2013 Traditional verses 2014 traditional?

[MikeThomasmusic]

Hello, all. I have owned some Gibson's throughout my playing but I have for the most part always been a die hard Gretsch guy, therefore I do not consider myself to be super knowledgable when it comes to Gibson's like I am my Gretsch's. So I have decided as much as I love my Grtetsch guitars, I miss the full sound of Gibson hum buckers for rock. Originally due to weight factor I was considering an SG as I have owned one in the last and looked it. However, I have never owned a Les Paul. I have borrowed friends, but never really lived with one long enough. I'm now leaning more towards a Les Paul instead of the SG. The Les paul is just so iconic, and based on my research they seem to hold their value on the used market unbelievably well.

 

So i have decided that if I'm going to go with a Les Paul I think I want a Non weight relief body. I know its a touchy subject, but if that's how the old ones were made, there has to be something to the mojo and mystique, and every little bit of mojo must help. Those old ones wouldn't have such a sound, and be as expensive for lack of reasons. So that being said, I'm sure some of you are aware at some of the great leftover deals that can be found on leftover 2013 traditional's? I actually tend to prefer the 2013's simply for the fact that I am not a fan of the anniversary inlay on the 2014's. Besides the inlay is there really any other difference between a 2014 traditional and 2013? Also a good friend of mine who is very well off and besides being a monster player who can play just about any style amazingly, he also has owned and still owns just about every major guitar that ever existed. Put it this easy I really respect his opinions when it comes to tone. He has not only the years experience and the chops but he is very wealthy and has been fortunate to own and compare just about every model les paul known. When it comes to being a "tone tweaker", I put him uo there with the likes of an Eric Johnson, ( i still think hi 9 volt battery argument is hilarious), Anyhow my well respect friend, seems to think the newer m,eating 2013 and 2014 Traditional's feel Clunky, whatever that means? He swears (and not just because he can afford anything), bit he swears that I would be best off holding off until I can afford a custom shop historic, or he recommended that I could probably find a used historic in and around the price of what a new $2014 traditional costs. So I asked him since the 2013 upgrades like the orange drops,the adeline dye nitro finish, the old style non tunneled truss rod placement, the slightly more creamed vintage correct binding and inlay, is there really that big of a difference going with a historic. His answer was simply yes! Once you try one you will understand. He said think of it this way, Gibson has to somehow justify the price difference between the regular USA's and custom shops, and he said that there no doubt is a noticbke difference in tone,feel and playability. What are everyone's thoughts. And for a Les Paul Newbie that wants a non weight relief what should I do? Go with a 2013 or 2014 traditional, or go with a pre owned Historic?

 

Thanks,

Mike.

[drew365]

Personally, I think your friend might be sniffing too many corks. But, I've always believed that if I'm convinced that I want a certain model of whatever I'm interested in buying, then that's the one I should figure out a way to buy because otherwise I will always be wondering if I screwed up. I've played new Traditional's and historics and I don't buy into the historics being that much better. But there's certainly no reason not to buy one except for price, and you know it would make you happy, so I say go for a used historic.

[capmaster]

In my opinion the 2013 Traditionals are pretty close to the "original" Les Paul tone. I think the short-tenon late '50s neck is a bigger part of it than the massive body. I like the Gibson USA chrome platings over the Gibson Custom and Epiphone nickel ones - they become tarnished rather soon, at least mine did and go on doing so.

 

The Traditional's Nashville Tune-O-Matic is not a downside to my ears. There might be some slight sonic differences between this and the vintage style ABR Tune-O-Matic, but changing the brazen tailpiece for a third-party, chrome-plated aluminum one will change tone and response much more.

 

There are ABR, Nashville, and 1970s long-travel "harmonica" bridges in my arsenal. There were brazen and aluminum tailpieces as well but I changed all the chrome-plated stop bars for TP-6 fine tuning ones. So there is just either one brazen and one aluminum-made left. None of all these parts is basically better or worse, just different. The very difference is in the tailpieces IMHO. Sadly they don't make the TP-6 with nickel plating. However, I think a Traditional with a retrofitted lightweight stopbar might be able to meet your demands.

 

Finally, I have to say that I like my weight-relieved Les Paul guitars, too, but my Traditional 2013 has the very Les Paul tone for me.

[crazytrain513]

Hey everyone, I thought I would resurrect this thread instead of starting a new one.

 

Can anyone else add to it? My question is pretty much the same as the OP, with a few additions:

 

1) I don't have the liberty of trying before I buy the 2014. How do the 1959 Tribute HB's compare to the 57's? I always thought those were a bit underpowered and mushy.

 

2) How are the necks compared to the 2013's? The 2013's were said to have some of the chunkiest necks in a long time. I don't mind the 50's style necks but the baseball-bat necks are too much.

 

3) How is the quality, honestly, when compared to a Historic? I know people say that the attention to detail is better on Historics yada yada but is it worth it to get a used Historic over a new 2013 (if I can find one) or 2014? If I get a new Les Paul I will have a warranty.

 

Anything else to add by you all in terms of experiences or just factual differences would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[1963DaveG]

The nut on my 2014 Traditional is fine and i have had no issues whatsoever. I use sharp pencil to give some "lube" and have no pinging or other issues. And the Pleked frets are perfect! Not a buzz anywhere whatsoever.

 

The Klusons are TonePros now if I am correct. They are firm and don't bind and once in tune only have minor adjustments to make from day to day and sometimes no adjustments at all from one or two days between practice sessions account of the way I work.

 

And the 59 pups may not have as much output as the 57 pups do but the 59s are in my opinion more cleaner sounding in any mode, clean or distorted than the 57s. The 2013 pots I think are also 300k versus the 2014s have 500k pots. So very different in tone but levels of output can be manipulated on either to obtain what one needs or wants. I do know a lot of folks were changing out the 300k pots for the 500k pots on the 2013s as well.

 

And again in as far as fit and finish and quality versus an historic Lester. I'm sure there are many USA Traditionals that are run of the mill and aren't on par with an Historic, but only in as far as the top is concerned if you ask me. However if one does their homework like I did then one can find a Traditional that looks as good and plays as good as any Historic Lester and side by side with a plain truss rod cover one would never know. Of course your always gonna have the my dog is better than your dog drama from some and it isn't about that at all.

 

Oh and the dreaded 12th fret inlay. I can do with or without it, but it isn't bad looking at all compared to previous anniversary inlays. Its hardly noticeable and the fact that some are gonna miss out on some fine Lester's I find amusing. But to each his/her an as if I am gonna pay hard earned money is get what I want as well.

 

And the neck to me is a late 50s, its not huge its not thin, what I equate to be a 59 style neck. For me it is perfect.

[pippy]

...I'm sure there are many USA Traditionals that are run of the mill and aren't on par with an Historic, but only in as far as the top is concerned if you ask me. However if one does their homework like I did then one can find a Traditional that looks as good and plays as good as any Historic Lester and side by side with a plain truss rod cover one would never know. Of course your always gonna have the my dog is better than your dog drama from some and it isn't about that at all.

Can I ask you in a very friendly way - and certainly not even remotely in a "my-dog-is-better-than-your-dog-drama" way - to expand on your time spent with various Historics which could help explain your assessment, DaveG?

 

I'm curious.

 

 

P.

 

EDIT : Just for the record my own experiences back up much of what you say - so please don't think I'm starting a bun-fight!

[SkaneatelesLake]

I really don't think you can go wrong with either. I have owned both and prefer my 2014 to the 2013 due to the '59 pups in it. The finish on my 2014 is absolutely perfect. I also like the brown case that comes with the 2014. Just my two cents.

[cjsinla]

I really don't think you can go wrong with either. I have owned both and prefer my 2014 to the 2013 due to the '59 pups in it. The finish on my 2014 is absolutely perfect. I also like the brown case that comes with the 2014. Just my two cents.

 

What he said

 

[batmanrb89]

Here's what happened with my purchase....

 

I was sold on a 2013 traditional. It was the last one they had in the color I wanted. I loved everything about it except the neck felt just a little extra thick than previously played 50's necks. It also was extremely light for a no-weight relieved body. Felt like an epiphone weight. The day I went in to buy it, they had a 2014 trad in the same color that was a return(had strap locks on it too) so the price had to be reduced. This puppy weighed in at 10,6pounds, and the 59 tributes blew the 57's away in the 2013. The neck felt slightly thinner too, but still thicker than the 60's neck. It was a no brainier for me. I went with the 2014. Haven't looked back,and have even improved my playing dramatically because of it.

[1963DaveG]

Can I ask you in a very friendly way - and certainly not even remotely in a "my-dog-is-better-than-your-dog-drama" way - to expand on your time spent with various Historics which could help explain your assessment, DaveG?

 

I'm curious.

 

 

P.

 

EDIT : Just for the record my own experiences back up much of what you say - so please don't think I'm starting a bun-fight!

 

Pippy sorry for not getting back sooner but work has not allowed me to reply to you. In as far as my experience with Historic goes is not a lot compared to many folks but the few I have had some exposure to were a 2009 R9 & 2007 R7 personally. Don't get me wrong the Historic coming out of the Custom Shop are truly amazing and quality is second to none. But even these two, of course based off of different years 59/57 are different in some form and fashion from other years of R9s and R7s. Basically as we know there are no two guitars exactly the same. With that said however with the Historics from what I have seen or know is that even from one year to another there are subtle differences, but quality, craftsmanship, and attention to detail are superb. When I got back into guitars my search for a really nice and affordable Les Paul eventually led me to my 93 Studio which I still have and probably will never let it go. In doing my homework then I was not impressed with chambered or modern weight relief Les Paul's, especially doing a side by side comparison of my "swiss Chessed" 93 compared to a 2007 Studio. To me there was a discernable difference in tone/sound even in the difference in the "feel" of it not playability, if that makes sense. So I had resigned myself to never purchasing a new Les Paul, except an Historic which I could not any time soon afford. Then came along the 2013 Traditional... wow! A solid body Les Paul, Rosewood fretboard, various finishes that are/were outstanding. These were to me basically an Historic Les Paul labeled as a Gibson USA Les Paul. Everything about them, or at least most was as good as an Historic except I wasn't in the position at the time to purchase a 2013 Traditional as I had just purchased a home, moving, upgrading and such. But then came along the 2014 Traditional line Les Paul still solid body and still as good if not better than the 2013 Traditional's if that is possible. I then searched and searched until I found the "one", the 2014 Traditional that I had to have. Fit and finish, playability, quality and craftsmanship in my opinion based upon the two Historic I personally played were the same. Again, there are some that the AA maple tops don't match well, but there are many that are AAA maple tops in my opinion. So my experience with Historics are limited and more head knowledge from what I have seen and read. Now I have visually seen many Historic but have not played or even held them too. And I have seen many 2013 & 2014 Traditional's that I haven't played or held too. And I have for the most part felt that over the last several years that Gibson USA quality and craftsmanship has and is improving and is for the most part superb. Sure there are always those that fall through the cracks. My comment of "my dog is better than your dog" is commonplace and when one obtains a better quality instrument, in this case a guitar, many look down upon those that don't have what is considered the cream.of the crop. Some feel that because they spent several thousand on a guitar automatically makes it better, and unfortunately it doesn't. In saying that I often refer to the 90s era as being a time that hasn't been and might not be again concerning Gibson USA. I have to say as good as the 90s were I have had a change of heart cause the 13 & 14 Traditional's changed my mind. Sorry for long winded and such but this is as best an explanation as I can give. I wasn't gonna get into specification's of the 13 & 14 Traditionals compared to the Historic's as to what is made by CNC and what is made by hand. Some say the Custom Shop gets first pick on wood. That the most experienced luthiers work only in the Custom Shop. I think that both Gibson USA and Custom Shop get a lot of personal hands on attention, and with some of the fine examples I am seeing the Custom Shop doesn't have all the gems!

[cjsinla]

Here's what happened with my purchase....

 

I was sold on a 2013 traditional. It was the last one they had in the color I wanted. I loved everything about it except the neck felt just a little extra thick than previously played 50's necks. It also was extremely light for a no-weight relieved body. Felt like an epiphone weight. The day I went in to buy it, they had a 2014 trad in the same color that was a return(had strap locks on it too) so the price had to be reduced. This puppy weighed in at 10,6pounds, and the 59 tributes blew the 57's away in the 2013. The neck felt slightly thinner too, but still thicker than the 60's neck. It was a no brainier for me. I went with the 2014. Haven't looked back,and have even improved my playing dramatically because of it.

 

The neck on my 2014 is also a little flatter/thinner than the neck on my 2013. I wasn't sure if they are all like that or not. I also felt the 2013 was a little too fat but got used to it quickly.

[batmanrb89]

The neck on my 2014 is also a little flatter/thinner than the neck on my 2013. I wasn't sure if they are all like that or not. I also felt the 2013 was a little too fat but got used to it quickly.

 

The 2014 just felt better at the end of the day. The Inlay bothered me when I first saw it, but it doesn't bother me now. I put on Ernie Ball Cobalt 10's and it plays like a dream.

[cjsinla]

The 2014 just felt better at the end of the day. The Inlay bothered me when I first saw it, but it doesn't bother me now. I put on Ernie Ball Cobalt 10's and it plays like a dream.

 

The 2014 feels a little better and sounds a little better IMO.

[MikeThomasmusic]

So you guys seem to be liking the 2014's 59 pickups better? Everybody's opinions will be different, but I thought I remembered reading that the general consensus regarding the 2014 59 tribute pickups were that they weren't as good as the 57's? For the record, I too had trouble with a 2013 traditional neck. Mine was used and I had to return the guitar anyways for something else,but the neck was just too wide for me as well. Especially as you moved up through the 4th and 5th frets and beyond it just seemed to grow wider. Single note playing was fine but any length of time spent playing power or Barre chords from around the 5th to 9th frets and forget it my hand would cramp up.

[MichaelDH]

I've never played the 2013, bought a 2014 through Sweetwater a few weeks ago. I love the 59's, I mostly play classic rock and some blues stuff. I'm not a speed player. The neck is perfect for me, much more comfortable than any others I've played.

[batmanrb89]

So you guys seem to be liking the 2014's 59 pickups better? Everybody's opinions will be different, but I thought I remembered reading that the general consensus regarding the 2014 59 tribute pickups were that they weren't as good as the 57's? For the record, I too had trouble with a 2013 traditional neck. Mine was used and I had to return the guitar anyways for something else,but the neck was just too wide for me as well. Especially as you moved up through the 4th and 5th frets and beyond it just seemed to grow wider. Single note playing was fine but any length of time spent playing power or Barre chords from around the 5th to 9th frets and forget it my hand would cramp up.

 

I wasn't against the 57's. Actually, before I bought the 2014, I read that the 59's were brighter, and the 57's were preferred by most. I think it was a matter of that the 2013 model was very light in weight, with the 57's, (It felt lighter than 8 pounds believe it r not)and the 2014 was very heavy in weight,(10.6 pounds to be exact, with the 59's, so I maybe got the best of both worlds. The wood/weight definitely makes a difference.

[batmanrb89]

I wasn't against the 57's. Actually, before I bought the 2014, I read that the 59's were brighter, and the 57's were preferred by most. I think it was a matter of that the 2013 model was very light in weight, with the 57's, (It felt lighter than 8 pounds believe it r not)and the 2014 was very heavy in weight,(10.6 pounds to be exact, with the 59's, so I maybe got the best of both worlds. The wood/weight definitely makes a difference.

[1963DaveG]

Batmanrb89 & SkaneatlesLake you guys have GOT to post full size pics so we can see these two beauties as those thumbnails do NOT get large enough to appreciate them PLEASE ;-)

 

 

[batmanrb89]

Hopefully this worked...

[1963DaveG]

Hopefully this worked...

 

MUCH better! Wow that is a beauty for sure!

[cjsinla]

I wasn't against the 57's. Actually, before I bought the 2014, I read that the 59's were brighter, and the 57's were preferred by most. I think it was a matter of that the 2013 model was very light in weight, with the 57's, (It felt lighter than 8 pounds believe it r not)and the 2014 was very heavy in weight,(10.6 pounds to be exact, with the 59's, so I maybe got the best of both worlds. The wood/weight definitely makes a difference.

 

I put 59's in my 9 1/2 pound 2013 Trad because I liked them so much and the 57's didn't have enough chime for me. The 2013 still sounds darker than my 2014 8 3/4 pound Trad. May have something to do with the difference in weight. But, 57's sound great in my SG's.

[capmaster]

I put 59's in my 9 1/2 pound 2013 Trad because I liked them so much and the 57's didn't have enough chime for me. The 2013 still sounds darker than my 2014 8 3/4 pound Trad. May have something to do with the difference in weight. But, 57's sound great in my SG's.

I used 57 Classic / 57 Classic Plus in my 68 VOS Repro I built out of my Classic Custom because they sound real close to T Tops. I think the Duncan 59s are remarkably close to a true Vintage tone as well. The Burstbucker Pros sound closest to a 1960 Holy Grail Les Paul to me.

My Traditional 2013 is slightly over 9 1/2 pounds and really screams with their stock '57/'57+ pickups. B)

 

There are Burstbucker Pros in a modern weight relieved Standard 2012 of mine. After a clicking attack, their tone is just fat.

[cjsinla]

My Traditional 2013 is slightly over 9 1/2 pounds and really screams with their stock '57/'57+ pickups. B)

 

There are Burstbucker Pros in a modern weight relieved Standard 2012 of mine. After a clicking attack, their tone is just fat.

 

I do really like the 57's, but I do think the 57+ is a little hot! mine reads close to 8.5. I put it in a Flying V and still don't like it. FYI, I played Strats and Teles for years and really like guitars that are brighter. It's just a personal preference.

[tabeck5]

Never played the 59's but the 57 pups put in the 2013 traditional are some of the best I have ever heard. I play mine through a princeton reverb and I am always amazed at the tones that I get out of it, everything from tele like twang to excellent overdrive. That is one guitar I will never feel the need to tinker with.