Friday not so funny

[jannusguy2]

http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/Alt-rock_band_sentenced_for_targeting_pawn_shops_with_fake_Martin_high-end_guitars.html

[kidblast]

a--holes.

[BigKahune]

.

That's about as low as it gets - musicians selling counterfeit guitars.

 

 

.

[bobouz]

A true group of bottom feeders.

[milod]

Sounds more like a band of brigands than a band of musicians.

 

Sheesh.

 

m

[milod]

I think Nick pretty well hit it.

 

We can argue politics for about 30 seconds if we're hanging onto the thread - before it's locked.

 

But on a personal basis... these guys were doing what hurts folks who ain't wealthy. Imagine a beginner trying to step up and buying a "D18" used Martin for the absolute edge of what you could afford if you eat nothing but ramen noodles or mac and cheese for three months or more - only to find it's a fake worth at most a hundred bucks?

 

I may have done the mac and cheese bit for a guitar, but at least I got what it was labeled as being.

 

m

[jannusguy2]

As the OP, I'm for staying on topic, FWIW. My perpetual outrage generator is in the shop. I expect to get it back in Sept.

[milod]

[MissouriPicker]

Some people who play guitar are creeps. We already know that. The only difference is that some are "creepier" than others.

[fortyearspickn]

Funny comments after article. One guy implies it's ok for the band to do this, because a person buying a Martin should know what they sound like and otherwise sort of deserve to get cheated. Another lambasts Wall Street, while another says Pawn Shops are evil and should be outlawed. I'm sensing a wiring problem with some folks who think the actual crime and criminals are not the real problem. Makes the comments we write here look insightful, educated and erudite.

Thanks Jannusguy . Sounds like, as all of us, you've heard the song "Let It Go" from "Frozen" one too many times.

My Sense of Outrage is up on cinder blocks as a front lawn ornament.

[ballcorner]

I am not saying what these guys did was right, but morally, if they were going to pull the scam -- better to do it on pawn shops than regular folks.

 

I had a few "friends" in the pawn business when i owned a guitar shop. If they got anything good in, they called me to sell it. I am not saying they are crooks, but they really had little or no empathy for the clients who brought them product. In one specific case, I was brought a rare Martin ('69 D-41, Brazilian Rosewood) that was one of less than 40 made by a pawnbroker who bought it (1998) from someone down on their luck for $1200 cash. When I bought it from him for the $1700 asking price the same day, I asked him for the paperwork on the seller because it was a $10,000 guitar, so I was willing to split the profit with the original owner. The pawnbroker refused to give me the paperwork unless he got 1/3 of the action, so I had to find the guy myself.

 

That guitar today can sell around $20,000 or more if in excellent shape.

 

Again, I am not condoning the faking, the selling or the crime, but if it had to happen because this band is so lousy they can't make a living, then I feel better about the pawn shops being the victims than anybody else.

 

if you can't tell a real guitar from a fake guitar, you have no business being in the guitar business. I would love to know which guitars they used to do the fakes. I suspect Tanglewoods. Was that information in any articles?

[slimt]

I am not saying what these guys did was right, but morally, if they were going to pull the scam -- better to do it on pawn shops than regular folks.

 

I had a few "friends" in the pawn business when i owned a guitar shop. If they got anything good in, they called me to sell it. I am not saying they are crooks, but they really had little or no empathy for the clients who brought them product. In one specific case, I was brought a rare Martin ('69 D-41, Brazilian Rosewood) that was one of less than 40 made by a pawnbroker who bought it (1998) from someone down on their luck for $1200 cash. When I bought it from him for the $1700 asking price the same day, I asked him for the paperwork on the seller because it was a $10,000 guitar, so I was willing to split the profit with the original owner. The pawnbroker refused to give me the paperwork unless he got 1/3 of the action, so I had to find the guy myself.

 

That guitar today can sell around $20,000 or more if in excellent shape.

 

Again, I am not condoning the faking, the selling or the crime, but if it had to happen because this band is so lousy they can't make a living, then I feel better about the pawn shops being the victims than anybody else.

 

if you can't tell a real guitar from a fake guitar, you have no business being in the guitar business. I would love to know which guitars they used to do the fakes. I suspect Tanglewoods. Was that information in any articles?

 

First off.. I wouldnt tell the pawnbrokers anything.. most are Not that bright.. and most sure know how to take advantage of the customers that walk in.. I always offer starting low. . because they do it as well... and in most cases.. they always think they have Top notch crap.. :) they are snakes in the grass..

[Fullmental Alpinist]

When I bought it from him for the $1700 asking price the same day, I asked him for the paperwork on the seller because it was a $10,000 guitar, so I was willing to split the profit with the original owner.

 

Wow. Will you be my friend?

 

What was the original owner's reaction when you gave him the cash? Floored I hope.

 

FMA

[j45nick]

I am not saying what these guys did was right, but morally, if they were going to pull the scam -- better to do it on pawn shops than regular folks.

 

 

You seem to miss the point that the pawnbroker was going to sell it to some unsuspecting shopper for a lot more than he paid for it, particularly if he believed it was a real Martin, maybe even if he didn't. The final purchaser is going to be the guy taking the hit, not the pawnbroker.

[fortyearspickn]

Ballcorner, the pawnshop fills a need. They've existed for years. The workers cannot be as expert in guitars, electric and acoustic, drums, keyboards, jewelry, firearms, tools, saddles, and everything else -as experts like you. In your anecdote, the pawn shop guy couldn't have known the guitar was worth $10k, or he would have charged you more than $1700. From his point of view, you as his erstwhile business contact /expert unearthed the rare case of his having made a great bargain. He wanted 1/3rd because he made the deal happen. The owner got 1/3rd as a windfall and you got 1/3 rd as payment for being the only one who knew the true value of the guitar. Given a scenario where an owner somehow doesn't know the value of something in his possession, I think that the 1/3rd split was actually fair. No one forces people to pawn their stuff. It is a sad situation, but it is a part of "life" sometimes. And, not to be cynical, but the pawnshop person has to assume that if the owner is willing to take $1200, the guitar must not be worth more than $1700. Or it is hot. Or maybe even a counterfeit.

It is definitely not "less a crime" if you try to rip off a pawn shop with counterfeit guitars. The Band should be playing in The Big House.

[milod]

Nick hit the nail on the head... the person who ends up in the hurt from this one is the poor slob who buys a counterfeit.

 

Now if the pawn shop owner knows, or learns, that the instrument is a forgery and jacks up the price, he then becomes also in effect a thief or scammer, however you wish to put it.

 

But as Nick noted, it's the buyer who is the victim.

 

Unless the pawn shop can be shown to be complicit, one way or another, in sale of counterfeit goods, they also are a victim.

 

All kidding aside, I wish sometimes that everyone had an enforced opportunity to operate a small "ma and pa" business to learn what it's like when there is no paycheck coming at regular time periods. And then, to have folks suggest they're somehow "cheating" because without a profit, they're outa business. Frankly even the Soviet Union's communist philosophy gave up on the idea there should only be government-operated businesses at the smallest levels of the economy, and that only a profit would keep someone in business and make the work worthwhile.

 

m