Mike@Ferro-Kings Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hey guys, new to the forum. Thought I would come out and seek advice since there is not a lot of info on the Internet with this new Gibson/Epiphone quick connect wiring. Problem: Really pronounced loss of power in middle switch position after installing the same model pickups that do NOT have quick connect into a guitar that has the board and quick connect system. Details: I have 2 identical 2013 Les Paul LPJ's for testing. These come with the new style 490R/498T pickups in the plastic covers. I purchased 2 guitars so I could modify the pickups in one to test against the stock. I then purchased several new sets of Gibson 490R/498T pups to modify and of course the new pickups (5 conductor) do not come with quick connect connectors. So I figured, no problem... I can splice them to the quick connect pigtail and all will be well. (same colors connected, soldered and heat shrinked) They work fine in their own switch positions but in the middle position there is a noticeable loss in power. (They are installed with proper pole placement) This does not happen on the stock LPJ, only on the one with the replacement pickups. I tried a new set (unmodified) and same thing. So the issue is with putting a same model pickup w/ standard wiring then splicing to the quick connect. (Please note: I replace pickups all the time so the issue is not with my soldering or connection skills) One thing I notice is the quick connector pin-out for these stock pickups is different from neck to bridge and also different than Epiphone does it. Epiphone's pin-out for all quick connect is (white, green, red, black, shield or screen). Gibson's is (at least on both of these LPJ's) - (white, green, red, black, shield or screen on Neck) and (red, black, white, green, shield or screen on the bridge). (See pic) Is Gibson doing something on the circuit board that I need to compensate for with my splice??? I initially thought I left too much cabling on because I spliced without cutting the cable down but the problem exists even after cutting the cables to proper length. I've been installing and testing pickups almost every day for the past 4 years and have never run into this on humbuckers except with these new quick connect guitars. (Yes, I know and understand about phasing with single coils) Any suggestions or feedback with wiring knowledge of quick connect and installing standard pickups would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! ~Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike@Ferro-Kings Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Here is a pic of the pin-outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 It sounds like you're going by colours Alone. Have you had meter on these to check the colour assumption? I think you must have if you've replaced as many pups as that. Have you checked the switch with a meter? The caps? Pots? It's a very simple.circuit and with your experience I'm sure you have approached this methodically so I'm sorry if I'm patronising. How pronounced is the drop? Could they be oop? Have you checked the magnetic polarity? Again, could they be oop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike@Ferro-Kings Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Thanks for taking the time to respond Farnsbarns. All things you mentioned were checked. I figured I shouldn't have posted this as everyone would only think I'm the idiot who didn't do something correct. No need to reply... wish I could even delete the topic at this point. (If you know a way to do that, please let me know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Thanks for taking the time to respond Farnsbarns. All things you mentioned were checked. I figured I shouldn't have posted this as everyone would only think I'm the idiot who didn't do something correct. No need to reply... wish I could even delete the topic at this point. (If you know a way to do that, please let me know) don't delete it as this is a relevant topic, and there's no such thing as a stupid question here......i'm the village idiot and they tolerate me just fine. I too was wondering as Farnsie was about the possibility of them being out of phase, or could you possibly be losing some power to ground w/the "afflicted" p'up set? let us know if/when you figure it out.....this might need to go in the DIY section....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike@Ferro-Kings Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Thanks Bender... I appreciate the positive vibe! I did resolve the issue and come to find out is is not me and has nothing to do with my technical abilities of installation. The real problem was that Gibson changed the color coding on the connector for the Bridge pickup and that caused the pickups to be out of phase when installed properly (color to color). Here's the details... Standard Gibson pickups with 4 conductor capabilities have 5 conductors (including screen or shield). They are manufactured with this coding... Red - Hot or +ve White - upper coil finish (connects to green in 2 conductor installs) Green - lower coil finish (connects to white in 2 conductor installs) Black - Ground or -ve Shield - Connect to black or ground (I was installing standard Gibson 490R/498T's which do not have quick connect connectors.) Now here's where it gets good. The quick connect board and connector have these color codings... Neck - Pin 1 - Shield / Pin 2 - Black / Pin 3 - Red / Pin 4 - Green / Pin 5 - White Bridge - Pin 1 - Shield / Pin 2 - Green / Pin 3 - White / Pin 4 - Black / Pin 5 - Red (I've tried to upload a pic of the pigtails unsuccessfully... will try again in this post) So the neck circuit is looking for Red/Black as the positive and negative and the bridge is looking for White/Green. (Note: This is the circuit for both of my 2013 LPJ's and a friends 2013 Studio with the same pups and QC board) So when I hooked up the pickups to the quick connect pigtails and observed proper color coding it actually put the pickups out of phase. To rectify you have to forget about connecting proper color to proper color and just give the board what it is looking for... Again note... this is only for the Bridge... the Neck is color coded properly. For the bridge pigtail... Connect Red from pickup to White on pigtail Black from pickup to Green White from pickup to Red Green from pickup to Black Shield to shield If you do not connect it like this, it will still work but there will be a noticeable power loss in the mid because of out of phase. This can be verified with clip leads if you are skeptical. Hope this helps someone and saves them time and troubleshooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 It seems to me that I was scratching my head about that issue once. I'm glad you figured it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Thanks Bender... I appreciate the positive vibe! I did resolve the issue and come to find out is is not me and has nothing to do with my technical abilities of installation. The real problem was that Gibson changed the color coding on the connector for the Bridge pickup and that caused the pickups to be out of phase when installed properly (color to color). Here's the details... Standard Gibson pickups with 4 conductor capabilities have 5 conductors (including screen or shield). They are manufactured with this coding... Red - Hot or +ve White - upper coil finish (connects to green in 2 conductor installs) Green - lower coil finish (connects to white in 2 conductor installs) Black - Ground or -ve Shield - Connect to black or ground (I was installing standard Gibson 490R/498T's which do not have quick connect connectors.) Now here's where it gets good. The quick connect board and connector have these color codings... Neck - Pin 1 - Shield / Pin 2 - Black / Pin 3 - Red / Pin 4 - Green / Pin 5 - White Bridge - Pin 1 - Shield / Pin 2 - Green / Pin 3 - White / Pin 4 - Black / Pin 5 - Red (I've tried to upload a pic of the pigtails unsuccessfully... will try again in this post) So the neck circuit is looking for Red/Black as the positive and negative and the bridge is looking for White/Green. (Note: This is the circuit for both of my 2013 LPJ's and a friends 2013 Studio with the same pups and QC board) So when I hooked up the pickups to the quick connect pigtails and observed proper color coding it actually put the pickups out of phase. To rectify you have to forget about connecting proper color to proper color and just give the board what it is looking for... Again note... this is only for the Bridge... the Neck is color coded properly. For the bridge pigtail... Connect Red from pickup to White on pigtail Black from pickup to Green White from pickup to Red Green from pickup to Black Shield to shield If you do not connect it like this, it will still work but there will be a noticeable power loss in the mid because of out of phase. This can be verified with clip leads if you are skeptical. Hope this helps someone and saves them time and troubleshooting. Positive vibe? Did my response come over as negative? I was trying very hard to avoid patronising because you've changed a hell of a lot more pups than I have but asking the questions that can to my mind. Sorry if I offended, not only not intended but I laboured to avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike@Ferro-Kings Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Positive vibe? Did my response come over as negative? I was trying very hard to avoid patronising because you've changed a hell of a lot more pups than I have but asking the questions that can to my mind. Sorry if I offended, not only not intended but I laboured to avoid it. Hey Farnsbarns... no way did you come across negative. Didn't mean my reply on the other post to suggest that... LOL. I came here to get opinions and suggestions and I'm glad you took the time to post. I just knew I had covered the basics and was really stumped. I even asked some of my real life friends and techs and everyone seemed to point back to me doing something wrong. I was just a little frustrated because I had checked, double-checked, and triple-checked so I was purely confused when I posted here. I appreciate you posting and asking questions bro... really! I like the degree of educated folks here after reading some of the other topics so I'll be joining in more. Thanks again man! And thanks for posting the follow up! I can tell you are one of the good guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Hey Farnsbarns... no way did you come across negative. Didn't mean my reply on the other post to suggest that... LOL. I came here to get opinions and suggestions and I'm glad you took the time to post. I just knew I had covered the basics and was really stumped. I even asked some of my real life friends and techs and everyone seemed to point back to me doing something wrong. I was just a little frustrated because I had checked, double-checked, and triple-checked so I was purely confused when I posted here. I appreciate you posting and asking questions bro... really! I like the degree of educated folks here after reading some of the other topics so I'll be joining in more. Thanks again man! And thanks for posting the follow up! I can tell you are one of the good guys! Glad I was misreading you. I'm getting a lot of people taking me wrong recently, I'm probably being over sensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Mike, that very same issue has been found when installing Seymour D's......DiMarzios....GFS.....many brands of p'ups, and now Gibson stockers TOO ?? good grief !! Gibby color codings wrong, dogs & cats living together.......it's the end I tell ya' !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike@Ferro-Kings Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 @Farnsbarns - Glad we are on the same page. We're good man. I look forward to discussing more things with you! @Bender4Life - I know... right. The manufacturers cannot agree to use a standardized color coding and that's a given. I just can't figure out why Gibson would change this on their board. Is it an attempt to make their quick connect system more proprietary? I know Epiphone has the same color coding pin-out on all their quick connect pickups. I'll be curious to look at the connectors of any new Gibson quick connect pickups to see if they are still cross-coding. Maybe it was just on that model or rev. of board. Oh well... most important thing is that we find ways to make things work. Thanks for taking the time to discuss this with me guys! (Anyone who has a 2014 Gibson with a quick connect board can check this easily enough by taking the 4 screws out of the control plate on the back and just note the neck and bridge connector pin-out color code and let us know.) If anyone reads this other than our group that has posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 5 pin to 2 pin QC connection. Hi, Thanks to Mike@Ferro-Kings I was able to get my pickups working properly. I had a bit of a different issue. I purchased a rental LP Studio and discovered that one of the renters had replaced the Gibson pickups with Epiphone pickups. The retailer gave me a choice of returning the guitar or a partial refund. The guitar felt great so I accepted the refund. The studio had a QC (Quick Connect) board with 2 pin pickup connectors. Being new to the whole QC thing, I had no idea that there were 2 formats - 2 and 5 pin. So I bought a set of QC pickups on ebay and found upon delivery that they were 5 pin. Following some on line resources, I cut off the 5 pin connector and was able to connect the 5 wire pickup to a 2 wire QC lead. I followed the same wiring scheme for both. Upon completion, I found the same issue as Mike@Ferro-Kings - the middle switch position caused a drop in volume. With his info, I was able to rewire the bridge pickup and solve the problem. Since I was unable to find anything online that gave specific instructions for a 5 to 2 pin conversion, I will post it here. The 2 pin QC lead wire (QCW2) consists of a silver braided wire covering a black wire up to the white shrink wrap which labels the wire as Bridge or Neck. From the shrink wrap, a black and green wire run to the 2 pin QC connector. The 5 pin QC pickup (QPUP5) has 5 wires - red, green, white, black, bare Wiring A - NECK The neck pickup is wired as follows: QCPUP5 red soldered to QCW2 black QCPUP5 green and white soldered together QCPUP5 black and bare wire soldered to QCW2 braided Wiring B - BRIDGE - thanks to Mike@Ferro-Kings The bridge pickup is wired as follows: QCPUP5 white soldered to QCW2 black QCPUP5 black and red soldered together QCPUP5 green and bare wire soldered to QCW2 braided ***PLEASE NOTE that that Wiring B is only for a 5 pin QC Bridge pickup.*** If you have 2 regular Gibson pickups that come only with the 5 wires (no 5 pin QC end) and need to wire them to a 2 pin QC board, use Wiring A for both. It should work but I cannot guarantee that it will because I have not tried it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 So much for "quick connect". Don't mean to be a nay-sayer (well, I do), but seems to me if you are going to implement a connector system and you change the wiring mid stream, you just defeated the purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 So much for "quick connect". Don't mean to be a nay-sayer (well, I do), but seems to me if you are going to implement a connector system and you change the wiring mid stream, you just defeated the purpose. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike@Ferro-Kings Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Good job Marsden! Thanks for sharing your info. It's very cool to find answers that work. Love the Internet for research! ~Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Youngblood Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Thanks Mike@Ferro-Kings - this is really helpful. This wiring configuration is so different from 'standard' wiring colors for Gibsons, I need to double check. Hopefully you guys can save me from having to dig out my multimeter - as its in a storage unit. I had a bad pot and pulled the PCB out of my 2013 Les Paul Standard. I replaced it with traditional push pull posts, caps, etc. As Mike mentioned - the middle position is out of phase. SO to clarify - on the bridge pickup: White goes to the positive lug, Green goes to the negative lug...then Black and Red are wired together and to the push/pull pot? Also - the neck is OK? This is so weird. Thanks Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike@Ferro-Kings Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 @Doug... yes, Doug, the Gibson Quick-Connect Bridge pickup is using White/Green where most normally wired Gibson pups use Red/Black. So connect the White to where you would connect the Red (Hot or +), connect Green to where you would connect Black (Neg or -). Then use the Red/Black as you would connect your push/pull split coil connection. The Neck pickup is wired with standard color code only the Bridge was changed. NOTE: This only applies to Gibson Quick-Connect Bridge Pickups. Please look at my pics to see the pinout color code. With all the different ways to wire push/pull pots, I will just refer you to this Stewmac page and use the color code explained in my main post on March 19, 2014. http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Pickups_and_Electronics/Gibson_Humbucking_Pickups.html Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunDogAZ Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Thanks Bender... I appreciate the positive vibe! I did resolve the issue and come to find out is is not me and has nothing to do with my technical abilities of installation. The real problem was that Gibson changed the color coding on the connector for the Bridge pickup and that caused the pickups to be out of phase when installed properly (color to color). Here's the details... Standard Gibson pickups with 4 conductor capabilities have 5 conductors (including screen or shield). They are manufactured with this coding... Red - Hot or +ve White - upper coil finish (connects to green in 2 conductor installs) Green - lower coil finish (connects to white in 2 conductor installs) Black - Ground or -ve Shield - Connect to black or ground (I was installing standard Gibson 490R/498T's which do not have quick connect connectors.) Now here's where it gets good. The quick connect board and connector have these color codings... Neck - Pin 1 - Shield / Pin 2 - Black / Pin 3 - Red / Pin 4 - Green / Pin 5 - White Bridge - Pin 1 - Shield / Pin 2 - Green / Pin 3 - White / Pin 4 - Black / Pin 5 - Red (I've tried to upload a pic of the pigtails unsuccessfully... will try again in this post) So the neck circuit is looking for Red/Black as the positive and negative and the bridge is looking for White/Green. (Note: This is the circuit for both of my 2013 LPJ's and a friends 2013 Studio with the same pups and QC board) So when I hooked up the pickups to the quick connect pigtails and observed proper color coding it actually put the pickups out of phase. To rectify you have to forget about connecting proper color to proper color and just give the board what it is looking for... Again note... this is only for the Bridge... the Neck is color coded properly. For the bridge pigtail... Connect Red from pickup to White on pigtail Black from pickup to Green White from pickup to Red Green from pickup to Black Shield to shield If you do not connect it like this, it will still work but there will be a noticeable power loss in the mid because of out of phase. This can be verified with clip leads if you are skeptical. Hope this helps someone and saves them time and troubleshooting. This thread is over a year old but I had to post. You know, I recently got a set of Gibson '57 Classics with 4-conductor (5-wire) quick connectors. I made some quick connect adapters to plug the pickups into so I could solder the adapter leads to a conventional harness. I just didn't want to clip the quick connect ends off of the pickups. I even made 3 more pairs and thought I'd sell them on ebay. Only tonight I realized one problem, and that is that the color-coding order differs between the neck and the bridge! And after doing some more research, then reading this thread I realized that I made the mistake of modeling all of my adapters after the bridge pup color code (shield, green, white, black, red)! Doh! I will need to redo all of the adapters that I made to match the standard color coding of the neck pickup. Man, it was not easy making those connections, and making them clean! Oh, well. Time to heat up the soldering iron again... And thank you very much Mike for your detailed description. Without this thread I'd still be scouring the internet for answers! SunDogAZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEADKNOCKER Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Here's a thread from MyLesPaulForum with several good pictures & good info.. why 5 PU wires on molex connector 2012 std Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajay Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I got an early 2014 Gibson Peace that is hand-wired. I've had several people tell me that there is absolutely no difference in sound. Wire is wire, whether it is printed, or cut and spliced. I agree that there may be no difference in sound, but there is a real benefit in handing off the simplicity of hand-wiring to Your guitar man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.