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ES-335 HAS THE WORD SECOND ON BACK

#1 User is offline   akshyn jaxsin 

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 09:13 AM

I HAVE AN OLDER ES-335 WINE RED WE FOUND HIDDEN AWAY AT MY GRANDFATHERS MUSIC STORE BACK IN THE 80'S AND ON THE BACK OF THE HEADSTOCK WHERE THE SERIAL NUMBERS SHOULD BE HAS THE WORD SECOND. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

#2 User is offline   Ignatius 

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 11:16 AM

Hey Akshyn--

It means the guitar had some problem with it coming out of the plant. It could have been a finish problem or a construction problem or something like that. "Second" is the same as "blemished" in other fields. It could be something that someone fixed before it was even sold (or maybe your grandfather fixed it), but Gibson marks it as not a full-fledged, A-List Gibson. I think these kinds of guitars nowadays will have a B prefixed to their serial number, and I may be mistaken, but I don't think these guitars were ever covered by Gibson's warranty.

Ignatius

#3 User is offline   spitball 

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 02:05 PM

My '67 ES-335 is a factory second. It has the digit "2" impressed (very lightly) below the serial number. In my guitar's case, I believe that the black paint was applied too heavily around the edges, making it a much darker sunburst than usual. There's nothing wrong structurally.

#4 User is offline   Red 333 

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:01 PM

It may mean nothing. At around that time, sales were so bad for Gibson that they marked good models second so dealer's could discount them. Whether this is the case, or your was a true second, don't sweat it if the instrument plays well. Resale value may be effected, though.

Red 333

#5 User is offline   Ignatius 

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:54 PM

Quote

It may mean nothing. At around that time, sales were so bad for Gibson that they marked good models second so dealer's could discount them. Whether this is the case, or your was a true second, don't sweat it if the instrument plays well. Resale value may be effected, though.

Red 333


Wow, Red 333. I often forget how bad Gibsons were in the dark days.

But how did you know what period the guitar was from? I thought the original poster said that he or she found an older guitar in the '80s, not that the guitar was from the 1980s. Or am I misreading?

Ignatius

#6 User is offline   kaicho8888 

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 05:46 PM

I was told, on a number of occasions during many Gibson tours, that Gibson does not sell products that are not up to specs/standards. They are completely destroyed.
Old Rockers never die; we just fade away! 会長

#7 User is offline   spitball 

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 12:24 AM

Well, I guess the policy changed. They obviously let guitars out in the past that were deemed as seconds. I have always read that it meant there was a minor cosmetic flaw. This seems to be the case for my guitar, which plays and sounds like a champ, but looks like someone was a little trigger-happy when they applied the black edging:

Posted Image

#8 User is offline   ksdaddy 

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 01:47 AM

I don't think Gibson has sold seconds since Henry took over. In the 60s it happened some, in the 70s it was rampant. They could have been stamped '2' or 'Second' (same meaning) or 'BGN' which usually meant there was something severely messed up cosmetically and they were sold in-house to employees. At least that's the legend.

#9 User is offline   Ignatius 

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 02:24 AM

[quote name='ksdaddy]I don't think Gibson has sold seconds since Henry took over. In the 60s it happened some' date=' in the 70s it was rampant. They could have been stamped '2' or 'Second' (same meaning) or 'BGN' which usually meant there was something severely messed up cosmetically and they were sold in-house to employees. At least that's the legend. [/quote']

My apologies for the earlier incorrect info on current seconds. I thought I had heard that seconds were still getting out of the plants these days. Now that I think about it, maybe what I actually heard was the opinion that some of the current guitars that leave the plant today would have been labeled seconds in the old days (i.e., finish and binding blemishes that are sold on new guitars).

Ignatius

#10 User is offline   Hydra26 

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 10:34 AM

If you believe all the bad press, everything coming off the line today is inferior in every way, isn't fit to put strings on and the neck/headstock self destruct when the moon goes into a new phase or you look at them funny. :)

I wasn't fortunate enough to be able to afford Gibsons in the old days, but I'm pretty happy with the ones I've gotten in recent years. Granted I don't live overseas so I don't have import duties and various sundries driving the prices up, so they compare VERY favorably with epiphones and other makes in terms of bang for buck to me.



#11 User is offline   Ignatius 

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 11:57 AM

Quote

If you believe all the bad press, everything coming off the line today is inferior in every way, isn't fit to put strings on and the neck/headstock self destruct when the moon goes into a new phase or you look at them funny. =D>

I wasn't fortunate enough to be able to afford Gibsons in the old days, but I'm pretty happy with the ones I've gotten in recent years. Granted I don't live overseas so I don't have import duties and various sundries driving the prices up, so they compare VERY favorably with epiphones and other makes in terms of bang for buck to me.


Excellent point, Hydra26, and I stand corrected. We know from that whole "Last Band Standing" debacle that knocking Gibson appears to be the latest free-market sport. I should learn to remember where these comments are coming from before I repeat them.

I hereby promise never to repeat hearsay on the forum.

Ignatius

#12 User is offline   Hydra26 

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 09:32 AM

Oh, repeat all you want, didn't mean to come off as scolding or anything. :)

Just my own observations. Seems every board I go to, there's a lot of Gibson bashing. A lot fo the time it's from folks in countries where Gibsons are hideously priced due to import duties, but everyone else fails to recognize that and jumps on the "overpriced" bandwagon. Strangely though, whenever a good deal on a Gibby comes up or someone has an opportunity to acquire one people fall all over themselves telling the person to get it.



#13 User is offline   Ignatius 

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 11:20 AM

[quote name='Hydra26]Oh' date=' repeat all you want, didn't mean to come off as scolding or anything. :) [/quote']

You didn't come off as scolding at all, Hydra. You just reminded me that I should know what I talking about before I start typing. A good reminder here or anywhere.

I think another issue with the Gibson bashing is the terrible state of many Gibsons in Guitar Centers. If I made my judgment just from the guitars I saw last Thursday night at a Guitar Center I visited for the first time, I would have to say that Gibson lets the worst garbage out of the factory: missing toggle switch rings, pickups collapsing into hollowbodies, and badly defaced finishes. Of course, most of them had been under assault at Guitar Center for the better part of two or more years.

I did, however, also see a great ES-335 there amid the wreckage, and if someone had tried that one, they would have known that Gibson is a bargain for its prices. I am trying to figure out how to snag that 335 before it is sold or wrecked.

Ignatius

#14 User is offline   Hydra26 

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 02:02 PM

I did see a horrible explorer at GC a while back. It was a natural finish like one I have, but the action was terrible. The nut was cut a mile high off the fretboard. Some of the ugliest wood I've ever seen went into the body. It was terrible to see and to play. Kind of a shock given my own track record with buying gibsons, (about half sight unseen). Then again it's all subjective.



#15 User is offline   roadhog96 

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 02:06 PM

Quote

I did, however, also see a great ES-335 there amid the wreckage, and if someone had tried that one, they would have known that Gibson is a bargain for its prices. I am trying to figure out how to snag that 335 before it is sold or wrecked.

Ignatius

You know Guitar Center has a deal if you get their charge card you have up to a year with no interest to pay for it. I bought my LP 68 Custom when they offered 15 months, my 335 has the 12 months. I keep the money in a high interest account and pay it off before the times up other wise you accrued the interest from the beginning Yikes! Thats one way to get it fast.

#16 User is offline   Ignatius 

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 03:13 PM

Roadhog, my man, you are the tempter, aren't you? I was so excited when I first read your post that I almost jumped at the GC credit card deal immediately. But then I remembered that I promised myself that I wouldn't buy until I had the cash because I want to wait on this one and make it right. If I can't afford it, I can't have it; that's the deal, and it is forcing me to try out other guitars and to learn what really works.

And it will be sweet when I finally get to plunk down the cash on that one that I know will be the right one.

Ignatius

#17 User is offline   Hydra26 

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 04:08 PM

Yeah! I haven't bought any on credit and it does make me appreciate them a little differently, I think. Also prevents me from going back to the poorhouse over the newest shiny. =P~/



#18 User is offline   CustomerService 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 08:40 AM

i think people are soo ready to say that gibsons are overpriced, but what about PRS? earnie ball? even some reliced type fenders?


i got a strat , a tele, and id like a jackson


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#19 User is offline   ES345 

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 02:04 AM

Back in the 70's i searched for a nice 175, i made the trip to washington music, they had 4 natural finished 175's, everyone was a second, and with significant finish blemishes/scratches etc., the one sunburst was also a 2nd with obvious finish problems. I was bumbed out, but the sales person then brought out a guild X 175, their version, but it had a solid spruce top, normal volume and and tone controls plus a master volume, and played and sounded great, so i bought it, i came close to having a 175, i still look at them, but in terms of quality material and workmanship at that time the guild was far superior to the gibson, funny because one of those gibson 2nd's is probably worth more tha this pristine beautiful guild that i still have and play regularly. As i remmeber a natural 175 was about $ 950.00, the guild was $ 800.00.



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