zt3 + dropped heavy tuning/gauges

[martinriggs]

Hello. I was wondering if any of you have experiences with this guitar?

 

I'm interested in tuning it into a lower baritone tuning of C standard. Can this guitar handle it? Will it affect the transtrem system?

 

Thanks.

[Be.eM]

Hello. I was wondering if any of you have experiences with this guitar?

 

I'm interested in tuning it into a lower baritone tuning of C standard. Can this guitar handle it? Will it affect the transtrem system?

 

The short answer is yes - no - yes :D

 

For transposing to work correctly the jaws (holding the ball ends) need to be in certain pre-defined positions. This is the case if you're using calibrated strings (calibration refers to string length) in standard tuning. If you tune the guitar down, the jaws aren't in these positions, so you've still got a whammy, but no transposing tremolo.

 

Bernd

[martinriggs]

The short answer is yes - no - yes :D

 

For transposing to work correctly the jaws (holding the ball ends) need to be in certain pre-defined positions. This is the case if you're using calibrated strings (calibration refers to string length) in standard tuning. If you tune the guitar down, the jaws aren't in these positions, so you've still got a whammy, but no transposing tremolo.

 

Bernd

 

Ahh, the transposing thing isn't what i'm interested in that much anyway.

 

I just want to know if the guitar can handle the string tension, if you can fit baritone strings to it and if you can still use the whammy to bend chords that are in tune.

 

Can you specify these questions? Thanks a lot anyway...it's difficult to find info on this instrument.

[Be.eM]

Ahh, the transposing thing isn't what i'm interested in that much anyway.

 

I just want to know if the guitar can handle the string tension, if you can fit baritone strings to it and if you can still use the whammy to bend chords that are in tune.

 

 

Well, bending chords in tune is transposing. And this won't work. Apart from that, the transposing (a.k.a. "bending chords in tune") feature requires calibrated strings, and the heaviest gauge of calibrated double ball strings (sometimes) available is 11-50 (LaBella). I don't know exactly which gauges you have in mind, though.

 

You can use the ZT3 with regular single ball strings, too, but it's pretty much impossible to set up the transposing feature with these strings, even in standard tuning.

 

Bernd

[martinriggs]

edit: nevermind

[martinriggs]

Well, bending chords in tune is transposing. And this won't work. Apart from that, the transposing (a.k.a. "bending chords in tune") feature requires calibrated strings, and the heaviest gauge of calibrated double ball strings (sometimes) available is 11-50 (LaBella). I don't know exactly which gauges you have in mind, though.

 

You can use the ZT3 with regular single ball strings, too, but it's pretty much impossible to set up the transposing feature with these strings, even in standard tuning.

 

Bernd

 

 

Hmm...would it be possible to use that calibrated 11-50 set and use it from the 5th string (A string in standard E tuning) and just replace the lowest string with a heavier gauge string from another non calibrated set?

 

What would happen if you did that?

[Be.eM]

 

What would happen if you did that?

 

The most probable effect (with a correctly set up trem): everything but the E string would stay in tune when using the trem. If it's just a single string like the high E-string, you could get pretty close to correct transposing for this one too. This requires to find the "magical" length for clamping a standard (single ball string) on the headpiece. If you manage to find the correct starting position for tuning up, the end position could be where it would be with a calibrated double ball string, too. Maybe not perfect, but close.

 

Bernd

[martinriggs]

The most probable effect (with a correctly set up trem): everything but the E string would stay in tune when using the trem.

 

But you mean after using the trem arm it would go back in it's original pitch, right? In that sense it would not go out of tune?

 

 

If it's just a single string like the high E-string, you could get pretty close to correct transposing for this one too. This requires to find the "magical" length for clamping a standard (single ball string) on the headpiece. If you manage to find the correct starting position for tuning up, the end position could be where it would be with a calibrated double ball string, too. Maybe not perfect, but close.

 

Bernd

 

I don't think I exactly understand what you mean.

[Be.eM]

But you mean after using the trem arm it would go back in it's original pitch, right? In that sense it would not go out of tune?

 

Correct. "Return to zero" should always work, no matter which strings you use.

 

I don't think I exactly understand what you mean.

 

 

Ha… I'm sure you don't :P

 

This has to do with the important detail I've mentioned above. The ball end of each string must be in a certain, pre-defined position relative to the pivot axis of the trem, otherwise transposing will not work. This is (usually) warranted by using calibrated strings, which will reach exactly this position after tuning up to pitch.

 

If you use a regular string, the ball end position of this string on start and end of the tuning process is not clearly defined. It is where you put it before tightening the screw on the headpiece, holding the string. Then you tune up. And now it's possible that the string is too long, means: the jaw needs to go further back, behind that special "calibrated" position. Or the string is too short, which means the jaw doesn't reach that position when the string is in tune.

 

When you notice this happening, you can still go back, loosen the string, move the string in the headpiece back or forth, and try it again. And again, again, again… until you've found the correct starting position which lets you finish tuning in exactly the correct position. You don't want to do that for six strings, but one might be OK ;)

 

Bernd

[martinriggs]

Correct. "Return to zero" should always work, no matter which strings you use.

 

Cool.

 

I use a heavy tuning with a fair amount of tube distortion so i'm not really into playing a lot of chords with the lowest strings anyway as it gets pretty muddy.

 

The lowest tonic isn't that important anyway, you can substitute it in many ways and still have the chord degree/structure clearly defined. You can let the bass guitar handle that or when playing barre chords just leave the bottom note out when bending chords which probably isn't that noticeable or common perhaps anyway.

 

 

Ha… I'm sure you don't :P

 

This has to do with the important detail I've mentioned above. The ball end of each string must be in a certain, pre-defined position relative to the pivot axis of the trem, otherwise transposing will not work. This is (usually) warranted by using calibrated strings, which will reach exactly this position after tuning up to pitch.

 

If you use a regular string, the ball end position of this string on start and end of the tuning process is not clearly defined. It is where you put it before tightening the screw on the headpiece, holding the string. Then you tune up. And now it's possible that the string is too long, means: the jaw needs to go further back, behind that special "calibrated" position. Or the string is too short, which means the jaw doesn't reach that position when the string is in tune.

 

When you notice this happening, you can still go back, loosen the string, move the string in the headpiece back or forth, and try it again. And again, again, again… until you've found the correct starting position which lets you finish tuning in exactly the correct position. You don't want to do that for six strings, but one might be OK ;)

 

Bernd

 

Thanks for (attempting) to clear it up. I guess I'll fully understand this once I have the guitar and can look at it while I read this.

 

But it's cool to hear it's doable.

 

You could probably adjust the lowest string properly and then take precise measurements for the next string change, right? Provided, you use the same gauge?

[Be.eM]

Thanks for (attempting) to clear it up. I guess I'll fully understand this once I have the guitar and can look at it while I read this.

 

But it's cool to hear it's doable.

 

You could probably adjust the lowest string properly and then take precise measurements for the next string change, right? Provided, you use the same gauge?

 

 

Yes, this would be the way to replicate a (once) successful setup. For fully understanding the TransTrem principles, you can spend a lot of time with that thing. The feature "calibrated" on the TT strings is all about length, THIS is what hast to be precisely within a certain range. If you manage to find out the perfect length for installing a regular string, you will be able to use that measurement for new strings of the same brand/gauge, and it should work.

 

Bernd

[martinriggs]

Yes, this would be the way to replicate a (once) successful setup. For fully understanding the TransTrem principles, you can spend a lot of time with that thing. The feature "calibrated" on the TT strings is all about length, THIS is what hast to be precisely within a certain range. If you manage to find out the perfect length for installing a regular string, you will be able to use that measurement for new strings of the same brand/gauge, and it should work.

 

Bernd

 

 

cool, thx