Kelvinator Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I Played a very large venue Saturday night with a new sound man, and it was a struggle. We like to keep the stage volume at a reasonable level, so I don't use a huge bass amp for most gigs. With a 4X10 cab behind me, I can't hear the bass the way I like, so I bring a 2X10 monitor to put a bit of bass and electronic drums in front of me just for definition (I know - electronic drums; that's a whole nother thread!). This set-up works perfectly with our regular sound man, but Saturday was a nightmare. The tone of the bass was horrible through the monitor, and occasionally the keys would come blasting through at "rip your ears off" levels. I told him several times - "just bass & drums", but it didn't sink in; I got keys, vocals, guitar AND a crappy bass tone. I finally had him eliminate everything but the drums in that monitor, cranked my amp a bit, and the sound on stage improved quite a bit. I just hope the tone of the bass was better out front than it was though that monitor, but I have my doubts... I think most of us here put quite a bit of effort into trying to get that elusive perfect sound: the right guitar, amp, effects, speakers, strings, settings, etc., and then what do we do? Plug in a mic or DI and give it to a guy who has his own ideas of what we should sound like. Just venting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10K-DB Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I Played a very large venue Saturday night with a new sound man, and it was a struggle. We like to keep the stage volume at a reasonable level, so I don't use a huge bass amp for most gigs. With a 4X10 cab behind me, I can't hear the bass the way I like, so I bring a 2X10 monitor to put a bit of bass and electronic drums in front of me just for definition (I know - electronic drums; that's a whole nother thread!). This set-up works perfectly with our regular sound man, but Saturday was a nightmare. The tone of the bass was horrible through the monitor, and occasionally the keys would come blasting through at "rip your ears off" levels. I told him several times - "just bass & drums", but it didn't sink in; I got keys, vocals, guitar AND a crappy bass tone. I finally had him eliminate everything but the drums in that monitor, cranked my amp a bit, and the sound on stage improved quite a bit. I just hope the tone of the bass was better out front than it was though that monitor, but I have my doubts... I think most of us here put quite a bit of effort into trying to get that elusive perfect sound: the right guitar, amp, effects, speakers, strings, settings, etc., and then what do we do? Plug in a mic or DI and give it to a guy who has his own ideas of what we should sound like. Just venting. I 'hear" ya about this type of thing,,,Ive found that if we were doing a "warm-up " gig for a headliner band that plays after us,,we usually get "less than perfect" attention to what we hear and want onstage,,but if we were the main act for the night,,our sound guy really takes care of things,,you didnt mention if you were main act,,or a warm-up spot? Maybe it may not matter in this case/show you posted about. Good luck w/your new team member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 It saddens me when I see a young musician on national TV, getting their first "big break" and the sound people screw the balance up so you can barely hear the singing, mostly just drums and bass. Imagine if that had happened to The Beatles on their first televised appearance, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Live sound mix is always a tightrope walk! I too love gigging with electronic drums! I think there's simply more versatility in smaller clubs and gigs of that nature where you can control the volume far more easily and keep a better and sometimes quieter mix with better balance... I've never really worked with a sound-man. Mostly had bar owners or gig promoters tell us to turn down more than anything... I've learned that a good mix and volume level is where I can barely hear myself stand out against the mix. Loud enough to hear clear definition and distinction and I'm too loud in regards to the whole band's mix... Never really used a monitor, although I think I would like it. Never really mic'ed my amp. Usually the only thing mic'ed are the vocals, the eDrums are amplified and go into the PA head/mixer while the drummer uses the amp as his own monitor because the PA speakers are usually out front of him and facing away. The bass and guitars have to gauge volumes based upon the PA vocal & drum mix. We've gotten into volume wars on more than one occasion, but generally hold a pretty good mix together, but often the guitars are told to turn down... Usually multiple members of a mix-and-match project lineup take turns giving input to the drummer who owns and mixes the PA during the gig and he makes adjustments as needed as do the guitars and base volume-wise... There's one venue I missed the gig where they were all thru a sound board with a sound guy and the gig sounded like crap until the last set before they got it right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I fear the sound guy lacked knowing what doing. Working on a mixing desk previuosly unknown to the technician is a challenge, and one will have to take time to get acquainted with it. I guess the guy didn't do that. Never loved electronic drums but also never had serious trouble with real acoustic ones, neither as vocalist, guitarist, bassist, and drummer, nor as a sound technician. In many cases I had to deal with equipment I saw and heard for the first time in my life, and had to serve both FOH and stage monitoring. I always tried to make all of my mistakes before admission of the audience, and to kill neither ears nor speakers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Jimi, you've more experience than me (I''m a beginner with about a dozen gigs over past year or 2) but I have already learned that when it goes wrong it really goes wrong! Volume levels - whether they be personal amp,monitor or PA remain an unsolved mystery to me - we have a decent sound guy but I still struggle to get my levels right most of the time (when I even remember) Cap - our guy had to use a desk he'd not used before when we were part of a small 'festival' gig and I think it was digital versus ours being analogue (or something like that) - challenging is a good word!! First time I've seen singers abandoning their mics and using instrument mics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvinator Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 I fear the sound guy lacked knowing what doing. Working on a mixing desk previuosly unknown to the technician is a challenge, and one will have to take time to get acquainted with it. I guess the guy didn't do that. This tech is a regular with the sound company we use, and should be familiar with the system; but in fairness to him, he was new to our band. I'm over it now. As long as it sounded good out front, I'm OK with it. After all, everyone has a bad night once in a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Bill Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Hmmm...I'm thinking a sound company that starts with "R" or possibly a tech with the initials KJ??? Where was the gig?? Sunset beach?? PM me if you want to keep it under wraps.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Yea man it's hit or miss isn't it. During the 1,000s of gigs that I've done, the only way it really worked for me, (or for us) was when we knew the sound man, and the sound man knew us. Worked for 15 years in a band with ONE sound guy. he was paid as an equal. We made 200, he made 200... He worked with us non-stop... every gig,... same gear, same set up.. the only variable was the venue. (he is also my brother inlaw {George} and my best friend, and a good guitar player as well.) But, truth is, this cat knows what he's doing, best ears in the bizz, missed a trick, ever.... Today, it's either, set it up and guess from behind the house speakers, or hire a guy and hope he's good. (we've been lucky there, we've hired one guy for two shows now, and he's done a decent job. he will become the next "George"!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 We had a supplied "Sound man" at a battle of the bands/"Rockfest" here, several years ago. He totally sabotaged "our" sound, and that of several other bands. Mic feedback, off the wall "mixes," etc. Turns out, he was with the "winning" band, who oddly enough(NOT!!) had awesome sound/mix! Hmmm, wonder why?! LOL That same guy kept telling me my Fender Blues Jr. was "so loud, he couldn't balance it," yet had no trouble with his band's 100 watt Marshall stacks! Pffffft!!! Never again!!! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 ... Cap - our guy had to use a desk he'd not used before when we were part of a small 'festival' gig and I think it was digital versus ours being analogue (or something like that) - challenging is a good word!! First time I've seen singers abandoning their mics and using instrument mics! Necessity is the mother of invention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 We had a supplied "Sound man" at a battle of the bands/"Rockfest" here, several years ago. He totally sabotaged "our" sound, and that of several other bands. Mic feedback, off the wall "mixes," etc. Turns out, he was with the "winning" band, who oddly enough(NOT!!) had awesome sound/mix! Hmmm, wonder why?! LOL That same guy kept telling me my Fender Blues Jr. was "so loud, he couldn't balance it," yet had no trouble with his band's 100 watt Marshall stacks! Pffffft!!! Never again!!! CB Sadly, no one knows before what "talents" might have melted together in a particular person. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I would like the rip the ears off most sound men. I honestly think these guys have been listening to too much heavy metal all their lives and this is the only playing gig they can get. I went to a Cheryl Crow concert about a year ago. You could barely hear the music above the, "THUMP... THUMP THUMP.... THUMP.... THUMP THUMP" of the drums. Even during a couple 'acoustic Bluegrass' numbers that is ALL you could hear, no guitar, no banjo, no voices, just incessant thump of the bass drum. Honestly, someone should have reminded Ms. Crow that drums in Bluegrass is verboten. I will reiterate an earlier complaint about drums, "On what planet do drums need to be mic'd and amplified?????" I just wanted to grab the sound guy, shake him, and tell him to get some hearing aids. Do these shows use their own sound men, or are the sound men employed by the venue? Honestly, this sound man didn't do Sheryl Crow any favors. This concert put me off live concerts for quite a while. That and what is it with folks standing through most of the first 10 numbers? I mean, you paid for the seat, USE IT! That and, "Get off my lawn!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 We had a supplied "Sound man" at a battle of the bands/"Rockfest" here, several years ago. He totally sabotaged "our" sound, and that of several other bands. Mic feedback, off the wall "mixes," etc. Turns out, he was with the "winning" band, who oddly enough(NOT!!) had awesome sound/mix! Hmmm, wonder why?! LOL That same guy kept telling me my Fender Blues Jr. was "so loud, he couldn't balance it," yet had no trouble with his band's 100 watt Marshall stacks! Pffffft!!! Never again!!! CB That one is familiar to me too. I hate those showcases and battles, no more thankyou I'm far too old now! Also I remember playing the Rock Garden, a then-trendy basement in Covent Garden London in the 80s and being warned that we had to absolutely obey what the sound man said. He wouldn't let me turn the Twin up above 3. Well if you know a Twin, they only start to sing at about 3 1/2. Went home as depressed as I ever have been after a gig that night. But the real trouble is that years of exposure to high decibel levels has literally destroyed the 'average' soundman's hearing above about 3-4khz, so he/they will boost those frequencies and levels to compensate for it; this doesn't account for the bass and/or bass drum level which is invariably far too high unless the music being amplified is jazz.......I remember a Gary Moore concert where Neil Murray's bass was so ear-bleedingly loud you couldn't actually hear the notes if you understand what I mean - just an enormous unmusical noise. And so to get over that, the guy boosts the highs even more. On the other hand, I've done sound myself and it is very difficult if you don't know the desk, band or the music...and the drummer wants 'his' snare sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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