LPguitarman Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Hi folks, I bought a brand new Gibson Songwriter Deluxe Electric Acoustic back in January. When I got it, it had Gibson 12 guage stings and the tone was awesome but I just couldn't handle the 12's for playability. So, I took it to a local luthier and had him set it up for 10's. (nut, saddle etc...) I also had him lower the action. My question is, will the string guage affect the tone that much? The tone really sounds flat and quiet compared to the 12's.(unplugged). How can I get better tone with lower guage strings? Should I try some different strings,(brand name)? I'm really to the point where I don't like playing the guitar because it's a Gibson and I thought it would sound better than my old non-electric Ovation that I sold. The only advantage I have is it has a cutaway and it's electric. It sounds good plugged in, but I'm looking for a good unplugged tone too. BTW, I am mostly an electric guitar man,(Gibson Les Paul). So I'm not as savvy with the acoustic side. Thanks for any input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Mmmm, quite unlucky situation. My advice : First offer a new set of 12's to see if you recognize the sound you bought in the first place - then go to 11's. There is some mystery about the strings Gibson puts on from the plant. Some will tell you they are NOT what they claim they are. . But yes, , , sometimes gauge means more than one would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Mmmm, quite unlucky situation. My advice : First offer a new set of 12's to see if you recognize the sound you bought in the first place - then go to 11's. There is some mystery about the strings Gibson puts on from the plant. Some will tell you they are NOT what they claim they are. . But yes, , , sometimes gauge means more than one would think. If I go back to 12's or 11's, I'll probably need a truss rod adjustment, right? I looked in another thread talking about tone etc... what exactly are 80/20 strings? Can I get them at Guitar Center? Can I get 80/20 with 10 guage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I can't speak for your model but on a whim the last time I strung up my 1942 J-50 I slapped lights on it. I let them settle in a few days to give them a chance but off they came. I do not think it is as much a tone thing as the strings having less tension do not allow for as sharp an attack which robs the guitar of some of its percussiveness and punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 I can't speak for your model but on a whim the last time I strung up my 1942 J-50 I slapped lights on it. I let them settle in a few days to give them a chance but off they came. I do not think it is as much a tone thing as the strings having less tension do not allow for as sharp an attack which robs the guitar of some of its percussiveness and punch. When you say "lights", what guage is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 "will the string guage affect the tone that much?" 'Fraid so. It's basic physics: string pull on the bridge drives the top, and hence the sound. No pull, no response. Changing brand or composition (80/20) wont help if the gauge is too light. Since the guitar is optimized for 12s ('light guage' for acoustics) , an 11' set would be a compromise -- a little less pull but more string than you are used to. Whether or not you can make that work depends on how the instrument is used. It's not going to be great for lightning runs or wide bends. But it can be great for pumping chords, banging riffs and strumming arpeggios--rhythm stuff. For that, more string will be an advantage because you will get a dynamic sound and stay in tune. ps 80/20s have a brighter sound than std PBs. Same string guage rules apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kebob Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 My advice: toughen up your fingers and learn to play lights (12-53 gauge) on your Gibson acoustic. You'll get better sound. At the very least, I'd go 11 gauge. You're used to electric guitars. Acoustic is a different animal and it sounds like you aren't used to it yet. You've got a great guitar - use strings that bring out the best in it (lights) and learn to adapt. This is the big divide between electric and acoustic players. I'm curious as to your playing style -- are you trying to do big lead runs on your acoustic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 My advice: toughen up your fingers and learn to play lights (12-53 gauge) on your Gibson acoustic. You'll get better sound. Plus 1 If I go back to 12's or 11's, I'll probably need a truss rod adjustment, right? I looked in another thread talking about tone etc... what exactly are 80/20 strings? Can I get them at Guitar Center? Can I get 80/20 with 10 guage? Maybe, maybe not. But yes, you have to consider action (string height over the fret-board) as a sonic factor too. The most important is of course that you still dig the Songwriter Deluxe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 My advice: toughen up your fingers and learn to play lights (12-53 gauge) on your Gibson acoustic. You'll get better sound. At the very least, I'd go 11 gauge. You're used to electric guitars. Acoustic is a different animal and it sounds like you aren't used to it yet. You've got a great guitar - use strings that bring out the best in it (lights) and learn to adapt. This is the big divide between electric and acoustic players. I'm curious as to your playing style -- are you trying to do big lead runs on your acoustic? A little of everything. Strumming, finger picking, picking with a pick, and yes probably trying to do too much electric lead style runs. You're right. I invested way too much in this beauty to give it up this easily. If I toughen up my fingers for acoustic with 12's, playing my Les Paul will even be easier than it is now. I'll probably go back to 12's. I still have an extra set of Gibson's that Sweetwater sent me with the guitar. Do you think I'll have to do anything to the bridge? The luthier put 11's on it (down from the original 12's), so he set it up for 11's. I put 10's on myself and had him do a slight truss rod adjustment for the 10's. Hoping putting 12's back on will just need another truss rod tweak. Thanks for straightening me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Plus 1 Maybe, maybe not. But yes, you have to consider action (string height over the fret-board) as a sonic factor too. The most important is of course that you still dig the Songwriter Deluxe. Thanks for your advice... Just shows once again how great the Gibson Forum is for guitar advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubee Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Yes, if it was set up for 11s it should be fine to go back to 12s with just a truss rod tweak, if that. IME with dozens of guitars over dozens of years it is a very rare dread guitar what will sound good with 10s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Yes, if it was set up for 11s it should be fine to go back to 12s with just a truss rod tweak, if that. IME with dozens of guitars over dozens of years it is a very rare dread guitar what will sound good with 10s. Well that answers that then. No 10's on a Dread Style Acoustic. Should have listened to my luthier. Live and learn. My mind was tougher than my fingers. Already have tough fingers from normal guitar playing, but I'll just have to play more with 12's and get them tougher. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Again, I do think string gauge impacts what I call tone - but volume, presence, sustain, yeah. To my ears, the heavier the gauge the more you will get what your guitar has to give mainly because you will be driving the top more. Your guitar will still have say its characteristic mids - but they will just not be as forceful because the lighter the gauge the less energy your are pushing through the bridge to be sent to the top. It is like an electric. No matter what gauge strings you have on it a Strat will still sound like a Strat and a Tele like a Tele. But pickups certainly read thicker strings better than thinner ones and you will get a bit thicker sound which will ring out a bit longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I used to use 10s too (years ago) and what has been said is a fact, the lighter gauge the string, the less energy to work the top. I think I went form 10s, to 11s for a while, then I started using 12s, and have not gone back down a gauge. Funny thing is, I was sent a set of 11 Elixr 80/20s a few months ago by mistake, (I miss fired on the online order) I figured, what the heck, I'll try em,.. 20 minutes later, I was restringing again with 12s. they just went "plink!".. if you are ALWAYS plugged in, the lighter gauge strings may not be as much of a noticable buzz kill for your guitars top, but acoustically, they just don't create enough energy. So it's 12s for me I have small hands, and they pose no problems at all. At first it was like "Ouch" but, my hands adjusted, as did my callouses. you mentioned some concern about the change to your approach when soloing? Well yea, I guess maybe at first.. once you get used to them, you'll be okay. oh and this question here: When you say "lights", what guage is that? 12s are considered Light I believe whit most string brands.. 13s "Regular" 11s "extra light" 10s "ultra light" ? (not 100% sure..) by the way, how often do you play acoustic? that has a lot to do with how you'll mange the "curve" regarding neck relief.. I would say when you decide to restring with 12s, check it at first, it may not show a need for an adjustment, but let it sit for a bit, then check your neck relief again. after a day or so, you may find that you need to tighten a 1/4 turn or so. as I'm sure you know, you just want to go slowly, baby steps. never more than a 1/4 to 1/2 turn at one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kebob Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 A little of everything. Strumming, finger picking, picking with a pick, and yes probably trying to do too much electric lead style runs. You're right. I invested way too much in this beauty to give it up this easily. If I toughen up my fingers for acoustic with 12's, playing my Les Paul will even be easier than it is now. I'll probably go back to 12's. I still have an extra set of Gibson's that Sweetwater sent me with the guitar. Do you think I'll have to do anything to the bridge? The luthier put 11's on it (down from the original 12's), so he set it up for 11's. I put 10's on myself and had him do a slight truss rod adjustment for the 10's. Hoping putting 12's back on will just need another truss rod tweak. Thanks for straightening me out. I'm the opposite of you: I'm an acoustic player that transitioned to electric guitiar. A bandmate of mine is like you, he's an electric guitar guy that is lost on the acoustic. You just have to put in the time working those fingers on the acoustic with 12s -- you'll get there. Lot easier transition going from acoustic to electric than the other way. Stick with it, like you said, that Gibby will be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Toughen up man, 10's are for sissys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 ^--- a man of few words is he!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 if you are ALWAYS plugged in, the lighter gauge strings may not be as much of a noticable buzz kill for your guitars top, but acoustically, they just don't create enough energy. Unless you are a geezer like me and have stuck with a magnetic soundhole pickup like a Dearmond 210 or Kent WC-18. Then a heavier nickel string works the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
father_of_pearl Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 IMHO, Forget the 10's, you'll never make any Gibson Acoustic sound good with that gauge. As it has been said, Gibsons are optimized for 12's, shipped from the factory with Masterbuilt Bronze 53-12 from 2013 on (used to be coated bronze 12 gauge before). Start with 11's then move to 12's. You've got a wonderful guitar, you won't regret the effort ;) Btw, you can try the DR Sunbeams Phos-Br 54-12 or the Pyramid Phos-Br 52-12, easier on the fingers because of lesser tension and grrreat tone. FOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Toughen up man, 10's are for sissys. Yeah, metrosexual electric guitar players with girlie fingers. Oh wait a minute, sorry that is about Taylors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Yep, Kebob said it first. 12's make that model come to life. Now that the action has been dropped you can just play through the finger strain and strengthen them up. Also, tune it down a half or full to work into it more gently. Capo as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 You know, LP, if you get used to those 12's and the sound you get, you might want to think about taking your Paul up a notch. It's been said that you get better intonation and a meatier sound that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug the Old Geezer Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 A little of everything. Strumming, finger picking, picking with a pick, and yes probably trying to do too much electric lead style runs. You're right. I invested way too much in this beauty to give it up this easily. If I toughen up my fingers for acoustic with 12's, playing my Les Paul will even be easier than it is now. I'll probably go back to 12's. I still have an extra set of Gibson's that Sweetwater sent me with the guitar. Do you think I'll have to do anything to the bridge? The luthier put 11's on it (down from the original 12's), so he set it up for 11's. I put 10's on myself and had him do a slight truss rod adjustment for the 10's. Hoping putting 12's back on will just need another truss rod tweak. Thanks for straightening me out. OK, I am kind of curious, LP. I have never played an electric guitar. Why don't you guys have to have tough fingers, are they that much easier to play than acoustics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Sounds like you got good advice and decided to cowboy up. I'll add two things -- one is make sure your set up is optimized so you're not trying to adjust to 12s and high action at the same time. Two is consider stringing your LP with 11s, with an unwound G, so the distance between the two worlds is not so far, you'll toughen up faster, too. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 OK, I am kind of curious, LP. I have never played an electric guitar. Why don't you guys have to have tough fingers, are they that much easier to play than acoustics? Actually you do have to have tough fingers. Just not as tough as with 12's on an acoustic. The action on electrics can be set lower. I have 10's on my Les Paul. Years ago I used to use 9's. Going to 10's was a little different but it also depends on your set-up and the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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