tipp55 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Hi all, I am considering a couple of L 5 Wes Montgomerys for sale. Both seem in immaculate condition from reliable music stores and I'm wondering if there build differences worth noting from 2003 model to 2014. The 2003 is signed by James Hutchins http://www.fine-instruments.net/images/gibson/wes11.jpg and the 2014 is brand new and I believe, signed by Phillip Whorton. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iYLtBjAQSuU/U5BFppFbeAI/AAAAAAAAXCg/Kk_VNL0rBfg/w728-h546-no/IMG_7483.JPG Apart from the benefits (and extra cost) of buying new, is there any perceived difference in quality, fit & finish etc. from 2003 and 2014? I'll be buying sight unseen. I'm in Europe by the way, as are both guitars. Thanks for any advice/information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Definitely the 2003. Both look very nice indeed but the 2003 is by a 'name' master luthier. Last year I asked a highly reputable guitar maker and repairman how Gibson is doing in his opinion and he said that from what he sees, the quality has slipped a little since the early 2000s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny W. Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Definitely the 2003. Both look very nice indeed but the 2003 is by a 'name' master luthier. Last year I asked a highly reputable guitar maker and repairman how Gibson is doing in his opinion and he said that from what he sees, the quality has slipped a little since the early 2000s. I have a 20111 WesMo and several from the early 2000's and don't see any difference in quality. Sounds like the typical blather you hear from any repair person, about which I have a personal story: I bought my first archtop, a Gibson L-5C, new in 1959. It needed some setup work, which I hadn't yet learned to do, so I took it to the tech at the place (famous Brooklyn store) from which I had bought it. He told me that new Gibsons were junk--way overbuilt to reduce warranty claims and more furniture than musical instruments. According to him, the prewar days were the best and everything since was unplayable firewood. Remember, he was talking about a guitar from what collectors deem Gibson's "Golden Era." I owned that guitar for 40 years and it was a fabulous instrument. As for the label, I wouldn't pay any attention to it. I have never found that "Hutch"-signed guitars are any nicer than any of the other ones I own, all of which are quite nice. If it were me I'd order them both and return the one I liked least, if that's possible, or go with the color you like most. In the US, the warranty has a lot of value, but I believe that it's more limited in Europe, so not sure how much I'd pay for it, which would lean me towards the 2003 anyway if there were a significant difference in price. Disclaimer: The only recent Gibson I've seen is my Wes, which was a custom-shop order, so I'm basing this on a really small sample. Danny W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeko Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Wow, both very nice, very different colors as well. What are the prices of each? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 1. The 2003 will cost you less. 2. The 2003 is in fact associated with more of a "name" luthier. 3. The 2003 has a red finish, which is traditionally more unusual and rare than sunburst. I would be strongly leaning toward the '03. Do you have photos of the backs of the guitars? I'm wondering what the grain comparison would look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipp55 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Wow, both very nice, very different colors as well. What are the prices of each? The red 2003 is €6995 Euro (= 9,414.06 USD) The sellers of the sunburst 2014 haven't responded to my request re. price, shipping etc. I'm practically decided on the 2003......I love that red finish, and the guitar is apparently unplayed from new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipp55 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 1. The 2003 will cost you less.2. The 2003 is in fact associated with more of a "name" luthier. 3. The 2003 has a red finish, which is traditionally more unusual and rare than sunburst. I would be strongly leaning toward the '03. Do you have photos of the backs of the guitars? I'm wondering what the grain comparison would look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Ouch. $9400 is way too high a price for a guitar like that, no matter how nice it may look. I know things may be more expensive over there, but I can't imagine shipping being so expensive that you couldn't find a better deal by buying from a U.S. source. For example (newly listed on ebay recently): http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Gibson-Custom-Shop-L5-Wes-Montgomery-Crimson-Collection-/251568899443?pt=Guitar&hash=item3a92acc573 (and this one is actually priced a bit higher than some used models here in the U.S.) Edit: Nice wood. Thanks for the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipp55 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 For example (newly listed on ebay recently): http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a92acc573 (and this one is actually priced a bit higher than some used models here in the U.S.) I have the eBay one watched. When I do the sums and the import duty and taxes, it comes to €6,550, just €50 approx. less expensive than the one I'm eyeing in Germany. The German store is giving me €50 discount so the prices are more or less identical! I live in Ireland and we are really shafted with getting guitars from the USA. Works like this: take price of guitar from USA and add the shipping. Add 3.7% import tax to that lot and then add 23% to that total. You may also need a CITES declaration in case of Ivory, Braz. Rosewood and the like. Agreed the red Gibby from Germany is pricy but that's pretty much how things are here. The USA was once a great option for cheaper guitars, but it's not as easy as it once was :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sofaplayer Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I've been watching that red WesMo for years. It just doesn't sell because the price is too high. Every time the prices for new Gibson L5s are raised, the seller raises the price for this red WesMo. A few years ago I could have bought it for 6000. I didn't. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Love the red one. Guitar Center/Musician's Friend in the USA currently has a new red one priced at $7,999. They will almost always do some dealing, and Guitar Center advertises that they ship overseas. Return policies in the USA are very workable, but I have no knowledge re instruments shipped out of the country. Guitar Center has brick & mortar big box stores all over the country, while sharing the same online inventory as Musician's Friend. They also list their used inventory online, and occasionally a gem can be found lurking in there. Musician's Friend is strictly an online branch of the overall operation. Call and ask for Chris Swope (previously worked for Gibson), and he will give you a very honest assessment of the red Wes. You can also inquire about shipping & returns. Personally, I won't buy any instrument sight unseen without a solid & reasonable return policy. Best of luck in your quest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Musician's Friend is strictly an online branch of the overall operation. Call and ask for Chris Swope (previously worked for Gibson), and he will give you a very honest assessment of the red Wes. You can also inquire about shipping & returns. Re my post above, the serial number is 10364003, so it was made in February of this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipp55 Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 Guitar Center/Musician's Friend in the USA currently has a new red one priced at $7,999. Even at $7,999 and say, $120 for shipping to Europe, when you add the duty and V.A.T. for Ireland, it comes to around $10,200( €7,594) which is €1100 more expensive than the one in Germany. Also, they (http://www.fine-instruments.net/)have agreed to 48 hrs approval if I decide to buy. Looks like it's a Europe purchase for me this time if it works out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny W. Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I have nothing useful to add to this thread, but I thought I'd help move things along by posting a photo of me playing my red 1996 WesMo about 12 years ago: Danny W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazzGtr Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I currently own a 2003 Gibson L5 Wes Montgomery. As the wood ages, the better it sounds. But that's true with most natural wood guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Personally I'd love a red L5 Wes. Just cos its red. I've got a few L series and all are either natural or Vintage Sunburst. But for me I want a red one - faded cherry!! For the last 12 months I've been trying to get an L5 CT in faded cherry. And if I find one I'm never going to let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny W. Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 For the last 12 months I've been trying to get an L5 CT in faded cherry. And if I find one I'm never going to let it go. That gives me an excuse to post this one: Danny W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeko Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Red? Who mentioned red?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Red? Who mentioned red?! Very nice. L4CES. Mahogany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeko Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Very nice. L4CES. Mahogany? Thanks - maple! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Through a USA Princeton Chorus? Nice! I've got the slightly earlier red knob, a very sweet amp for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeko Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Through a USA Princeton Chorus? Nice! I've got the slightly earlier red knob, a very sweet amp for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 My L4 CES Mahogany with Benedetto pickups (S6's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeko Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 My L4 CES Mahogany with Benedetto pickups (S6's) Very nice. Being mahogany, does your guitar have the red stain all around the body or just on the spruce top? I think on some of the mahogany sunburst models only the top is done up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Very nice. Being mahogany, does your guitar have the red stain all around the body or just on the spruce top? I think on some of the mahogany sunburst models only the top is done up. Hi Sleeko. Mine is red all over and is I think a 2005 model. Haven't seen the partially painted L4's. Quite like the tone but my initial pickups were very thin and with excessive treble. I had to turn the tone down to 2 so in the end I swapped out the pickups and put in Benedetto S6's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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