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Truss Rod...counterclockwise TIGHTENS, clockwise LOOSENS...what the?


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New Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Plus

Had issues with fret buzz...posted here about a truss rod that wont loosen (counterclockwise) without more force than I was comfortable with

 

last night I realized if I turn it clockwise (which usually tightens it and takes away relief) the nut got LOOSER...turning it back counterclockwise (which usually loosens it) made it tighter and eventually I couldnt turn anymore without forcing it

 

wtf...can a truss/nut be installed backwards or upside down somehow??

 

I have many epis and have adjust the truss many times in these and have never encountered this??

 

Anyone else have this problem or have any idea what might be happening here??

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If you are starring down the neck from the TOP of the head stock...

 

should go like-a this-a

 

Righty Tighty

Lefty Loosey..

thats exactly how it SHOULD go...ive adjusted truss rods on other guitars zillions of times

 

but when I go to tighten the truss, it gets looser and looser...when I go to loosen the truss rod, it tightens up and within 1/4 turn doesnt want to turn anymore

 

its like the truss has left-hand threads or something...is it possible its completely loosened thats why its locking up, and if I keep tightening it it will get looser and eventually tighten up??

 

Ive never seen this before

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Wow..maybe it was a friday afternoon (you know.. post 3 tini lunch) build!!

 

I agree,, it would puzzle the heck of me too.

 

But I 'spose if it's working in a backwards kinda a way,, that's not a bad thing if you are aware..

 

still don't sound right

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So anyway, to fix the problem, I simply turned the truss rod in the direction that was loosening it...and kept going until it started to tighten and the board started moving in the opposite direction. Dont try and turn the truss rod in the direction that is currently tightening it. Keep loosening it and it will eventually start to tighten again and be in the correct position.

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So anyway, to fix the problem, I simply turned the truss rod in the direction that was loosening it...and kept going until it started to tighten and the board started moving in the opposite direction. Dont try and turn the truss rod in the direction that is currently tightening it. Keep loosening it and it will eventually start to tighten again and be in the correct position.

awesome!

Thanks to all for the tips.

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Your guitar has a dual action truss rod that, for some reason, was adjusted the wrong way and is currently working in the opposite direction. My '61 SG Special was the same way when I got it.

 

Read this.

http://forum.gibson....rod-adjustment/

I am the original poster in the link you site above. I later started another thread to report what I eventually learned re the 2011 50th Anniversary '61 Casino, which was this:

 

Turning the truss rod in a counterclockwise position appeared to tighten the rod (which would normally reduce neck relief), but in actuality it did not. The design of the rod results in it feeling loosest in it's center position. Continuing to turn it counterclockwise, it gets harder to turn as it reaches the end of it's run, but this does not actually add tension to the rod or reduce neck relief.

 

Turning the truss rod clockwise, the rod will once again feel loosest at the center of it's run, but if you just keep going in a clockwise direction, it begins to require more pressure to turn and eventually does add tension to the rod, which reduces neck relief.

 

The bottom line is, it basically ends up functioning similar to every other truss rod you've ever used - righty tighty, lefty loosey!

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I am the original poster in the link you site above. I later started another thread to report what I eventually learned re the 2011 50th Anniversary '61 Casino, which was this:

 

Turning the truss rod in a counterclockwise position appeared to tighten the rod (which would normally reduce neck relief), but in actuality it did not. The design of the rod results in it feeling loosest in it's center position. Continuing to turn it counterclockwise, it gets harder to turn as it reaches the end of it's run, but this does not actually add tension to the rod or reduce neck relief.

 

Turning the truss rod clockwise, the rod will once again feel loosest at the center of it's run, but if you just keep going in a clockwise direction, it begins to require more pressure to turn and eventually does add tension to the rod, which reduces neck relief.

 

The bottom line is, it basically ends up functioning similar to every other truss rod you've ever used - righty tighty, lefty loosey!

 

[thumbup]

Yessir! Dual action.

Mine seemed to be adding tension to the neck going in the opposite direction, but...it wasnt right. The neck was really buzzy and wouldnt adjust properly until I started turning it the other way past the loosest point. Then it started working properly and in the correct direction. I think that when these dual action truss rods are adjusted all the way to the opposite direction, they give the illusion that they are adding tension, and they might be to some degree, but they never adjust correctly until you go back the other way past the loose point.

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I have no idea when Epiphone started using them...or which current models DONT have them. I suppose you could just loosen the truss rod all the way and see if it starts to retighten in the opposite direction. Though, if it is a single action rod, I dont know what will happen. I think it will thread out of the nut at the heel of the neck. Not sure. I really dont know much about truss rods other than my own limited experience with them.

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Ugh

I can not add any more relief to my les paul with the truss rod

It is totally loosed...and I put new fresh 46-10's on her and maybe I will luck out and the neck will settle a bit

 

as of now the action is very slightly higher than I prefer and there is almost NO buzz, but again I have a useless truss rod, no more relief can be attained with the truss...my neck is totally flat, cant get a feeler guage between the low e and a and the 5th through 9th frets when capoed and fretted where the neck joins the body = NO relief

 

not sure if I need a fret dress or what

 

the 30 day return from Guitar Center is over so I am stuck with this...I guess the next time I buy an epiphone I need to bring my capo, measure relief, and take off the truss rod cover and make sure I have some adjustment left...sucks

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the 30 day return from Guitar Center is over so I am stuck with this...

The 30 day return to GC may be up but your warranty should still be good.

If it doesn't work because of a defective part....it should be covered by warrenty.

Call customer service.

 

Just a thought,

 

Willy

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The 30 day return to GC may be up but your warranty should still be good.

If it doesn't work because of a defective part....it should be covered by warrenty.

Call customer service.

 

Just a thought,

 

Willy

Thanks Willy

I emailed customer service and got a reply in like 10 minutes (I was impressed) and they gave me a few local dealers that do warrenty work ( NOT guitar center)...told me to take copy of receipt which I have...

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Ugh

I can not add any more relief to my les paul with the truss rod

It is totally loosed...and I put new fresh 46-10's on her and maybe I will luck out and the neck will settle a bit

 

as of now the action is very slightly higher than I prefer and there is almost NO buzz, but again I have a useless truss rod, no more relief can be attained with the truss...my neck is totally flat, cant get a feeler guage between the low e and a and the 5th through 9th frets when capoed and fretted where the neck joins the body = NO relief

 

not sure if I need a fret dress or what

 

the 30 day return from Guitar Center is over so I am stuck with this...I guess the next time I buy an epiphone I need to bring my capo, measure relief, and take off the truss rod cover and make sure I have some adjustment left...sucks

 

A good tech can probably add some relief to it by leaving it clamped in a bow for a week or so. It's either that or start playing .012s.

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Is that a dare???

;)

 

Seriously, I thought about getting a few packs of 12's and seeing if i like em

 

You could do that, tune them up a step or two, and leave the guitar laying on its back propped up by the end of the neck and see if it starts to bow a bit.

 

I play mostly .010s but a long time ago when I was in a jazz band I played 12s on my brother's SG, tone turned down, mostly on the neck pickup and I was pretty surprised at the thick syrupy jazzy tones an SG can make when setup like that.

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Ugh

I can not add any more relief to my les paul with the truss rod

It is totally loosed...

 

I'm confused now- I've never adjusted a dual-action rod. But, semi-hollowbody, I thought you had found that the loosest position of the nut was the centre position, in between the two directions of tightening. What happened when you turned the nut to the fully anti-clockwise position? Did you have relief then?

 

When adjusting a truss rod I always follow a particular strategy:

 

1) If the nut is moving OK, give it an eighth turn. (semi-h, if you are well away from the limit you can do more, but take it easy)

2) With the guitar in the playing position, place the palm of each hand on the heel, and first few frets on the fingerboard, if you're aiming to reduce relief; or on the upper frets/body join fingerboard side and behind the lower frets on the back of the neck if you're increasing relief. Gently but firmly push your hands onto the neck at 90 degrees, in opposite directions, to facilitate the movement you want to see in the neck. Sometimes you might feel the neck give a little. It sometimes seems like the neck doesn't respond to the truss rod movement and needs a little help.

3) Measure relief.

4) If you need to, repeat the above.

5) If you are unsure how a neck is responding leave it overnight. I've seen necks continue to change over several days.

6) Never do anything out of frustration. Walk away. Drink tea. Come back tomorrow.

 

So semi-hollowbody, that's my question, what happened at the anti-clockwise position? Did you have relief? And my suggestion is, if you have adjusted to near full anticlockwise, try the helping push method along the way, after each adjustment.

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A lot of guitar manufacturers are starting to use 2 way truss rods.

They simply make sense.

They are easier to install, and you can work the neck in both directions.

 

As you turn the adjustment nut to the left, the neck should be getting an "Down Bow" in it, causing a gain in relief, or high action.

 

As you turn to the right, the neck should lose relief and the action should come down.

If the OP needs to gain some string height, turn it to the left.

 

In the building process, sometimes necks will get an up bow in them from the glue. This is probably what has happened to this neck.

You may have to take it in and get the frets leveled, but you should be able to adjust the neck to what you need.

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I think mine was the same way. I just held the guitar between my legs sorta and at the headstock and hit both sides (the fret side and the back side) with the heel of the hand to help get it started. New guitar I guess whatever reason, but the truss rod just don't seem to work at first. And after adjusting it a little the same thing, and again and again while adjusting the neck to make sure everything was moving (the neck) to make sure it would be corrected correctly.

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A lot of guitar manufacturers are starting to use 2 way truss rods.

They simply make sense.

They are easier to install, and you can work the neck in both directions.

 

As you turn the adjustment nut to the left, the neck should be getting an "Down Bow" in it, causing a gain in relief, or high action.

 

As you turn to the right, the neck should lose relief and the action should come down.

If the OP needs to gain some string height, turn it to the left.

 

In the building process, sometimes necks will get an up bow in them from the glue. This is probably what has happened to this neck.

You may have to take it in and get the frets leveled, but you should be able to adjust the neck to what you need.

 

So If my double-action truss rod is in the center, LOOSE position...if I turn it counter-clockwise it should continue to add relief? I thought it would straighten the neck out when it starts to get tight, no matter what direction I turn it in

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Something that would prevent confusion on this and other aspects of different guitars would be for both Epiphone and Gibson to supply GUITAR SPECIFIC OWNERS MANUALS instead of the general guide which seems to come with all their guitars. They save a few dollars on print costs but lose out on customer satisfaction big time. I have just bought a 20th Anniversary Gibson and , guess what, it just has the same crappy general owners guide that my Epiphone Les Paul had. The only difference seems to be that this crappy guide has Gibson printed on it.

If you spend your hard earned dollars on a new guitar, you should at least get good information on it to help you get the best out of it and not make potentially expensive mistakes, such as seriously mis adjusting your truss rod.

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So If my double-action truss rod is in the center, LOOSE position...if I turn it counter-clockwise it should continue to add relief? I thought it would straighten the neck out when it starts to get tight, no matter what direction I turn it in

 

ok, so when I bought my '61 SG Special, it also had a ton of back bow, for whatever reason. I made the guy at Guitar Center straighten it for me...though it seems that he is the one who went the wrong way with the truss rod. Either way, this guitar had so much back bow that when he loosened the truss rod, he was literally cranking on the neck to put relief in it. The way he was handling the guitar neck, I thought he was going to snap it (luckily i hadnt paid for it yet). He had one hand on the back of the headstock and one hand in the middle of the top of the neck and was manually putting relief in the neck by pulling on it because it was so out of whack.

 

I dont suggest doing this at home, but sometimes that is what it takes. Also, if your neck had that much back bow, it might take a couple days for the wood to settle into a relief position.

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Something that would prevent confusion on this and other aspects of different guitars would be for both Epiphone and Gibson to supply GUITAR SPECIFIC OWNERS MANUALS instead of the general guide which seems to come with all their guitars. They save a few dollars on print costs but lose out on customer satisfaction big time. I have just bought a 20th Anniversary Gibson and , guess what, it just has the same crappy general owners guide that my Epiphone Les Paul had. The only difference seems to be that this crappy guide has Gibson printed on it.

If you spend your hard earned dollars on a new guitar, you should at least get good information on it to help you get the best out of it and not make potentially expensive mistakes, such as seriously mis adjusting your truss rod.

I spent my hard earned dollars at guitar center and did not get ANY users manual!

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