Standard premium plus identification

[lovethosegibsons]

Quick question... When did gibson quit putting "p's" under the bridge pickup to denote a plus or premium plus standard? I've had several plus's and premium plus's and still have a 05 standard premium plus which is labeled under the bridge pickup with "LPPP". I'm asking cause couple weeks ago I bought a brand new 2013 standard premium plus from guitar center and yesterday I finally put new strings on it and I always look under the pickups to see whats written in the cavity. Under the bridge pickup there are no "P's" like the other plus's I've had and seen. It only has the model number written under the bridge pickup where you would normally see a "LPP" or "LPPP" type letters. The model number on mine is "lpnstophbch" which is whats written in the cavity under my bridge pickup. Under the neck pickup is correct with just a "HB" written in it.

 

I did contact gibson but as always they never answer my questions and I just got a reply saying it was a 2013 standard premium plus. But I see nothing on the guitar that tells me its a premium plus standard like you would usually see on one. And the "N" in my model number I have no clue what that stands for but I know what the rest of it means... So now I'm wondering if what I bought really was a premium plus. Thanks for any insight to this problem.

[StijnV]

We simply don't keep track of such things.

 

This question will probably be answered when there is someone chiming in here with a 2006 or 2007 Les Paul Standard premium plus !

[capmaster]

As far as I know the "N" stands for "new" such as NTD = New Traditional or NST = New Standard. There obviously occur new traditions as well as new standards

 

Since I never took a look into the pickup cavities of my LPs, I think I will do this the next times when changing strings, and so the neck will be a few minutes without balancing the truss rod with string tension. I usually change them one by one.

 

The only one of my newer guitars I looked into all the pickup cavities was my SG Supra when I replaced the black pickup rings with cream ones, and there was nothing written. However, the Long Neck Tenon under the neck pickup looks very impressive.

[GDC]

I can't help ya. but I will chime in to say I found this thread looking for the identical information you seek. Gibson's penchant for making a gazillion different options for a model so they can upcharge for each option would seem to demand that they would "simply keep up with such things" to help their customers' identify the appropriate re-sale value of their instruemnts.

[BigKahune]

... I see nothing on the guitar that tells me its a premium plus standard ... So now I'm wondering if what I bought really was a premium plus. ...

 

Gibson's modern serial number is what identifies the guitar. In Gibson's records, which they do not make public, modern serial numbers are tied to their corresponding guitar's model, top, finish and hardware information. If you call or email Gibson with a serial number, they can provide the model, top, finish and hardware information recorded for that serial number. Any other production notations found on the guitar are not official means of recording information, and tend to change over time.

 

Is there something about the figuring that makes you think it isn't a premium plus top?

 

As has already been commented, that model number should probably be - LPNSTDPHBCH

 

And probably translate to - LP(Les Paul) .N(New) .STD(STandarD) .P(Premium top) .HB(HoneyBurst) .CH(Chrome Hardware)

 

 

.

[capmaster]

I can't help ya. but I will chime in to say I found this thread looking for the identical information you seek. Gibson's penchant for making a gazillion different options for a model so they can upcharge for each option would seem to demand that they would "simply keep up with such things" to help their customers' identify the appropriate re-sale value of their instruemnts.

There may come out the opposite, too, i. e. a discount due to a downgrade after carving and finishing. My HB LP with the carton label saying 2012 Std Premium Plus has been a single item over 10% cheaper when I bought it in July, 2012. The bridge PU cavity bottom says LPNSTDP which is one P less than on the label - I read it ten minutes ago.

 

Thomann had been charged less for it by Gibson as they told me, and they charged me less, too. I appreciate the unsteady figuring somewhere between flame, tiger and quilted maple, I don't bother several brown grains along the top, and so this is OK for me.

 

So I think the documentation at Gibson worked well, it did at Thomann, too, and twice it worked despite the wrong label on the package.

[GDC]

Hmmm I misread the original post. If it has the entire model number written in the cavity, then it is identified, isn't it? I didn't read the post carefully eough. But what is the meaning of the post that Gibson simply doesn't keep up with such things? If they either stamp the guitar with the model desgnation or keep a record tying the serial number to the model designation, then they do keep up with such things, no? And it would appear that they do both.

[GDC]

That sure makes sense, Cap. I'm not all that into the grade of the flame - or the figure. In fact I bought one that has less desireable figure than another one had on thewall right beside it, because I liked it's looks better, though no one else probably will. But for those who are into it that info has value. And since grading flame is in the eye of the manufacturer, it would seem important to know that info - as in your case making down 10%.

[capmaster]

Hmmm I misread the original post. If it has the entire model number written in the cavity, then it is identified, isn't it? I didn't read the post carefully eough. But what is the meaning of the post that Gibson simply doesn't keep up with such things? If they either stamp the guitar with the model desgnation or keep a record tying the serial number to the model designation, then they do keep up with such things, no? And it would appear that they do both.

I agree. Maybe they just don't make it public for any reason. Anyway, since there was no official Std model in 2012 with an AA grade top, and mine seems to be rated as AA only afterwards, there was left no other way that time. In 2013, there are AA and AAA grade models listed, so this shouldn't be an issue anymore.

[GDC]

Ah.. I see. So in 2012, the same model could have come with one of two grades of tops?

[capmaster]

That sure makes sense, Cap. I'm not all that into the grade of the flame - or the figure. In fact I bought one that has less desireable figure than another one had on thewall right beside it, because I liked it's looks better, though no one else probably will. But for those who are into it that info has value. And since grading flame is in the eye of the manufacturer, it would seem important to know that info - as in your case making down 10%.

The manufacturer rating is one thing IMHO, the other one is the beauty in the eye of the beholder. I believe that the short term resale value may depend a bit more on the vendor's grading, but in the long run it may be more the beauty in the eye of the buyer, and I think that in his ears, too.

[GDC]

Same here, Cap. It all seems insignificant to me. But having spent many years buying and selling guitars, these insignificant things get picked up on by a lot of buyers who get it in their minds that one some such something is better - and thus more valuable - than the other. So it is of interest to a lot of buyers. In my mind it's not so much which one is better; rather, it's the ability to convincingly describe (and prove the description) of what I'm selling. When I bought this LP last night, the sales guy didn't know for sure exactly what it was. That's no knock on him - he's been there for years and I've bought 6 or so guitars from him. He knows guitars very well and couldn't specifically identify a les paul on the wall. Just saying if I ever sell this one, it'll drive me nuts trying to answer the simple question "Which Les Paul is it". So I guess I'll just have to keep it. :)

[capmaster]

Ah.. I see. So in 2012, the same model could have come with one of two grades of tops?

Yes, there only were Standard 2012 LPs with AAA tops on the Gibson webpage, and on the Thomann price list, too. My 2012 LP Std was listed under the same item # as the AAA grade ones but sold for less. Wonder how it was done.

 

Interestingly however, the price difference in 2013 between AA and AAA tops ranges about 4 to 7% only. Looking at several of each, and taking a look at my own LP Traditional 2013 with an AA top, makes me think there is a thin line between these ratings, and it may be difficult to exactly define it. Looks may change radically with lighting and viewing angles. My Trad 2013 AA top varies from looking next to plain up to showing sheer hell fires, depending on light and view directions only.

[BigKahune]

.

Here's some visuals I have stashed on flame grades. The "A" letter grading is for amount and quality of figuring (flame/curly, quilt, birdseye, etc), not the quality of the finish or tonal quality of the wood. The amount of figuring in the top is sometimes a crap shoot. First, there can be a lot of variance in each grade - A, AA, AAA, AAAA, AAAAA. Second, if Gibson doesn't specify the grade and just uses the term "figured", there can be a much wider variance in the figuring between guitar tops. If you order a figured top sight unseen, you could end up with a top you're not satisfied with, so it's best to buy in person; but retailers that provide good pictures of the guitars they sell works.

 

A - has a little figuring,

 

AA (aka 'Plus' top) - has pronounced figuring but with some spottiness from bald spots and figuring run outs in the center and the edges. This one graded by Gibson as an AA Plus top.

 

 

AAA (aka 'Premium Plus' top) - nicely figured with a few run outs, but mostly the figuring goes to the edges. This is the top of an LP I have that was graded by Gibson as AAA -

 

 

AAAA - figuring goes out to the edges with good constrast between the light and dark bands. No run outs or bald spots.

 

 

AAAAA - is reserved for pieces with the most beautiful and highest amount of figuring - this one was graded AAAAA by Gibson. You can see it can be difficult to detect much of a difference between AAAA and AAAAA.

 

 

 

This beautiful top is known as a plain top - no figuring and no figuring grade.

[capmaster]

Same here, Cap. It all seems insignificant to me. But having spent many years buying and selling guitars, these insignificant things get picked up on by a lot of buyers who get it in their minds that one some such something is better - and thus more valuable - than the other. So it is of interest to a lot of buyers. In my mind it's not so much which one is better; rather, it's the ability to convincingly describe (and prove the description) of what I'm selling. When I bought this LP last night, the sales guy didn't know for sure exactly what it was. That's no knock on him - he's been there for years and I've bought 6 or so guitars from him. He knows guitars very well and couldn't specifically identify a les paul on the wall. Just saying if I ever sell this one, it'll drive me nuts trying to answer the simple question "Which Les Paul is it". So I guess I'll just have to keep it. :)

Same at Thomann. They just did know it was cheaper but didn't know why. I don't think that someone of the account staff would have known - I believe they see prices only, no reasons for them. The sales people would have had to look under the bridge pickup to clarify. However, I did so today

[capmaster]

.

Here's some visuals I have stashed on flame grades. The "A" letter grading is for amount and quality of figuring (flame/curly, quilt, birdseye, etc), not the quality of the finish or tonal quality of the wood. The amount of figuring in the top is sometimes a crap shoot. First, there can be a lot of variance in each grade - A, AA, AAA, AAAA, AAAAA. Second, if Gibson doesn't specify the grade and just uses the term "figured", there can be a much wider variance in the figuring between guitar tops. If you order a figured top sight unseen, you could end up with a top you're not satisfied with, so it's best to buy in person; but retailers that provide good pictures of the guitars they sell works.

 

A - has a little figuring,

 

AA (aka 'Plus' top) - has pronounced figuring but with some spottiness from bald spots and figuring run outs in the center and the edges. This one graded by Gibson as an AA Plus top.

 

 

AAA (aka 'Premium Plus' top) - nicely figured with a few run outs, but mostly the figuring goes to the edges. This is the top of an LP I have that was graded by Gibson as AAA -

 

 

AAAA - figuring goes out to the edges with good constrast between the light and dark bands. No run outs or bald spots.

 

 

AAAAA - is reserved for pieces with the most beautiful and highest amount of figuring - this one was graded AAAAA by Gibson. You can see it can be difficult to detect much of a difference between AAAA and AAAAA.

 

 

 

This beautiful top is known as a plain top - no figuring and no figuring grade.

Thank you, BigKahune, for your very informative post and very demonstrative pictures. They make me think that my Gibson guitars were appropriately rated by the manufacturer.

[lovethosegibsons]

Thanks for the replies all... I guess since gibson changed the way they do the model and serial id's on new guitars I have no clue cause it's been few years since I've bought new one as I like buying older models. I've had several "plus's" and "premium plus's" and they were all easy to tell by looking under the bridge pickup... The 2013 model I just bought looks more like a "plus" top instead of a "premium plus" top and that was one of the reasons I emailed gibson in the first place to make sure. Not that is mattered as I wasn't even planning on buying a new model of a les paul standard after playing craploads of them never to find a good playing one. Can't stand the weight reduction for one thing. But it looked nice hanging on the wall and I played it and knew instantly I had to have it so I bought it retail price on the spot. Just one of those times when you know it's a good one. I never even tried it with an amp at the store because it sounded so good without one. Other than having to have a new nut put on it here next week when I can get up to nashville I love it. This is the first "new" les paul I've bought since 05 but I have many les pauls that I buy used but this one still has that new car smell and I hardly take it out of the case cause I want that smell to last for awhile lol. I'm certainly not new to flame top gibson's though as they are my favorites. Posting couple of pics of some of my flametops including the new HB standard.. Pics kinda sucks but no matter how I tilt the camera I can never capture the actual killer flame in these.

 

 

2013 standard premium plus honey burst

 

 

 

2005 standard premium plus cherry red

 

 

 

2002 dark wine red custom. My most favorite guitar and to me the best playing guitar I've ever played and very heavy. The flame in the pic just doesn't do it justice. Looks like there is bare spots and dark spots on it but there isn't, it's a very tight flame all way around almost looks holographic..

 

[GDC]

Beautiful guitars, lovethose. Very nice. I gather you don't install the pickguards?

[lovethosegibsons]

Beautiful guitars, lovethose. Very nice. I gather you don't install the pickguards?

 

 

Thanks.. I've never installed them for no other reason than I rather see more of the guitar. The custom and 05 standard were bought brand new and had holes for them already but the guards weren't attached and the 2013 doesn't have any holes since I don't think gibson does it anymore and leaves it up to the individual to do it. I don't have a sweeping type picking style so I never get scratches up and down the middle area to need one.

[GDC]

Think I'll leave mine off, too.

[BrentMcC]

I bought a standard with the new Etune (2014). I had originally bought a honey burst trad butdid not like the plain brown back on the Trad. they ordered a new tradhowever it was a cherry sunburst but not the same guitarthe electronics are not the same so they moved me up to a standard with the heritage cherry sunburst that I wanted however it came with an e tune which promptly broke in the middle of a gig about 14 days later. so it being broken they let me pull the only heritage cherry they had in the shop was happened to be a plus top. after getting it home and comparing pictures of my original Les Paul Standard my plus top looks like a aaa and my standard looked more l a AAAA. Now I'm not sure if I should return it

It for a better looking. Since I actually started out with the traditional and have moved up to steps without paying any extra money maybe I should just learn to live with the top that I have but for the money I still I'm not quite happy I guess I have 29 days to decide.the guys at GC RRT probably tired of me but for the kind of money gets in charges I think I should get what I want any opinions on this.

[rct]

You can say it isn't a AAA or AAAA all day if you want. There is no objective method whatsoever for grading the top woods of guitars. They are whatever the seller wants to call them. You can thank Paul Reed for that, in his efforts to fanicfy guitars and make guitar players feel like they had somethin better he started the race to the never ending bottom of how many A's you can get away with.

 

rct

[SoundMaster]

You can say it isn't a AAA or AAAA all day if you want. There is no objective method whatsoever for grading the top woods of guitars. They are whatever the seller wants to call them. You can thank Paul Reed for that, in his efforts to fanicfy guitars and make guitar players feel like they had somethin better he started the race to the never ending bottom of how many A's you can get away with.

 

rct

 

As usuAl, An educAted and concise post...you're the mAn...ooops r there AAAAA tops?

[rct]

I think Paul Reed has Private Reserve guitars with AAAAA tops. Or Tom Anderson. Onea them guys uses 5 A's.

 

rct

[Eracer_Team]

Eh?

I'm Canadian, Eh?

 

you can't have enough Eh's in it.

 

I can just see the Canadian grading of the guitars.... EhEhEhEhEh