capmaster Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 There seems to be trouble with the Axcess shaped neck joint of my Alex Lifeson Les Paul Axcess. Within only a few weeks, an opaque white ridge, presumably glue, grew right at the back side out of the neck/body junction and broke through the finish. The breaking edges on the initially smooth, sanded surface are relatively sharp, and so I felt badly scared when my left thumb accidentally ran into it yesterday. I rarely dig the comfort of the Axcess shaping since I just have one guitar providing it and don't want to become spoilt too much. Therefore it could have been that the glue slowly crept out without me realizing it for several weeks since I use to keep my left thumb over the neck heel. I know for sure that there never was a gap between neck and body, and there still seems to be none. There also is no change in neck angle, and there is nothing to be seen at the neck joint in the angle between neck and the bass side of the upper bout rib as well as in the cutaway. Don't know what I shall do now. Reports of similar problems and troubleshooting are appreciated as well as suggestions and ideas about the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjsinla Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Can you post a picture of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Here are two attempts to take pics of the AL 792's neck joint. Resolution is a bit poor, and obviously there is an automatic image colour correction beyond my control. I hope the problem translates a bit though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibSinCity Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Another issue is the last thing this model line needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 Another issue is the last thing this model line needs. This is sad, but true. I found things like ridges or cracks of small width and depth on many guitars when several decades old, but never on a relatively new one. As for my 1978 SG Std or my ca. 1973 L6-S, these things appear on headstocks and around the fretboard-top junctions, and so won't affect playability. In contrary, the Axcess shaping is a bad place for such things to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
665 Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I would try to report it to Gibson and get some answers. I wouldn't expect them to honor that warranty they gave you though... It seems like quality control is always going downhill at Gibson and to a lesser extent fender in the past decade or so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I would try to report it to Gibson and get some answers. I wouldn't expect them to honor that warranty they gave you though... It seems like quality control is always going downhill at Gibson and to a lesser extent fender in the past decade or so... Gibson customer service is, quite simply, second to none. All this stuff about quality going downhill. It's been said so much and yet there is no evidence at all. Get in touch. I'm sure they'll help you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Gibson customer service is, quite simply, second to none. All this stuff about quality going downhill. It's been said so much and yet there is no evidence at all. Get in touch. I'm sure they'll help you out. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I have had great experience with Gibson customer service. I would send them a letter with good quality pictures. If nothing else you will have the issue documented in case it continues to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I'm guessing that the the joint is a little wide there - that's what it looks like. And while that probably isn't a problem for the structural integrity of the joint, the glue that is exposed may be reacting with the finish - or just expanding out of the joint - and making some kind of residue. I'm not sure how you'd fix it. Maybe file it flat and put some kind of sealer on there and then refinish it? Or just file it flat and leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Gibson customer service is, quite simply, second to none. All this stuff about quality going downhill. It's been said so much and yet there is no evidence at all. Get in touch. I'm sure they'll help you out. +10000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 I'm surprised that the glue would not be dry by this time. if the glue holding the neck joint together isn't dry the neck would be unstable. did Gibson CS ever get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share Posted September 15, 2013 Since I bought it at Thomann and will be there within the next few weeks, I think I'll show it to them first and then decide what to do. I know of a "normal" neck joint LP owned by one of the servicemen there. Several months after the buy appeared a gap between upper bout and the back end of the neck heel. You can see the light shine through. Nothing else changed, and also didn't for years since then. It doesn't affect playability and tone, and so he leaves it as it is. In my case, however, it affects playability. We will see, and I keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twang Gang Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Seems odd in that the glue should have been dry and hardened 24 - 48 hours after the neck was set. My guess is that as the wood dried out a little there was a slight gap and the white stuff is a result of air/glue/finish chemical reaction? Will be interesting to see how Gibson resolves it - but you will need to send it back to them for any warranty repairs. Just so odd because of all the LP neck joints that are as much as 50 years old and rock solid. Best of luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 Thank you, Twang Gang. There is nothing to be seen or touched that compares to it on any other neck joint of my Gibsons up to now. I am curious what the Thomann servicemen will tell me. Luckily I didn't modify it myself but had the desired polarity (aka out-of-phase) switch for the neck pickup added by the Thomann service. I was so proud since this add makes that guitar a sonic all-purpose-weapon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn6490 Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 That does not look like glue. It looks like polish/compound got into the seam were the neck meets the body while the guitar was being polished on the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 That does not look like glue. It looks like polish/compound got into the seam were the neck meets the body while the guitar was being polished on the wheel. Thanks for your input, this seems sensible to me. I didn't think about this before. So you 'd think there happened a reaction of polish merged with finish with normal air humidity within a few months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn6490 Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Thanks for your input, this seems sensible to me. I didn't think about this before. So you 'd think there happened a reaction of polish merged with finish with normal air humidity within a few months? Any glue (if any) would have been cleaned off before the finish was applied. If the finish was applied over the glue it would have been a real mess. When buffing the guitar to a shine on the buffing wheel the wheel removes finish until the body is shiny. You can open any guitar and see residue from polishing. The residue you see on your guitar could have come from a guitar store employee buffing out fingerprints not the Gibson factory. You can also apply polish on a polish cloth and wipe the back of your Les Paul and you will see the same lines at the control cavity covers. It looks like it is just polish at the seam of the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn6490 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Also...You can see white lines like that at the seams on a car after it has been waxed and polished. Especially on a dark colored car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 There's some good news. Last Friday, I brought the guitar to the Thomann service, and the Master Luthier polished the neck joint. The ridges are gone now. In any other respect it just looks like before, i. e. there is something white at the neck joint. The Master Luthier said it could be glue but it wouldn't matter since there is no viewable or touchable gap. It feels absolutely even, and I am happy with it. :) Any glue (if any) would have been cleaned off before the finish was applied. If the finish was applied over the glue it would have been a real mess. When buffing the guitar to a shine on the buffing wheel the wheel removes finish until the body is shiny. You can open any guitar and see residue from polishing. The residue you see on your guitar could have come from a guitar store employee buffing out fingerprints not the Gibson factory. You can also apply polish on a polish cloth and wipe the back of your Les Paul and you will see the same lines at the control cavity covers. It looks like it is just polish at the seam of the neck. When looking at the fretboard where it joins the top on Gibson Les Paul guitars, there usually is some ripple on the finish surface of the top close to the fretboard. I think this is due to very small leftovers of glue. My 1978 S-G Standard shows it rather clearly, too, and it really looks like a mess a bit. It also can be seen on my 2011 L6S Silverburst although there is no binding. The poly finish of Epiphones seems to even out this a bit more, so it is less obvious on my Epi LP featuring a fretboard binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauloon Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 +10000 +100,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zewango Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Hello Zewango, and welcome here. I would want to welcome you after joining for a more cheerful reason. Looking at this kind of crack, I think it could have emerged the same way like on mine. I guess the differences in look are due to the layer of solid colour - I believe it's gun metal grey and translates a bit bright on the picture, isn't it? On my Axcess guitar it's still visible to the same extent as immediately after the luthier polished it, and the surface stayed clean and even, too. So at least there seems to be no change anymore, practically a solid state. Perhaps I was just lucky letting pass over ten weeks from realizing what happens and having it buffed out? Meanwhile I have my private theory on it. I believe when making these guitars they should wait some more time between neck set and shaving. Just a guess. By the way, what age is yours approximately? I couldn't tell exactly from the serial number of mine starting with AL for Alex Lifeson, but the laminated fretboard says it has to be from mid-2012. So it may have taken one to one-and-a-half years until the problem revealed itself. I owned the guitar for slightly more than six months that time. Good luck - I cross my fingers for you and your Les Paul Axcess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zewango Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 It is a 2014 and yes gun metal gray finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 It's always good to buy at a competent dealer. I experienced this with Thomann operating a Service Center certified by Gibson and a huge lot of other makers of musical instruments of all kinds as well as electronic gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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