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1934 Custom L5 Super 400?


Mysterious G

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I will certainly contact one or both of the experts that you mentioned, I am extremely curious now. I never thought that it would spark such a discussion. Can I ask, how would I link to this conversation? And of course I will definitely keep checking in and updating on this conversation. I feel like I know you personally now ! LOL

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I will certainly contact one or both of the experts that you mentioned, I am extremely curious now. I never thought that it would spark such a discussion. Can I ask, how would I link to this conversation? And of course I will definitely keep checking in and updating on this conversation. I feel like I know you personally now ! LOL

I know! :) I was almost thinking I needed to start a separate summary thread, for people who don't want to dig through all of this. I enjoy it, though.

 

To link people to this discussion, just copy and paste the url address into your e-mail: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/114830-1934-custom-l5-super-400/

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Would it be helpful if I removed the truss rod cover and checked for other holes underneath or would that best be done by someone more experienced?

You should be able to do that, provided you have a screwdriver that fits properly (snugly, tightly). Apply plenty of pressure, but don't turn too hard if it doesn't loosen fairly easily.

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I measured the guitar across the back, with a cloth tape instead of a tape measure. It is exactly 18" across. I measured the scale length (looked up on the internet how to do that) and from the fretboard side of the nut to the body side of the bridge stop, measurement to the 12th fret wire is 12 3/8 inches.

 

this means it has the early Super 400 ['35-'36] scale length of 24 3/4" ....very interesting.

that being said it sounds like the Special designation on the label means it's an 18" wide L-5 [ ! ], possibly made before the early 'Super L-5' name was applied.

 

this guitar is quite a historical instrument IMO, possibly the first 18" f-hole guitar Gibson made.

 

Mysterious G, do you see a number in pencil or stamped on the inside of the back viewed inside the treble f hole?

[you'll probably have to remove the pickguard, just 2 screws]

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Joe Spann's Guide revamped the dating for pre-war Gibson instruments. The serial number on this guitar places it in 1935. Look in the F hole for an ink stamped factory order number (FON). I forgot to look in one of mine this morning so I can't remember if it is the treble or bass side. They can be faint and faded, but always worth looking for. Joe uses these numbers to date pre-war instruments. It should be a 4 digit number.

 

The top, as already mentioned, is most probably a refin. That is not uncommon with high end Arch top guitars. They were used on stage and owners/players wanted them to look nice.

 

I don't recall seeing a documented original finish Gibson with this finish combination.

 

Great story about the owner working for Gibson. I own a 16 inch L5 owned by Andy Nelson. He was a musician, and sales/marketing employee of Gibson in the mid to late 50s. Here is a link to a great bio on Andy. A great read for anyone interested in Gibson history. I posted this guitar a couple of years ago.

 

Terry

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For those who are still following this discussion, I contacted both Tom Van Hoose and George Gruhn about the guitar. I have not received an opinion from Mr. Van Hoose. Mr. Gruhn has responded to me with some information and I am waiting to hear from him regarding his final expert opinion. I don't anticipate getting this before next week-end and I will most definitely let you all know how it turns out ! [biggrin] Again, thank you all for your interest and for sharing your knowledge with this uneducated newbie, I think I may become a "Gibson" girl !! [thumbup]

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  • 2 weeks later...

For those who are interested in the update that I promised after I was able to discuss the guitar with Mr. George Gruhn.

 

Mr. Gruhn did alot of research and was able to find records from Gibson relating to the guitar, it's shipment to my grandfather and a couple other dates that the guitar came back to the Gibson factory as well as employee records for my grandfather (who was a string tester). He was very interested in the guitar and being able to examine it in person. I made a trip to Nashville with the guitar and Mr. Gruhn felt that it could be one of the, if not "the", prototype for the Super 400. He feels that it is an amazing piece of history. Mr. Gruhn said that he will definitely be writing about this guitar in the future. I personally can't wait to read what he has to say.

 

This was an amazing adventure for me, it definitely went farther that I could have ever imagined when I posted my first question on this forum. I especially want to thank JimR56 in particular for your continuous interest and for recommending that I contact Mr. Gruhn. He is a guitar genius and it was an honor to be able to meet him and discuss this guitar.

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Thanks for the update, MG! It's really exciting news, and I'm sure that everybody here is very happy for you. If it isn't a lot of trouble for you, it would be great if you could continue to post updates here as you learn more from George. I no longer subscribe to any vintage guitar magazines, so there's a good chance I may miss what George has to say about it otherwise.

 

As for me, believe me, it was my pleasure to do whatever it was I did here (basically think out loud, trial and error style). I love these kinds of guitar mysteries, so I've had fun. Skepticism is fine (and generally healthy), and I encountered it here and in the discussions I started on other forums, but it never hurts to say "what if...?", and dream a little bit. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Let me know if I can help you with this. I was Gibson's historian for 10 years.

 

WOW, Walter's in the house....welcome, and thanks for signing in!

 

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but..... here's a quote from Amazon.com on our new member:

 

"Walter Carter is the former historian for Gibson Guitar Corporation and the author of ten books on guitars, including Gibson Guitars: 100 Years of an American Icon and Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars. Based in Nashville, Tennessee, he has also written a how-to for co-writing songs and a biography of the Oak Ridge Boys."

 

Glad you stopped by. Hope to read your insight on some of our more "debatable" vintage threads.

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Let me know if I can help you with this. I was Gibson's historian for 10 years.

Welcome, Mr. Carter. I mentioned you earlier in the discussion, but referred the owner to Mr. Gruhn since I knew how to get in touch with him.

 

Have you by any chance discussed the instrument yet with George? I don't know if anyone has sent MG a private message via the board (I have not), but I hope she will return, if your intention is to examine the details here in this thread.

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Thanks for the welcome to the forum. I've been lurking occasionally but this seemed like a good time to step forward. I'm pretty easy to find these days. My wife Christie and I opened Carter Vintage Guitars in Nashville in June 2013. Website is cartervintage.com.

 

Re the Super 400, there have been a number of claimed "first" Super 400s through the years, but the information in the ledger book for 1935 wasn't available until a few years ago. I have not been in contact with the owner, and I haven't seen the guitar, but it's my understanding that this guitar is the earliest in the book.

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Let me know if I can help you with this. I was Gibson's historian for 10 years.

Fantastic. Just great.....this is the best....amazing.

I am completely fascinated by all of this and it's getting really good!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was party to this thread on another guit chat board, and as much as I tried to leave a benefit of the doubt, I also wanted the hurdle to be quite high. Good for Mysterious G. I figured George Gruhn or Tom Van Hoose would need a say on a piece like this, with its story, etc., and I chose to leave Walter out for no good reason. Bad me.

 

Having the records showing an 18" body along with the properly dated label needs a summary to understand all the odds and ends. As we all know, in real time back in the day, decisions are made with no knowledge of the way out future. Where has this guitar been for so long? Why has there been no earlier description? Why does the headstock veneer have an epsilon flowerpot?

 

Alas, we all ponder...

 

In any case, I want a good story, and why there is a this then a that with all the different pieces from different times.

 

And during my pilgrimage to Nashville next month, I hope Walter or George have something I want to buy and an update on L5/Super 400 numero uno!

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  • 4 weeks later...

George was very kind today to show me this guitar, and all its heritage and provenance. Had I known I could be in for such a special treat, I would have given myself a manicure!

 

I could have played a little better, too, it was a bit exciting.

 

The article should be forthcoming in, I believe, Vintage Guitar Magazine. I have a copy of the text, and all the old photos were great.

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Yes, I played it. Always takes a little time to settle in, get the tuning relative, noodling things that your ear uses for such a task...but, then you are sitting there with George, in his office, with all his other interests on display.

 

Fun, curious, more intimidating than it needs to be...he is rather low key.

 

I played 4 or 5 interesting guitars, the big thing for me right now is I just had very fine hearing aids fitted, and the "music" setting is wonderful and overwhelming. I am relearning the 10 guits I currently have, but I have an itch, too, for an upgrade.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wow, alot has happened on here in my absence! I would have checked back earlier but I didn't have any updates and I had no idea that there was a new discussion going on. As promised; I received a copy of an article on this guitar, to be published in the January 2015 issue of Vintage Guitar Magazine, from Mr. Gruhn today. I will say again that this has been quite a journey for me, I had no idea where this post would take me when I typed my initial inquiry, I'm still in awe of it all.

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