Gibson Guitar Board: J-50 ADJ - Gibson Guitar Board

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J-50 ADJ another ebay fantasy description

#1 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:50 PM

How's this for a misleading description, from someone who represents himself as a Nashville dealer, no less? Did you know that a late-60's J-50 ADJ was one built with Advanced Jumbo characteristics, rather than an adjustable bridge model? LOL!

I did send him a terse but polite message asking him to do his homework and fix his listing. We'll see if anything happens. For some reason, this type of stuff really frosts me.

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#2 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:48 PM

So, I heard back from this guy, who tells me I'm full of it, and this guitar never had an adjustable bridge. He also said the Gibson Acoustic forum is full of misinformation like this.

Anyone have an opinion on this?

#3 User is offline   jedzep 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:49 PM

I did the same, Nick, and got an equally terse (indignant) reply assuring me he got it all straight. Go fig.
I may not be good lookin', but at least I ain't got no money.

#4 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:57 PM

View Postjedzep, on 23 April 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

I did the same, Nick, and got an equally terse (indignant) reply assuring me he got it all straight. Go fig.



Yeah, his reply to me was pretty indignant as well. He says that he was the Gibson web editor for five years, and that ADJ never meant "adjustable bridge". I have a bit of trouble accepting that.

#5 User is offline   ParlourMan 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:59 PM

Clearly nobody here has a clue and this gentleman is clearly in the right. I've just no idea what ye's were thinking in the first place...
http://www.youtube.c...ser/TheAyeTunes

Lets all have a wee cuddle.

#6 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:06 PM

View PostParlourMan, on 23 April 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Clearly nobody here has a clue and this gentleman is clearly in the right. I've just no idea what ye's were thinking in the first place...


pot-stirrer..... [biggrin]

It's a miracle: most models with adjustable bridges in the 1960's got "ADJ" stamped next to the model designation, and all this time it meant it was built with "Advanced Jumbo" characteristics, even though that model had been out of production for 25 years when these guitars were built? What was I thinking?

I guess the fact that all these guitars with "advanced jumbo" characteristics also had adjustable bridges was pure coincidence...... (although he claims this J-50 never had an adjustable bridge).

#7 User is offline   RichG 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:28 PM

Same guy selling this. This one has the adjustable bridge " which many people change"

http://www.ebay.com/...=item19db6483b5

On another note, I saw B25Ns new and never saw the logo on the pick guard, but I may not have seen one new made after 1966. Was this original to this guitar?

I have a picture of me playing a B25n in 1966 that does not have that logo. I'm pretty sure the guitar was new then.

Rich
Gibsons: 2011 AJ with aftermarket Trance system; 2012 Sheryl Crow Southern Jumbo; 1939 J-55
Martins: D18GE; Martin Custom OM42 Adi/Madi; 2008 Martin 00-18H Geoff Muldaur
Other: 1966 Guild D40; Voyage Air VAMD 04

#8 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:05 PM

View PostRichG, on 23 April 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Same guy selling this. This one has the adjustable bridge " which many people change"

http://www.ebay.com/...=item19db6483b5

On another note, I saw B25Ns new and never saw the logo on the pick guard, but I may not have seen one new made after 1966. Was this original to this guitar?

I have a picture of me playing a B25n in 1966 that does not have that logo. I'm pretty sure the guitar was new then.

Rich


The pickguard with the Gibson "boob" logo like this was used in 1968, but not on all models. I've also seen '68s without it.

#9 User is offline   ParlourMan 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:20 PM

See... This seller is a genius and everyone in here is talking out of a hole... Posted Image I'm off to make up some random stuff about one of my guitars, sell it on ebay and tell everybody you lot know noting.
http://www.youtube.c...ser/TheAyeTunes

Lets all have a wee cuddle.

#10 User is offline   Red 333 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:23 PM

Gibson hadn't made or marketed an Advanced Jumbo in nearly thirty years when the guitar in the eBay listing was made, so why on earth would the ADJ stand for Advanced Jumbo? What a liar. Not to mention that except for body shape, the AJ doesn't share any specs with the J-45. Different top bracing (usually), back bracing, scale, bridge, inlays, type of back and side wood (typically), etc. What a hoot that listing is. Shame on the seller, whose lengths to obfuscate the truth are certain proof that he/she knows better.

Red 333

#11 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:30 PM

View PostParlourMan, on 23 April 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

See... This seller is a genius and everyone in here is talking out of a hole... Posted Image I'm off to make up some random stuff about one of my guitars, sell it on ebay and tell everybody you lot know noting.


The scary part is he claims that Don Ruffatto at Gibson Montana confirmed this, and that "many Advanced Jumbo models without adjustable bridges had "Adj" on the back cleat". I never knew any AJ models were built WITH adjustable bridges, but as he says, what do I know?

He also says he wrote much of the descriptive copy for various models on the Gibson website, which might partly explain why so much of that copy is completely wrong.....

AND, he describes the B25-N he has for sale as "a cannon". At least he didn't say it "plays like butter". [biggrin]

#12 User is offline   davenumber2 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:48 PM

"This is a Gibson J-50 ADJ from 1968. Inside the soundhole you can see "J50ADJ" stamped on one of the braces, and depending on your source the "ADJ" either means "Adjustable Bridge" or "Advanced Jumbo". Personally, we go with whatever the Gibson Customer Service department tells us, and they tell anyone that calls that "ADJ" stands for "Advanced Jumbo" so that's what we'll go with."

Was this in the original ad copy or did he change it to this?

#13 User is offline   RichG 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:53 PM

View Postj45nick, on 23 April 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

The pickguard with the Gibson "boob" logo like this was used in 1968, but not on all models. I've also seen '68s without it.


Thanks Nick.

Rich
Gibsons: 2011 AJ with aftermarket Trance system; 2012 Sheryl Crow Southern Jumbo; 1939 J-55
Martins: D18GE; Martin Custom OM42 Adi/Madi; 2008 Martin 00-18H Geoff Muldaur
Other: 1966 Guild D40; Voyage Air VAMD 04

#14 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:53 PM

View Postdavenumber2, on 23 April 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

"This is a Gibson J-50 ADJ from 1968. Inside the soundhole you can see "J50ADJ" stamped on one of the braces, and depending on your source the "ADJ" either means "Adjustable Bridge" or "Advanced Jumbo". Personally, we go with whatever the Gibson Customer Service department tells us, and they tell anyone that calls that "ADJ" stands for "Advanced Jumbo" so that's what we'll go with."

Was this in the original ad copy or did he change it to this?


That's what it said when I responded to it. Of course, given the placement of teardrop pickguards on some models, I sometimes wonder if the folks at Gibson even know their own company history...... [biggrin]

#15 User is offline   Red 333 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:00 PM

View Postj45nick, on 23 April 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

The scary part is he claims that Don Ruffatto at Gibson Montana confirmed this, and that "many Advanced Jumbo models without adjustable bridges had "Adj" on the back cleat". I never knew any AJ models were built WITH adjustable bridges, but as he says, what do I know?

He also says he wrote much of the descriptive copy for various models on the Gibson website, which might partly explain why so much of that copy is completely wrong.....

AND, he describes the B25-N he has for sale as "a cannon". At least he didn't say it "plays like butter". [biggrin]


I have heard some at Gibson use the term "advanced jumbo" to describe the slope shouldered body shape itself, and not exclusively in reference to the Advance Jumbo model--more as away to differentiate the slope shouldered models (which are jumbos in Gibson terminology) from the J-200-sized/shaped Super Jumbos.. Epiphone does this, too. In fact, their slope shouldered dreads usually have the AJ prefix (for example, AJ-200, AJ-45, AJ-500M), to distinguish them from square-shouldered dreadnoughts, which usually carry the DR prefix. Even still, the poster is willfully misrepresenting what he selling, and he is distorting what Don may have said.

Red 333

#16 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:14 PM

View PostRed 333, on 23 April 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

I have heard some at Gibson use the term "advanced jumbo" to describe the slope shouldered body shape itself, and not exclusively in reference to the Advance Jumbo model--more as away to differentiate the slope shouldered models (which are jumbos in Gibson terminology) from the J-200-sized/shaped Super Jumbos.. Epiphone does this, too. In fact, their slope shouldered dreads usually have the AJ prefix (for example, AJ-200, AJ-45, AJ-500M), to distinguish them from square-shouldered dreadnoughts, which usually carry the DR prefix. Even still, the poster is willfully misrepresenting what he selling.

Red 333



Given that the Advanced Jumbo was not the first Gibson round-shouldered jumbo, it seems odd that they would refer this body style this way, particularly given that so many of the AJ features don't carry over to other slope models.

I still so no reason that the "ADJ" designation should mean anything other than "adjustable".

Of course, the bridge on this seller's J-50 is exactly the same bridge used with the adjustable saddle, even down to the size and shape of the saddle cutout. Here's an identical 1968 bridge, but with an adjustable saddle:

Posted Image

Has anyone here ever seen this bridge type with an original, fat non-adjustable saddle on a 1968 J-45/50?

#17 User is offline   Red 333 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:25 PM

View Postj45nick, on 23 April 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

Given that the Advanced Jumbo was not the first Gibson round-shouldered jumbo, it seems odd that they would refer this body style this way, particularly given that so many of the AJ features don't carry over to other slope models.




It would have been the first with tapered sides. The OJ, Trojan, and Hawaiian models that preceded the AJ generally had sides of approximately the same height at both shoulder and lower bout. All the slopes that came after the AJ derive from its lower-at-the-shoulders, deeper-at-the-lower-bout template, more or less.

By the way, I have had conversations with Gibson employees who refer to the x bracing on a slope shouldered guitar as "advanced bracing," but when questioned as to whether they mean the same pattern and location as the Advanced Jumbos' or True Vintages' slopes, they say "no," so it seem "advanced" is sometimes used in a generic sense.

Red 333

#18 User is offline   Yorick 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:27 PM

We know that ADJ was stamped on guitars meant to get the adjustable bridge. It has nothing to do with Advanced Jumbo.

It doesn't matter what Gibson may or may not say. They're the ones who put a banner on the new J 35.

I'm with Nick--this chaps me.
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#19 User is offline   Red 333 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:29 PM

View PostYorick, on 23 April 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:



It doesn't matter what Gibson may or may not say. They're the ones who put a banner on the new J 35.




Ha, ha, ha. GREAT point!

#20 User is offline   jedzep 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:17 PM

Still, it may sell at far more than it's 'market vintage value'. Never overestimate the intelligence of the masses. I think the para-phrased saying pre-dates PT Barnum, but he gets the credit. Ebay ain't the Boy Scouts, when it comes down to it.
I may not be good lookin', but at least I ain't got no money.

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