GoletaRick Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I have a 1946 Gibson that I would like some opinions on. I have attached 3 photos that tell a story behind it. I have a picture of the original receipt from 1946 that was in the sound hole, the guitar has no serial number (indicative of the 46) and the headstock has had the keys replaced, and the headstock logo is of particular concern to me. It closely resembles the logo found on some vintage Gibsons around that era, but with slight differences throughout the logo. Also, the guitar has the number "13" inside the soundhole and is also referred to on the receipt as Gibson #13. The guitar is in STELLAR condition. My luthier says it is likely the guitar was refinished, but he added, the quality of the refinish is so outstanding that he believes it was likely done by Gibson. I wanted to get some opinions on this guitar from any of you who know your stuff... I am just a lucky recipient, not an authority on Gibson. Here is a link to three pics. 46 Gibson J45 Thank you all. RW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I have a 1946 Gibson that I would like some opinions on. I have attached 3 photos that tell a story behind it. I have a picture of the original receipt from 1946 that was in the sound hole, the guitar has no serial number (indicative of the 46) and the headstock has had the keys replaced, and the headstock logo is of particular concern to me. It closely resembles the logo found on some vintage Gibsons around that era, but with slight differences throughout the logo. Also, the guitar has the number "13" inside the soundhole and is also referred to on the receipt as Gibson #13. The guitar is in STELLAR condition. My luthier says it is likely the guitar was refinished, but he added, the quality of the refinish is so outstanding that he believes it was likely done by Gibson. I wanted to get some opinions on this guitar from any of you who know your stuff... I am just a lucky recipient, not an authority on Gibson. Here is a link to three pics. 46 Gibson J45 Thank you all. RW A few more photos would be helpful. Offhand, the first comments would be that the logo is all wrong for a '46, or -- for that matter -- for any J-45, and the tuners are evocative of 1970s or late '60s tuners. Please put up some photos of the whole instrument, front and back, and some detailed photos too showing closer views. It would be helpful if you want more help-by-distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliasphobias Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'd have to agree with J-1854me on this. More photos will be necessary for help. Most of what I see excludes it rather than includes it as a '46 j45. Another thing I would also consider is that if Gibson did the refinish, chances are good they could have gotten the logo right. Your concerns are valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoletaRick Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 A few more photos would be helpful. Offhand, the first comments would be that the logo is all wrong for a '46, or -- for that matter -- for any J-45, and the tuners are evocative of 1970s or late '60s tuners. Please put up some photos of the whole instrument, front and back, and some detailed photos too showing closer views. It would be helpful if you want more help-by-distance. OK, I put up more photos. FYI - Here is what I think. It is a genuine 46, as I said the receipt was IN the sound hole. I do think that it was refinished (see the photo of the bridge and notice the dark color adjacent to the bridge). I also suspect that whoever refinished the guitar probably attempted to recreate the Gibson logo. The keys are obviously not 46, but that is just a layman observation from surfing the net for photos. The logo does closely match an earlier model of Gibson (L-00), but then again not completely. My question is what does the #13 in the sound hole refer to? I can tell you this much, this guitar has the sweetest mellowest sound of any guitar I have played to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yes, refinished, and not very convincingly. The logo is also not original Gibson work. The "13," like all of that glue, is an after market addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoletaRick Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yes, refinished, and not very convincingly. The logo is also not original Gibson work. The "13," like all of that glue, is an after market addition. I do appreciate your opinion. My only question now for you is that the #13 is also referenced on the purchase receipt that is dated 1946. Do you suppose the retailer marked their stock or something? R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoletaRick Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yes, refinished, and not very convincingly. The logo is also not original Gibson work. The "13," like all of that glue, is an after market addition. Oops, one last thing. What would you recommend, if anything, I do to restore the integrity of this classic guitar? I play it daily... Perhaps that is enough? R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I do appreciate your opinion. My only question now for you is that the #13 is also referenced on the purchase receipt that is dated 1946. Do you suppose the retailer marked their stock or something? As far as I know, Gibson never used numbers like the one written on your guitar. Most 1946 flattops didn't have a Factory Order Nubmer (FON) stamped on the neck block. So, perhaps the music store added that identifying number. Oops, one last thing. What would you recommend, if anything, I do to restore the integrity of this classic guitar? I play it daily... Perhaps that is enough? I'd just play the heck out of it! These "player's grade" vintage guitars are my favorites. You get that vintage mojo but because it's not a pristine collectible, you don't have to worry that every scratch or ding will impair its value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliasphobias Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Hi Rick and welcome! Yes the j45 does look mid 40's. With the new pics I noticed the mahogany top-maple back. Through the sound hole the back looks to be mahogany-it could be one of the war era laminates. Sounds like you are quite happy with it as well you should be. Very few are lucky enough to own a 40's j45. If it were mine I would lean towards getting the logo recreated and tuners period correct(modern versions or whatever your wallet can handle). I can't come up with a logical explanation for the "13". Your summation of enjoy and play is spot on IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 The back is Mahogany as well but it is flat-sawn, so it looks a bit different from the top, which is nicely quarter sawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliasphobias Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 The back is Mahogany as well but it is flat-sawn, so it looks a bit different from the top, which is nicely quarter sawn. Thanks for the clarification. These doggone Gibsons are hard to pin down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoletaRick Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 As far as I know, Gibson never used numbers like the one written on your guitar. Most 1946 flattops didn't have a Factory Order Nubmer (FON) stamped on the neck block. So, perhaps the music store added that identifying number. I'd just play the heck out of it! These "player's grade" vintage guitars are my favorites. You get that vintage mojo but because it's not a pristine collectible, you don't have to worry that every scratch or ding will impair its value. Thank you so much for your POV. Although I DO cringe whenever I bump it. I treat her like a queen, but I do intend to play her every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoletaRick Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Hi Rick and welcome! Yes the j45 does look mid 40's. With the new pics I noticed the mahogany top-maple back. Through the sound hole the back looks to be mahogany-it could be one of the war era laminates. Sounds like you are quite happy with it as well you should be. Very few are lucky enough to own a 40's j45. If it were mine I would lean towards getting the logo recreated and tuners period correct(modern versions or whatever your wallet can handle). I can't come up with a logical explanation for the "13". Your summation of enjoy and play is spot on IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoletaRick Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 I have given thought of having the logo corrected, but then again, I am no Gibson expert, and for all I know, this could be a refinished rare Gibson with a unique (almost one off) logo.... As for the keys, it will depend on what I hear back on this guitar. It plays well and holds it tune as is. But if it is indeed a collectible, I would venture to find 46 keys and replace, and perhaps have the logo redone by Gibson... but that just may be my vanity speaking. I sincerely appreciate the feedback I am getting from this community! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliasphobias Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I have given thought of having the logo corrected, but then again, I am no Gibson expert, and for all I know, this could be a refinished rare Gibson with a unique (almost one off) logo.... As for the keys, it will depend on what I hear back on this guitar. It plays well and holds it tune as is. But if it is indeed a collectible, I would venture to find 46 keys and replace, and perhaps have the logo redone by Gibson... but that just may be my vanity speaking. I sincerely appreciate the feedback I am getting from this community! I would not worry about all that. From a collectability standpoint, "un-played original" would be the most desirable to a collector. Followed by original, then various degrees of wear/replaced parts etc. There is nothing you can do to take it back to original. This period of vintage guitars will always be desirable because they are in limited supply. There may be things that you can do to affect its resale value but not the collectability of the instrument. The logo is not a rare, "one off" by Gibson. Modifications done to make it period correct may enhance the resale value but not its collectability. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoletaRick Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 I would not worry about all that. From a collectability standpoint, "un-played original" would be the most desirable to a collector. Followed by original, then various degrees of wear/replaced parts etc. There is nothing you can do to take it back to original. This period of vintage guitars will always be desirable because they are in limited supply. There may be things that you can do to affect its resale value but not the collectability of the instrument. The logo is not a rare, "one off" by Gibson. Modifications done to make it period correct may enhance the resale value but not its collectability. I hope this helps. Thank you Thank you Thank you... my sentiments exactly. The music that this instrument inspires me to write is payment enough for me and sold me on Gibson. These questions I had have always nagged me none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I would not worry about all that. From a collectability standpoint, "un-played original" would be the most desirable to a collector. Followed by original, then various degrees of wear/replaced parts etc. There is nothing you can do to take it back to original. This period of vintage guitars will always be desirable because they are in limited supply. There may be things that you can do to affect its resale value but not the collectability of the instrument. The logo is not a rare, "one off" by Gibson. Modifications done to make it period correct may enhance the resale value but not its collectability. I hope this helps. I agree with alias ...and just to add my 2 cents.....The guitar looks pretty nice. The main detraction or 'distraction' to me is the headstock logo and the tuners. I am not crazy about the sunburst on the back either.(but I certainly would not change it) Just by installing 'period-style' tuners and having a proper gold script logo applied to the headstock you could add miles to the 'percieved' authenticity and value also. Essentially the same as aliasphobias said. May the guitar inspire you for many years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoletaRick Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thanks Retro I agree as well. I am still awaiting final response from Gibson on this. But I think you are both spot on at this time. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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