Conflicting information and my Gibson ES-325

[melissasattack]

Hey there! I'm new here and I was wondering if I could get some insight into a purchase I'm in the process of making.

 

My partner and I visited a guitar shop, just to browse, and he fell in love with the Gibson Es-325 they had there. I had no idea of the history of them because it's a lesser known model, but I knew it sounded great and he totally fell in love with it. We've got some money coming soon so I put down a 20% deposit. The label said 1971, and the guys in the shop said this was one of the earliest ones made, and is slightly rarer.

 

However, on coming home and doing more research, I see that the guitar officially went into production in 1972. I've spoken to the shop and they've told me that guitars from this era are notoriously difficult to date, but that all the parts (volume pots, etc) are definitely 1971.

 

I know that the 72s are priced at about £2000. The price on this guitar was a little higher, justified by the fact it was rarer. The shop is prominent and has a good reputation, and we're buying it because my partner loves it and will play it, so price isn't really the issue.

 

I'd like a second opinion from you guys on here that know these things! Were there any ES-325s made in 1971?

 

I don't have any good pictures but I can give you some info that I think is relevant. The picture attached is all I have. (EDIT https://31.media.tumblr.com/8db8cd268eb5869876e1dcc4215898f3/tumblr_mxws95rVuo1s8czmeo1_500.jpg)

 

The serial number is 190325. The finish is a translucent cherry red. The pick-ups are NOT marked, they appear just as smooth blocks of metal. The bridge is a trapeze style, and the pinstripe around the body is a single stripe in a cream colour. The headstock inlay is pearl.

 

I know this little bit of info isn't enough to give a perfect date, but it may help I guess. I just want to know if it is possible that it IS a 1971, and if it's possible, is there a way to confirm it?

 

Any info at all would be helpful. Thanks in advance!

[Jayyj]

As far as I know you're correct in thinking 1972 was the first year of production. The pots could easily date to the previous year and been installed a few months later, by which time they were into '72. Although a cool guitar, the collector's market for them is limited and I don't think the year of manufacture has much of an impact on the value. As you say, the most important thing is that he loves the guitar!

[capmaster]

There were some instruments manufactured by Gibson which had been forerunners of things to come. One of my Les Paul guitars made in 2011 is Modern Weight Relieved, and Modern Weight Relieving was released in 2012. Next to all guitars made to these specifications already in 2011 are bearing "2012 MODEL" engraved on the peghead's back. Mine is part of a limited run and does not. Moreover, this particular model never appeared in a catalog or the Gibson webpage but was offered to special dealers only. It is doubtlessly legit, by the way.

[JimR56]

Hi Melissa,

First of all, your comments and the way you presented your question would indicate that you have educated yourself well on the subject. The shop is correct with regard to Gibsons from that era being notoriously difficult to accurately date. Your question is interesting, but I would have to agree with Jayyj. As far as I know, the 325 wasn't officially introduced until 1972. I suppose it's reasonable to suggest that an early example (even if it's from '72 and not '71) could be considered to be worth more than a later one, but in this case I think that's pretty subjective.

 

One thing that makes me think that this guitar might be seen as a bit more valuable (or just a bit cooler) than some of the examples from later in the run is that cherry finish. The translucent cherry is more of a "vintage" look, a throwback to the late '50's and 60's era. As the 70's progressed, Gibson gradually moved away from that and toward more of a darker "wine red" aesthetic. Because this is a relatively obscure Gibson model, I haven't seen many of them, but it looks great in the photo you linked. I'm not sure I've ever even seen one of these in person, and I had been under the false impression that they were semi-hollow, like a 335. So, you helped me to learn something. The fact that it's fully hollow and features those mini-humbuckers makes it a very interesting and somewhat unique instrument. Gibson recently introduced a model with those features, so it must have been a decent idea in the first place. I'm drawing a blank on the model number at the moment, but someone may chime in with that.

[melissasattack]

Hi Melissa,

First of all, your comments and the way you presented your question would indicate that you have educated yourself well on the subject. The shop is correct with regard to Gibsons from that era being notoriously difficult to accurately date. Your question is interesting, but I would have to agree with Jayyj. As far as I know, the 325 wasn't officially introduced until 1972. I suppose it's reasonable to suggest that an early example (even if it's from '72 and not '71) could be considered to be worth more than a later one, but in this case I think that's pretty subjective.

 

One thing that makes me think that this guitar might be seen as a bit more valuable (or just a bit cooler) than some of the examples from later in the run is that cherry finish. The translucent cherry is more of a "vintage" look, a throwback to the late '50's and 60's era. As the 70's progressed, Gibson gradually moved away from that and toward more of a darker "wine red" aesthetic. Because this is a relatively obscure Gibson model, I haven't seen many of them, but it looks great in the photo you linked. I'm not sure I've ever even seen one of these in person, and I had been under the false impression that they were semi-hollow, like a 335. So, you helped me to learn something. The fact that it's fully hollow and features those mini-humbuckers makes it a very interesting and somewhat unique instrument. Gibson recently introduced a model with those features, so it must have been a decent idea in the first place. I'm drawing a blank on the model number at the moment, but someone may chime in with that.

 

Thanks to you and everyone for your input so far! JimR56, you're right that the finish is spectacular. To be honest, the aesthetics combined with the great sound make me wonder why Gibson didn't follow the model up. The neck is pretty thin, though, so that could have something to do with it.

 

I will continue in my search for info, but any more thoughts would be appreciated! And of course, when we pay the balance and bring the baby home I will shower this post in fancy pictures of it :)

[vintagekory]

Gibson often did this, the official start was 1972, this was probably made December 1971- very rare. Many people don't realize they still mad a few Les Paul Customs in the month of January of 1961. This was made in Kalamazoo Michigan by the same craftsmen as the McCarty era Gibson, they made the greatest stuff ever produced. I own a June 1972 in the brown color, fabulous guitar.

 

This may benefit from artist use... There was a time when a Pelham blue vintage Gibson Trini Lopez wasn't worth all that much. Then Dave Grohl showed up everywhere with his, the collector price rose 5 times. Well, The lead singer of Kings of Leon swears by his 1972 Gibson ES-325. So if they get as big, then collector value could go crazy, these were pretty rare so they would benefit from scarcity. I am a long time Gibson collector, and I love this hidden gem. I'm eager to see the pics!!