Should i get an SG?

[CyanShayan]

Hey guys. You might have seen me post a few topics on the les paul forums too but its just that im tryin to get a completely new guitar setup. Im 14 and im in a band but everyone in my band says that my guitar sucks. I have always owned and played Epiphone les pauls but ive saved up £725 and i am currently trying to buy a Gibson. At the moment im playing an Epiphone Les Paul plustop pro with seymore duncans fitted in but my band says it sounds crap. The rythem guitarist of our band is playin a Gibson Les Paul Standard from 1986 which he got from his dad, and it sounds absolutely amazing compared to my LP. Now i was plannin on gettin another LP but i was looking through Gibson's site and i saw some pretty descent SGs for very good prices but ive never owned an SG but ive read reviews and they all say that they are pretty good but i wanna get your opinions on SGs. Please reply ;-)

[capmaster]

There is nothing wrong with an Epiphone Plustop. I know several of them and recently bought an Epiphone 1960s Tribute Plus which is not bad at all - I wouldn't have bought it already owning several Gibson Les Pauls and SGs. Did you try to refine or to have refined the setup, especially strings, neck and intonation adjustments? You can get the most out of any good instrument only if it is in an overall good shape. I don't know which Seymour Duncan replacement pickups you use but the stock pickups of Epiphone guitars are not bad at all - at least I didn't find any. Of course strings, pickups and string action also are a matter of taste, but neck and intonation adjustments have to be perfect.

 

Buying an SG is basically a good idea. SGs are great guitars as I know by experience. However, I would try to improve my guitar's adjustment first before I made a decision.

[CyanShayan]

There is nothing wrong with an Epiphone Plustop. I know several of them and recently bought an Epipone 1960s Tribute Plus which is not bad at all - I wouldn't have bought it already owning several Gibson Les Pauls and SGs. Did you try to refine or to have refined the setup, especially strings, neck and intonation adjustments? You can get the most out of any good instrument only if it is in an overall good shape. I don't know which Seymour Duncan replacement pickups you use but the stock pickups of Epiphone guitars are not bad at all - at least I didn't find any. Of course strings, pickups and string action also are a matter of taste, but neck and intonation adjustment have to be perfect.

 

Buying an SG is basically a good idea. SGs are great guitars as I know by experience. However, I would try to refine my guitar's adjustment first before I made a decision.

 

Thanks for the reply dude

 

Ive tried everything with my LP. It just doesnt live up to my bands sound expectations. Ive tried gettin with a better sound with all my guitars (all of them being les pauls), these guitars are the following

 

1: Les Paul 100

2: Les Paul Studio

3. Les Paul Ultra III

4. Les Paul Standard

5. Les Paul Standard Plustop Pro

 

None of them can get a good lead guitar sound as long as a Gibson is being used for Rhythm. Any other Ideas?

[capmaster]

Thanks for the reply dude

 

Ive tried everything with my LP. It just doesnt live up to my bands sound expectations. Ive tried gettin with a better sound with all my guitars (all of them being les pauls), these guitars are the following

 

1: Les Paul 100

2: Les Paul Studio

3. Les Paul Ultra III

4. Les Paul Standard

5. Les Paul Standard Plustop Pro

 

None of them can get a good lead guitar sound as long as a Gibson is being used for Rhythm. Any other Ideas?

You have a nice stable of guitars. Could it be that your amp's or effects' setup or settings won't let your lead guitar cut through?

[Rabs]

Hmm it kinda depends..

 

I like the look of SGs but ive only ever played one that had me thinking twice.. Oddly enough it was an SG Faded which is one of the cheapest models.. But there was something about the way it played that just really got me.. I wasn't in the market for a new guitar so never bought it..

 

The other thing you have to know about SGs is a lot of them can be neck heavy and you get bad neck dive.. So if you get an SG make sure you try it with a strap and see how it balances.. Also SGs are often a bit more shrill than LPs as in have a brighter sound (being a flat solid body)... The reasons (I think) LPs sound so fat and wide is the body construction that has a cap (mahogany body, maple cap).

 

Something else you may want to look at is the LP Juniors.. They ROCK!! And are a great price.. These Junior Specials even have neck binding.

 

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Junior-Special-Humbucker.aspx

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Junior-Special-P90.aspx

 

As far as LPs go.. Studios are great (60s tributes) and the new LPJ is pretty nice too

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/LPJ.aspx

 

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-60s-Tribute.aspx

 

 

 

However.. As always, the best advice to give is that you go out there and play as many as you can..You will soon find what you like and what you don't.. Good hunting man

[capmaster]

... I like the look of SGs but ive only ever played one that had me thinking twice.. Oddly enough it was an SG Faded which is one of the cheapest models.. But there was something about the way it played that just really got me.. I wasn't in the market for a new guitar so never bought it..

 

The other thing you have to know about SGs is a lot of them can be neck heavy and you get bad neck dive.. So if you get an SG make sure you try it with a strap and see how it balances.. Also SGs are often a bit more shrill than LPs as in have a brighter sound (being a flat solid body)... The reasons (I think) LPs sound so fat and wide is the body construction that has a cap (mahogany body, maple cap). ...

Since I own several heavy and neck heavy guitars and basses, I meanwhile changed to these neckstraps

http://www.levysleathers.com/product;cat,837;item,548;Suede-Leather-MSS3

in tan colour which are comfortable and strongly suppress neck diving due to the grip of their backside. Furthermore, I found out that they are compatible to nitrocellulose finishes when pressed onto the guitar's top by the case cover 23+ hours per day.

 

As for the sound, when equipped with pickups of the same type it always seemed to me the way you described.

[manse]

Next time you rehearse, why not keep the same guitars, but swap amps / effects with your rhythm guitarist and see how that messes with the equation. Might not be the guitar at all. Might be the rest of the signal path...

 

(or... hate to suggest it, but the rhythm guy might just sound better because he is just a better player. Really talented guys can pick up a second rate guitar and a rubbish amp and still sound great....)

[capmaster]

Here's another point you could check out. For vocalists and soloists it could ease their work if the rhythm guitar amp is set to scooped mids, i. e. increased bass and treble and tweaked down midrange controls. But caution, please: Don't put up a fight with the bass player! I know it all well as I am guitar player and lead vocalist in one band, drummer and vocalist in another, and bass player and lead vocalist in a third one...

[charlie brown]

What do THEY (or YOU) mean, by "it Sounds like ****?!" That's pretty vague! Unless they can

be more specific, how can you possibly know what to do, to correct it. Too much bass, too much

mid, or treble, to distorted, not distorted enough, and IS it you guitar, or possibly your amp,

or amp settings, as other's here, have mentioned already? Switch guitars, only when you've

exhausted all other possiblilties, not just because your other guitar player has a Gibson. That

might be a marketer's wet dream, but it's otherwise pretty meaningless, unless you know exactly

what his will do, that your's won't, and "why!"

 

So, check your amp, play with the EQ, switch guitars, with your other guitarist, into your amp,

and/or your guitar into his, and even check out each others signal chain, and effects pedal

lineup, and how they're arranged, front to back. Also...be sure your lead (cord) isn't part

of the problem.

 

Last, how well do you know, and get along, with these guys? Are they constantly on your case?

Are you the best player, worst player, or "equal" with the others? Band politics, and the resulting

"carping," that can happen, may be as much at fault, as your guitar (tone, or playing).

 

Good Luck, truly...and, I hope it all works out for you, whatever you do!

 

CB

[JM2112]

First off, IMHO, It's your guitar, so you decide what sounds good.

 

Now, as far as the SG is concerned, I think they absolutely rock! It's simply the easiest playing guitar ever made, IMHO. I think the SG gives you more guitar for the money than any other guitar. Compared to a LP, it's very light, easy to handle, and great upper fret access. My SG Standard has the 490/498 pick ups, and I love it for hard rock tunes while I use my LP's for classic style rock and blues. I love my LP's, I really do, but I have more fun with the SG. Also, for the price of a new SG you could probably get a LP Studio, and don't hesitate to look at used LP's. Just use common sense and you might find a great used LP guitar at an even greater price.

 

Good luck whatever you decide and whatever guitar you choose. Just be sure to come back and post some pics of it...

[Dallastx]

Less effects and more mids. I have had people tell me that I sound like I don't use any and I have a 12 pedal pedal board.

 

The less effects and more mids, the more bite you get.

 

But what do I know, been playing for 47 years..

D

[cjsinla]

Thanks for the reply dude

 

Ive tried everything with my LP. It just doesnt live up to my bands sound expectations. Ive tried gettin with a better sound with all my guitars (all of them being les pauls), these guitars are the following

 

1: Les Paul 100

2: Les Paul Studio

3. Les Paul Ultra III

4. Les Paul Standard

5. Les Paul Standard Plustop Pro

 

None of them can get a good lead guitar sound as long as a Gibson is being used for Rhythm. Any other Ideas?

 

You mentioned on your other thread that you are looking to get your first Gibson Les Paul. Are all you current Les Pauls Epiphones? Also, you did not mention what type of amp you are using and what type of amp your rhythm player is using.

 

To go on, to paraphrase your 'problem', is sounds like you are saying that the sound of your guitar does not cut through when you are playing leads and the rhythm guy is playing his Gibson Les Paul, is that true?

[CyanShayan]

Hey guys. Thanks for the great replies. They were really helpful. Coming back to some of the questions you guys asked... In terms of what amp im using (im not an expert on amps), im using my friends Marshal Stack with a Jim Dunlop Wah pedal as well as a Boss DS-1 distortion pedal goin through it. Also another question that was raised was that, do i get on with my band mates? I really dont know because the drummer and the bass player are my best friends but the vocalist and the rhythm guitarist on the other hand are very picky people. They always want that perfect GNR or ACDC sound which apparently "i cant get" with my gear. So i think im definitely gonna stick to gettin a Gibson, so now im just stuck between, LP or SG?

[CyanShayan]

You mentioned on your other thread that you are looking to get your first Gibson Les Paul. Are all you current Les Pauls Epiphones? Also, you did not mention what type of amp you are using and what type of amp your rhythm player is using.

 

To go on, to paraphrase your 'problem', is sounds like you are saying that the sound of your guitar does not cut through when you are playing leads and the rhythm guy is playing his Gibson Les Paul, is that true?

 

Yeah all my LPs were epiphones and yeah, my guitar just doesnt cut through with the gibson in the back

[CyanShayan]

What do THEY (or YOU) mean, by "it Sounds like ****?!" That's pretty vague! Unless they can

be more specific, how can you possibly know what to do, to correct it. Too much bass, too much

mid, or treble, to distorted, not distorted enough, and IS it you guitar, or possibly your amp,

or amp settings, as other's here, have mentioned already? Switch guitars, only when you've

exhausted all other possiblilties, not just because your other guitar player has a Gibson. That

might be a marketer's wet dream, but it's otherwise pretty meaningless, unless you know exactly

what his will do, that your's won't, and "why!"

 

So, check your amp, play with the EQ, switch guitars, with your other guitarist, into your amp,

and/or your guitar into his, and even check out each others signal chain, and effects pedal

lineup, and how they're arranged, front to back. Also...be sure your lead (cord) isn't part

of the problem.

 

Last, how well do you know, and get along, with these guys? Are they constantly on your case?

Are you the best player, worst player, or "equal" with the others? Band politics, and the resulting

"carping," that can happen, may be as much at fault, as your guitar (tone, or playing).

 

Good Luck, truly...and, I hope it all works out for you, whatever you do!

 

CB

 

Like i said, when i practicing alone with a backing track, my LP sounds amazing but when im rehearsing with the band, it sounds muddy or faded even though im using the same gear :-(

[stein]

I planned on just answering the question, "Should I get an SG", with a simple, "If you have to ask, YES". But after reading, I think you have other issues.

 

First off, like was said before, if you DON'T know why your sound "sucks", you really should find out before you go spending to fix it.

 

One thing I notice is you have an EPI with SD pups in it. Don't know if the pups suit you or what type they are, but in all honesty, one of the BEST ways to get good sound on the cheap IS an Epi with SD pups. Something tells me that isn't the problem.

 

A Marshall stack with a wah and an SD-1? In a small room I imagine? Hmm. I actually don't expect that to sound good. Don't know WHAT amp it is though.

 

I hope you don't take this wrong, but being 14, I am assuming this means you and your bandmates are beginners. What I am guessing, is that your other guitar player and bandmates might not know what "sound good" all that much more than you. I would look at it like you all have some stuff to learn. I mean that in a GOOD way. An upward sense.

 

Getting "good tone" while playing with a band takes practice, and experience. There's a lot more to it than just blasting the other guy when he is loud. But volume and band dynamics ARE part of it. I would consider that as the issue just as much as what stuff you are using, if not more.

 

The other thing, is getting along. I don't mean to suggest you are or aren't, but it's a deal in that you want to please the guys you are playing with, and their opinion does matter. But they have to offer more than just "your tone sucks", especially if you are using HIS amp. You gotta find a way to come together on that and actually solve the problem without letting it get into a pissing match.

 

I might start by letting the other members help and try and tweak your settings, adjust your gear (that you are using). If the other guitarist sounds good to all of you and you all agree, let HIM see what he can do with the rig you are playing through. Use it as an oppurtunity to no only be better freinds, but a learning experience for all, or both, or whoever.

 

I might ask what amps and gear is the rest of the band using. Not just "Marshall", but what models. I would also ask what SD pups you have in that particular guitar of yours, and also what pups and model guitar he has. Gibby makes lots.

[CyanShayan]

I planned on just answering the question, "Should I get an SG", with a simple, "If you have to ask, YES". But after reading, I think you have other issues.

 

First off, like was said before, if you DON'T know why your sound "sucks", you really should find out before you go spending to fix it.

 

One thing I notice is you have an EPI with SD pups in it. Don't know if the pups suit you or what type they are, but in all honesty, one of the BEST ways to get good sound on the cheap IS an Epi with SD pups. Something tells me that isn't the problem.

 

A Marshall stack with a wah and an SD-1? In a small room I imagine? Hmm. I actually don't expect that to sound good. Don't know WHAT amp it is though.

 

I hope you don't take this wrong, but being 14, I am assuming this means you and your bandmates are beginners. What I am guessing, is that your other guitar player and bandmates might not know what "sound good" all that much more than you. I would look at it like you all have some stuff to learn. I mean that in a GOOD way. An upward sense.

 

Getting "good tone" while playing with a band takes practice, and experience. There's a lot more to it than just blasting the other guy when he is loud. But volume and band dynamics ARE part of it. I would consider that as the issue just as much as what stuff you are using, if not more.

 

The other thing, is getting along. I don't mean to suggest you are or aren't, but it's a deal in that you want to please the guys you are playing with, and their opinion does matter. But they have to offer more than just "your tone sucks", especially if you are using HIS amp. You gotta find a way to come together on that and actually solve the problem without letting it get into a pissing match.

 

I might start by letting the other members help and try and tweak your settings, adjust your gear (that you are using). If the other guitarist sounds good to all of you and you all agree, let HIM see what he can do with the rig you are playing through. Use it as an oppurtunity to no only be better freinds, but a learning experience for all, or both, or whoever.

 

I might ask what amps and gear is the rest of the band using. Not just "Marshall", but what models. I would also ask what SD pups you have in that particular guitar of yours, and also what pups and model guitar he has. Gibby makes lots.

 

Hey man. Thanks for the reply. Im on holiday right now so i can look at the amp and tell u what model it is. All i know is that its a marshal but ive got no idea what model it is. Both of our guitars are also using Slash Seymore Duncan pickups so im completely lost. All 5 of us had a skype meeting this morning discussing "my tone" and they all say i should drop the DS-1 and just crank up a bit and should also use my LP Ultra III which has the stock pickups instead of mp LP Standard. They also gave me tons of amp settings to use, so im gonna go and try them out with them when im back and hopefully i can get a better sound without buying a new guitar but overall i wouldnt mind buying a Gibson as i ive always wanted one :-)

[CyanShayan]

Next time you rehearse, why not keep the same guitars, but swap amps / effects with your rhythm guitarist and see how that messes with the equation. Might not be the guitar at all. Might be the rest of the signal path...

 

(or... hate to suggest it, but the rhythm guy might just sound better because he is just a better player. Really talented guys can pick up a second rate guitar and a rubbish amp and still sound great....)

 

Thanks for reply dude. Im not sure if hes better than me or not but we switched guitars and amps and gear and it sounded pretty good with me playin the gibson and him playin the Epi without the DS-1 and i was using the same marshal amp but being him, he wouldnt let me use his Gibson for rehershals so its definetly a prob with my guitar. Basically, if he would just let me use his guitar, we would sound awsome

[sg50]

I think you need to put a song on Youtube so we can hear what the problem is. I would bet that this is not a gear problem.

[CyanShayan]

I think you need to put a song on Youtube so we can hear what the problem is. I would bet that this is not a gear problem.

 

Like i say dude, when im playin a Gibson, no complaints from band mates but when the Epi is in my hands, they always complain. I on the other hand think that the Epi sounds great and find no probs but the rythem guitarist is like, "go f****** buy yourself a Gibson then rock out cause the Epi isnt cuttin in".

 

BTW - been playin for 4 years and have alot of playin experience so its 100% not a prob with me

[cjsinla]

Yeah all my LPs were epiphones and yeah, my guitar just doesnt cut through with the gibson in the back

 

It's been said already, might be a problem with band dynamics, too. In my last band, the rhythm player kept kicking into overdrive when it was time for me to take a lead and that was burying me in the mix. You might need some type of boost when it's time for you to step out. I started using an OCD pedal recently to push me more up front for leads.

 

Also, some amps do sound better than others or may sound fine at home, My experience has been that sometimes finding the sweet spot on the amp makes all the difference in the world and it is a little less about the type of pickup. I believe you said that his amp sounds better even with your guitar. He might be letting you use the crappier amp.

[CyanShayan]

It's been said already, might be a problem with band dynamics, too. In my last band, the rhythm player kept kicking into overdrive when it was time for me to take a lead and that was burying me in the mix. You might need some type of boost when it's time for you to step out. I started using an OCD pedal recently to push me more up front for leads.

 

Also, some amps do sound better than others or may sound fine at home, My experience has been that sometimes finding the sweet spot on the amp makes all the difference in the world and it is a little less about the type of pickup. I believe you said that his amp sounds better even with your guitar. He might be letting you use the crappier amp.

 

YeH well i mean all the band members arnt very experianced. The rythem guitarist has been playin for 1 year, the bass guitarist has been playin for 1.5 years and the drummer has been playin for 2-3 years and as for me, ive been rocking since i was 10 (playin for 4 years) so we are all technically ametures and we can only play simple things without messin them up. We can play stuff like "sweet child o mine" perfectly but when we tried hittin off" Paradise City", the timing was way off and i think the bass player was just hittin random notes at one point. Same with "Civil War" and "Shoot to Thrill" so overall i think the band is doing bad themselves but just want to blame it on someone. Well thanks for your help guys. Ill prob just get an Gibson LP only for the reason that ive wanted one for a while and not that my band mates say i need to get one. :P

[manse]

Thanks for reply dude. Im not sure if hes better than me or not but we switched guitars and amps and gear and it sounded pretty good with me playin the gibson and him playin the Epi without the DS-1 and i was using the same marshal amp but being him, he wouldnt let me use his Gibson for rehershals so its definetly a prob with my guitar. Basically, if he would just let me use his guitar, we would sound awsome

 

Hey Man, sounds like you're working it out for yourself..... this stuff isn't easy. But one thing: If he sounded better without the DS-1, maybe you will too?

 

b.t.w. The other guitar player in my band has 2 Clapton strats, a cool Blackstar 50w valve combo, some lovely Catalinbread pedals ...... but his tone always sounds dull to me.... I want to reach over and flick his selector switch over and max out his gain.... but we been buddies for 30 years, he plays in time and in tune....and when you play back the tape, all the guitars are sat there in the mix... at the end of the day, it works. Maybe you need to get a practice sesion recorded and see how it all sounds - you might be suprised. There is a hell of a difference as to what sounds good loud in a practice room, quiet in a bedroom, good solo or good as part of the mix. Get someone to tape you all playing, using some half decent kit and all have a listen.

 

Also remember, this "tone" is stuff that us guitar players go crazy about, but I bet if you recorded a band session and played it to the next guy or girl in the street, they would probably think the guitars all sounded the same,,,

[AlanH]

Thanks for reply dude. Im not sure if hes better than me or not but we switched guitars and amps and gear and it sounded pretty good with me playin the gibson and him playin the Epi without the DS-1 and i was using the same marshal amp but being him, he wouldnt let me use his Gibson for rehershals so its definetly a prob with my guitar. Basically, if he would just let me use his guitar, we would sound awsome

 

Am I correct in saying that you played his Gibson LP through some other amp he uses and not the Marshall stack he lets you use? If you're both using LPs with similar (Seymour Duncan) pickups I would say that it's an amp/signal chain problem rather than a guitar problem. I'm guessing either his Marshall head is a solid state amp which won't give you those sweet AC/DC/GnR tones you seek or, if it is a valve amp, you're not able to get the master volume cranked high enough to achieve that sweet spot and that the DS-1 pedal doesn't simulate that tone from a very clean amp setting.

 

If I'm right in either case you might think about investing, say, £350 of your £725 budget on a 15 Watt (ish) lunchbox style valve amp head such as an Orange Tiny Terror and a little EQ pedal which can be used as either a volume boost and/or tone shaper to dial in your tone. The SD-1 can also be used to boost and over-drive that breaking up valve tone. All you then need to do is save another £100 or so to get yourself a Gibson SG Special Faded (£480 @ Thomann currently.)

 

Before you spend anything try that Gibson through the amp and signal chain that you are currently using and tweak that. If you still can't find the tone you seek then it will prove that the guitar is not the problem.

[capmaster]

In my first band where I was vocalist, percussionist and technician, one of our two guitarists played the 1978 Gibson SG Standard I later bought used from him in 1982. His setup was a Boss DS-1 followed by a 50 watts Marshall Lead non-master volume amp similar to the present 1987X model, and one 4 x 12" cabinet like the actual MR1960AX. As soon as he turned on the cranked-up DS-1, his SG just didn't cut through. OK, the SG's pups were loaded down severely by the poorly designed control circuit of that time - the stock tone pots were 100 kOhms -, and the amp provided distortion depending on volume and actual output power only. But in the end we found settings with less overdrive through the DS-1 and thus left more natural dynamic which resulted in more bite of the attack.

 

On the other hand, there might be guitars that simply don't cut through. One of my actual bandmates once played a PRS Custom 22 Moon. It was a fine guitar that time we were only three, and he played the only lead guitar while I was playing bass with a third pal on drums. As soon as we had found a bass player, I turned to playing lead guitar again, and no matter what guitar model I played and what settings I used from absolutely clean to heavily overdriven, the PRS of my pal either was too loud, or it got lost. We experimented a lot, swapping of our entire setup included, but nothing seemed to help. So he played his Fender Stratocaster exclusively for several years and without any sound problems.

 

One day we asked him why he never had his PRS with him anymore, and he told us that he had traded it a long time ago. He said it seemed to be a good guitar for a single guitar player but obviously not within a band with two guitarists. I think we will never know if perhaps it was due to its pots, but it was not because of the strings I believe - he played the same on both guitars. He always used and still uses nickel roundwound strings that provide much lows and remarkable brilliance, but weak mids. I do prefer the bright and powerful sound of roundwound chrome strings on all my guitars and use .010" to .046" on all guitars with Floyd Rose vibratos, .011" to .050" with plain G3 on all hardtail solidbodies, and .012" to .054" on my rare semi solid with F-holes and through neck.