Gibson L7-C

[JayK]

Hello all (my first post here). I just received a new L7-C from Amazon (why Amazon? Well they had them at close-out pricing and have a generous return policy if there is a problem). Although it seems to play well, I have a few concerns and wonder whether anyone here might be able to clarify some things for me. First, unlike every other Gibson Custom Shop guitar I own, this one did not come with a certificate of authentication, although there is a "final checklist" included filled out by "JD" at Gibson. On the other hand, this one is made in Bozeman while I believe the other "custom shop" models I have were made in Memphis or maybe Nashville (I don't remember which).

 

Also, unlike my vintage L5-C as well as other Gibson hollow bodies I own, when I look at the interior of the guitar through the f-holes, I see no label.

 

And lastly (although it was the first thing that raised some potential red flags) on the back of the headstock where "made in USA" seems to be sort of printed (it is rather hard to see), there are a few relatively small but clearly noticeable indentations in the wood although the finish is intact. I haven't had a chance to photograph this yet, but may add a photo later if I manage to take one where the indentations can be seen clearly.

 

My main question is whether a certificate of authenticity should have been included with the guitar, as well as an internal label? I remember sometime ago when guitars were labeled B-stock or blemished although I don't know whether these days Gibson still releases guitars they label as blemished (and if they do, I don't know how one would identify one as such). In any event, I am wondering whether the lack of a certificate of authentication and internal label might suggest this guitar is some sort of B-stock rather than first-line merchandise. On the other hand, maybe this particular model is sold without the COA and internal label. Any help in answering this would be appreciated as I can return the guitar for a refund if there is a problem with it.

 

Thanks in advance for any help on this.

 

Jay

[JayK]

I'm replying to my own post only as a test. Accordng to what I am seeing on the screen, not a single person has viewed my post let alone responded; this doesn't seem right and I'm wondering whether there is some sort of glitch in the forum software that is preventing people from viewing and/or responding. So, I just want to see whether this reply posts. Sorry about any inconvenience.

 

Edit: After posting this it now shows that 50 people have read the original message. Immediately before posting this it said no one had. I suppose there is some sort of glitch in the counter.

[slimt]

Hello all (my first post here). I just received a new L7-C from Amazon (why Amazon? Well they had them at close-out pricing and have a generous return policy if there is a problem). Although it seems to play well, I have a few concerns and wonder whether anyone here might be able to clarify some things for me. First, unlike every other Gibson Custom Shop guitar I own, this one did not come with a certificate of authentication, although there is a "final checklist" included filled out by "JD" at Gibson. On the other hand, this one is made in Bozeman while I believe the other "custom shop" models I have were made in Memphis or maybe Nashville (I don't remember which).

 

Also, unlike my vintage L5-C as well as other Gibson hollow bodies I own, when I look at the interior of the guitar through the f-holes, I see no label.

 

And lastly (although it was the first thing that raised some potential red flags) on the back of the headstock where "made in USA" seems to be sort of printed (it is rather hard to see), there are a few relatively small but clearly noticeable indentations in the wood although the finish is intact. I haven't had a chance to photograph this yet, but may add a photo later if I manage to take one where the indentations can be seen clearly.

 

My main question is whether a certificate of authenticity should have been included with the guitar, as well as an internal label? I remember sometime ago when guitars were labeled B-stock or blemished although I don't know whether these days Gibson still releases guitars they label as blemished (and if they do, I don't know how one would identify one as such). In any event, I am wondering whether the lack of a certificate of authentication and internal label might suggest this guitar is some sort of B-stock rather than first-line merchandise. On the other hand, maybe this particular model is sold without the COA and internal label. Any help in answering this would be appreciated as I can return the guitar for a refund if there is a problem with it.

 

Thanks in advance for any help on this.

 

Jay

 

 

Pictures?? it should be a Bozeman Guitar

 

I think half of the people here go to bed early... it might be due to age...

[JayK]

Pictures?? it should be a Bozeman Guitar

 

I think half of the people here go to bed early... it might be due to age...

 

Well, I posted initially around 2:30 am (PDT) which either means I don't go to bed early, or I go to bed and wake up way to early. Given this is a forum for musicians I would place my bets on the former.

 

Sorry, I haven't had a chance to take any pictures yet. And yes it is a Bozeman guitar but does have the custom shop logo on the lower headstock (in the back).

 

While I earlier mentioned there are some small indentations on the back of the headstock (which are almost certainly irregular), what I am particularly wondering is whether the Bozeman L7-C's are supposed to ship with COA's and also whether the Bozeman version of the L7-C should (if all is right) have an internal label (which I imagine would be orange or maybe white like in the "olden days"). The fact the Gibson box the guitar was shipped in was badly beaten up, with tape covering up holes (and some holes with no tape over them) adds to my sense of discomfort that something may not be right given it was sold by Amazon as a new guitar.

[slimt]

Its 8;52 pm Apr 3.. here.... as for the L7c.. if your out of country of the U.S.. ussually the wholesaler will pull the Documentation... I know L&M do , aka Yorkville sound... every guitar that was to be a special guitar never came with anything.. even the centennial 1994 Acoustics No papers..and electrics.. No rings or Paper work..

 

your would have a Custom logo on the peg head.. I like the what was new L7cs, there a nice guitar..

[JayK]

Its 8;52 pm Apr 3.. here.... as for the L7c.. if your out of country of the U.S.. ussually the wholesaler will pull the Documentation... I know L&M do , aka Yorkville sound... every guitar that was to be a special guitar never came with anything.. even the centennial 1994 Acoustics No papers..and electrics.. No rings or Paper work..

 

your would have a Custom logo on the peg head.. I like the what was new L7cs, there a nice guitar..

 

I'm in Bellevue, WA maybe 15 miles from Amazon's headquarters (although they shipped the guitar to me from Pennsylvania). I purchased three other Gibson custom shop guitars from Amazon and all had COAs (an SG, 335, and BB King). In other words Amazon typically ships with the COAs when Gibson provides them. However, those three were built in Tennessee, not Montana. So I don't know whether the lack of a COA is owing to differences in protocols at the Bozeman and other custom shops, or whether the lack of a COA and internal label on the L7-C are indicative of some sort of problem with this particular guitar.

[slimt]

My guess would be no... No Coa.. .. the custom shop decal at Bozeman seems to go on every guitar they build.. and the True Gibson Custom shop dyed in the mid 90s..

[jimmyl51]

I am very curious regarding the sunburst finish on your L7c. I had a '64 L7c that I sold due to business issues at the time unfortunately a few years ago. It did have a really nice sunburst to it. The pictures that I have seen of the new L7c's appear to have at least to my eyes an overdone sunburst where the sunburst occupies almost what looks to be almost like 75% of the top. Am I wrong? Your input regarding your new L7c? Also how is the action? Do you have a floating pickup for it? Thanks for your input! jim from Maine currently working in Denver,Colorado

[j45nick]

You might contact Gibson Bozeman to get answers to your questions.

 

I have several high-end Bozeman guitars. None came with the "black book" type of COA I've gotten with electrics from the Nashville custom shop, which I believe are the same as the ones used by the Memphis shop. One Bozeman guitar came with the typical warranty card, checklist, and "owners's manual", plus an 8 1/2x 11 certificate describing the model.

 

As I understand it, the case candy that comes with Gibson acoustics varies pretty significantly from model to model. I wouldn't worry too much about it, although a warranty card would be nice. If it was bought through Amazon, I'm not sure it counts as a new guitar dealer sale for warranty purposes, but Gibson Bozeman could tell you.

 

By the way, there really isn't a Gibson acoustic "custom shop". As I understand it, it is now nothing more than a bench where custom details are completed , as almost all guitars are built on the regular production line. Not sure about the L-7 C, since it is the only archtop built there. Not sure why your guitar has no label. Some high-end repros, like my L-OO Legend, do not have labels because the original guitar it was copied from did not have a label.

 

I have a 1947 L-7 (Kalamazoo-built guitar), so I know how sweet they can be. It has the white oval label and an A-prefix serial number, which was new that year.

 

It isn't always realistic to expect immediate responses to posts here, or even views. The only sub-forum here that often gets immediate views and responses is the Gibson Acoustic sub-forum. You might post this there to get different and more detailed responses.

[floatingpickup]

1396580244[/url]' post='1505694']

Its 8;52 pm Apr 3.. here.... as for the L7c.. if your out of country of the U.S.. ussually the wholesaler will pull the Documentation... I know L&M do , aka Yorkville sound... every guitar that was to be a special guitar never came with anything.. even the centennial 1994 Acoustics No papers..and electrics.. No rings or Paper work..

 

your would have a Custom logo on the peg head.. I like the what was new L7cs, there a nice guitar..

 

I have bought two Gibson Custom Shop guitars from Long & McQuade /Yorkville Sound and both of mine came with COA's and all of the other case paperwork/case candy. Keith

[JayK]

It took me awhile but I finally took some pictures. The first is of the blemishes on the back of the headstock. Not substantial but I'm thinking enough to send the guitar back to Amazon (I already arranged this but haven't gotten around to packing and shipping).

 

 

Since someone asked about the sunburst, here is a picture of the L7-C.

 

 

And for comparison sake, a picture (unfortunately out of focus, but one can still see the way the burst looks) of my 1950 L5-C.

 

[jimmyl51]

Did the L7c come that way with those indentations on the back of the headstock? Assuming that it did I simply cannot believe that it passed a QA inspection. If it did then that is very sad and frankly unbelievable on the part of Gibson. Also is the top of the guitar as dark as the jpeg appears? I had a '64 L7c and the top in no way was as dark as is this guitar unless the jpeg is not accurate. Can I ask you what you paid for this guitar? How is the setup i.e. does it have a nice low action to it? jim in Maine currently working in Denver,Colorado

[JayK]

Did the L7c come that way with those indentations on the back of the headstock? Assuming that it did I simply cannot believe that it passed a QA inspection. If it did then that is very sad and frankly unbelievable on the part of Gibson. Also is the top of the guitar as dark as the jpeg appears? I had a '64 L7c and the top in no way was as dark as is this guitar unless the jpeg is not accurate. Can I ask you what you paid for this guitar? How is the setup i.e. does it have a nice low action to it? jim in Maine currently working in Denver,Colorado

 

Yes, the guitar came that way from Amazon, which was closing these out (I paid about $3,400, but even at such a low price for a new L7-C I am returning it). It was new in the original carton with the warranty card, etc. However, the original carton was really beat up suggesting it was not stored properly. Given the indentations do not seem to break the finish, I am inclined to think Gibson shipped it that way, although given the beat up box I'm not positive it didn't somehow happen in Amazon's warehouse. Also, the carton was beat up in such a way that could not have resulted from shipper's damage (i.e., it was brittle, etc.) so I doubt FedEx contributed to the problem in any way.

 

Yes, the guitar was dark as shown in the photo, although the photo was taken in the shade, which may have slightly darkened things. A comparison to the photo of the L5 taken under the same conditions might help clarify this.

 

And other than the indentations on the back of the headstock, the guitar seemed fine. Low action, no buzzing, and so forth. But at this price point, I can't abide any blemishes on the guitar.

[j45nick]

I am very curious regarding the sunburst finish on your L7c. I had a '64 L7c that I sold due to business issues at the time unfortunately a few years ago. It did have a really nice sunburst to it. The pictures that I have seen of the new L7c's appear to have at least to my eyes an overdone sunburst where the sunburst occupies almost what looks to be almost like 75% of the top. Am I wrong?

 

The bursts are going to vary a lot, whether the guitar is vintage or modern. For reference, here's the one on my 1947 L-7:

 

[slimt]

The do vary alot on Gibson archtops... I like the L7c... the New with a few headstock flaws wouldnt be a concern if the price was right. those were a Bozeman made guitar... I do see there not listed anymore.. not sure why... I have a 52 L7cn..

[floatingpickup]

1397346842[/url]' post='1509072']

Did the L7c come that way with those indentations on the back of the headstock? Assuming that it did I simply cannot believe that it passed a QA inspection. If it did then that is very sad and frankly unbelievable on the part of Gibson. Also is the top of the guitar as dark as the jpeg appears? I had a '64 L7c and the top in no way was as dark as is this guitar unless the jpeg is not accurate. Can I ask you what you paid for this guitar? How is the setup i.e. does it have a nice low action to it? jim in Maine currently working in Denver,Colorado

 

The couple of reissue L7's that I have seen were quite dark like that one. Keith

[endzone]

I realize the age of this post but just wondered the outcome of this guitar...

FWIW, I have a Custom Shop L7-C from '06. I bought it used so I don't have a COA. But, there is no label inside the body. I'm almost certain the guitar the OP showed pics of is a fake. The indentions are the first clue. No Gibson that I've ever seen had that kind of blemish on the Serial # and "Made in USA" stamp. But the biggest clue is the

f-hole binding. L7's don't have binding on the f-holes. I hope the OP sent the guitar back for a refund.

[Sleeko]

I was wondering about that binding. Hmmm.

[JayK]

I realize the age of this post but just wondered the outcome of this guitar...

FWIW, I have a Custom Shop L7-C from '06. I bought it used so I don't have a COA. But, there is no label inside the body. I'm almost certain the guitar the OP showed pics of is a fake. The indentions are the first clue. No Gibson that I've ever seen had that kind of blemish on the Serial # and "Made in USA" stamp. But the biggest clue is the

f-hole binding. L7's don't have binding on the f-holes. I hope the OP sent the guitar back for a refund.

,

I did return it to Amazon. Interesting about the f-hole binding; I missed that issue. I would be interested if others have information about this, e.g., did Gibson decide to add it for some reason to some of the last L7-s they produced? I did show the guitar to the proprietor of archtop.com, as well as my guitar tech/builder who is a bit of a Gibson expert (including vintage instruments), and neither raised the possibility of it being a knock-off. If it were, that would be very interesting given I bought it direct from Amazon, who one would have thought would keep bootleg instruments out of their pipeline. But anything is possible.

[stein]

Interesting about the F-holes.

 

I am a little confused, in that the peghead pic looks genuine, but the f-holes don't to me. I honestly can't tell from here.

 

But what I do know, is that the L-7's Gibby was making recently were not exact copies or reproductions, they were more "high-end" and by a long shot. In particular, they used a flame maple for the back and a sunburst shading there, as they would on an L-5 or the like. A "real" L-7 to origonal spec would have never had it.

 

The L-7c is an interesting deal in that it is the only arch-top from the Montana shop, known for it's quality. And, from the REN era, no less. (All or most made, not sure). Contrast that to the L-5 that has been available off and on.

[endzone]

Since I purchased my L7 4 years ago, I've been tracking Custom Shop L7's. They very occassionally show up on Ebay but as they do, I can say that I've never seen one with f hole binding until just recently. The binding was the first thing I noticed. It just jumped out at me as I looked at the pics....

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gibson-L7-C-Acoustic-Archtop-Vintage-Sunburst-Acoustic-Guitar-/371135885726?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item56696c319e&nma=true&si=QvYNSFt%252BRj9a%252FPBmVUZpy%252FEvuDw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557.

 

Notice that there is no pic of the headstock and the guitar is being sold by, what looks like a furniture wholesaler. I don't know, it just didn't look right...I smelled a rat. As I said, since I've been tracking them, I've never seen one with f hole binding until recently...this one on ebay and now this one posted here. I spoke with the head of Gibson acoustic guitars at the Dallas Guitar Show about L7's. He told me that they are quite rare. That only about 12 or so per year were built. Now they are out of production. Maybe someone custom ordered one with the binding and now it's for sale. I guess a call to Bozeman could answer the question once and for all...