Gibson Guitar Board: Sorrento versus ES 175 - Gibson Guitar Board

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Sorrento versus ES 175

#1 User is offline   Jeffery Smith 

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:22 PM

Both seem to be short scale (24.75") jazz box types. How to the two of them differ?
Jeffery
In the Irish Channel,
New Orleans, LA

#2 User is offline   rct 

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:05 PM

Sorrento is thinline, has mini hums not '57 Classics, not bound neck.

175 is fat, bound neck, fancier.

I've been searching for a jazz box for about a year now. I've played everything there is. I ran into a 175 Premium last weekend but didn't like the natural finish. Came home and immediately had a black one sent home. I am excited, that thing is the bomb, can't wait to get hold of it.

rct

#3 User is offline   Jeffery Smith 

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:30 PM

View Postrct, on 26 August 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

Sorrento is thinline, has mini hums not '57 Classics, not bound neck.

175 is fat, bound neck, fancier.

I've been searching for a jazz box for about a year now. I've played everything there is. I ran into a 175 Premium last weekend but didn't like the natural finish. Came home and immediately had a black one sent home. I am excited, that thing is the bomb, can't wait to get hold of it.

rct

Thanks much. Let me (us) know what you think of it once it arrives. I really don't need any thinlines (I wish descriptions of guitars listed body depths more often). I really don't like the bile green burst of the Sorrento, or the metal headstock thing. The 175 looks interesting.

I got GAS from the Riviera announcement, but now that it appears to be vaporware, archtop acoustic jazz boxes are on my mind.
Jeffery
In the Irish Channel,
New Orleans, LA

#4 User is offline   crust 

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:53 PM

Posted ImageI like my royal olive Sorrento. I imagine the 175 can produce more and varying tones than this. I believe the Sorrento was offered as a "student model", so it is a very unadorned guitar. The "bikini" style headstock thing is different in a cool way. The green/yellow color is OK by me. This is an "easy" guitar to play, low action, no buzzing (on mine). I can't say if a 175 is better, but congratulation on your acquisition. Put up a pic or 3 when you get it Posted Image

#5 User is offline   Jeffery Smith 

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:36 PM

Comfortable and playable is the name of the game for me. I haven't been in a band since 1967, so I'm playing for me (and two dogs). Is the Sorrento thin as in 335 thin, or as in Gretsch Anniversary thin (more like 3 inches)?
Jeffery
In the Irish Channel,
New Orleans, LA

#6 User is online   Thomse 

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:32 AM

[attachment=16364:rsnhme2okuyxvnbxh8op.jpg]I like both of them .So i bought both of them . And i just picked up a Broadway. They are all kind of different in the same way. The Sorrento is a thin line guitar as for the 175 it is a thicker guitar . I think they are all great for Jazz.[attachment=16363:2014-08-05 01.28.13.jpg]
1980 Gibson LP Heritage 1977 Gibson SG 1985 Gibson 335S 2012 Gibson 335s 2013 Gibson Zoot suit LP Epiphone Casino 50 th 1962 Epiphone Riviera custom p93 Epiphone LP Prophecy custom EX Epiphone Les paul ultra 3 Epiphone wildkat Epiphone Nighthawk Custom Epiphone LE Explorer Pro Epiphone 50 th Sheraton 1987 Fender USA Stratocaster Greatch 6120 Greatch pro jet 5438 Gibson Kalamazoo Epiphone TV blue sg custom Ovation 1985 collectors edition Epiphone Broadway Epiphone Sheraton 2 Epiphone Les Paul with p90s Epiphone Ej200ce Gibson e 200 Charvel DS1 St Epiphone ES175 Epiphone Air Screamer Gibson Flying V government issue Gretsch G5622T 2014 Gibson Furtura Sg Epiphone Ltd Ed Wilshire plant- o- matic 2014 Epiphone dot 335

#7 User is offline   rct 

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:36 AM

Sorrento more like 1 1/2 inches, 175 is a full three inches.

I use a 000 Martin because dreads are big enough that I can't get comfortable sitting with one. I thought the 175 would be too much, but it is not I am happy to say.

The example of 175 and both Sorrentos I've played were outstanding, well put togther, paint was good, no glaring awful "fit and finish" problems.

For me, looking for a jazz box but refusing to give our hosts any more money than I have in my entire life, I didn't expect to be able to get hold of a 175, and then when I did I didn't think I would dig it at all, even as I took it down to try it I was wanting to dislike it. So it was kind of reverse for me, I wanted to like the Sorrento and did. I wanted to dislike the 175, but loved it instead.

rct

#8 User is offline   Parabar 

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:08 PM

Jeffery Smith wrote:
Thanks much. Let me (us) know what you think of it once it arrives. I really don't need any thinlines (I wish descriptions of guitars listed body depths more often). I really don't like the bile green burst of the Sorrento, or the metal headstock thing. The 175 looks interesting.

I got GAS from the Riviera announcement, but now that it appears to be vaporware, archtop acoustic jazz boxes are on my mind.

Jeffery, you may want to look for one of the Korean Sorrento reissues from the '90's (made by Peerless). They have chrome dogear P-90's instead of mini-hums, have no metal bikini on the headstock, do have neck binding, and were offered in several colors (no bile green option!) --- red, orange, turquoise, black, sunburst, and a few metalflake colors. Trapeze tailpieces were standard, mine came with a Bigsby installed by the previous owner.

They also have the correct body and cutaway shape, unlike either the Epi ES-175 or the current Sorrento. I like mine a lot!
Posted Image

#9 User is offline   crust 

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:19 PM

View PostParabar, on 27 August 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

Jeffery Smith wrote:
Thanks much. Let me (us) know what you think of it once it arrives. I really don't need any thinlines (I wish descriptions of guitars listed body depths more often). I really don't like the bile green burst of the Sorrento, or the metal headstock thing. The 175 looks interesting.

I got GAS from the Riviera announcement, but now that it appears to be vaporware, archtop acoustic jazz boxes are on my mind.

Jeffery, you may want to look for one of the Korean Sorrento reissues from the '90's (made by Peerless). They have chrome dogear P-90's instead of mini-hums, have no metal bikini on the headstock, do have neck binding, and were offered in several colors (no bile green option!) --- red, orange, turquoise, black, sunburst, and a few metalflake colors. Trapeze tailpieces were standard, mine came with a Bigsby installed by the previous owner.

They also have the correct body and cutaway shape, unlike either the Epi ES-175 or the current Sorrento. I like mine a lot!
Posted Image


Posted Image

#10 User is offline   Jeffery Smith 

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:27 PM

Thanks much! Are they advertised under the Peerless name?
Jeffery
In the Irish Channel,
New Orleans, LA

#11 User is offline   ErickC 

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 07:38 AM

The Sorrento is an ES-125TDC with mini humbuckers. To that purpose, the current Sorrento's body shape is absolutely correct. The 90s Korean guitars neither reflect an ES-125 or the original Sorrento. Note the extra frets, addition of neck binding, relocation of the switch, and extra inlays.

The comparison between a Sorrento an an Epiphone ES-175 is roughly the same as between a 175 and 125 in Gibson land. The 125 is a student model with very basic features, no neck binding, dot inlays, three-on-a-plate Kluson tuners, et cetera, whereas the 175 has full size humbuckers and more fluff.

I don't know why Epiphone calls their 175 a 175 and their 125 a Sorrento. It doesn't make much sense when you think about it*. That said, the Sorrento has some benefits by weight of comparison to the 125. ES-125s only came with P90s. In Epiphone's case, one has a choice of P90s or mini humbuckers depending on the year of manufacture. Early (pre-1964, I think) ES-125s had a crappy non-adjustable rosewood bridge, whereas Sorrentos, as far as I know, all have the ABR-1 type (best replaced with a Nashville in either case, anyway). The Sorrento also has individual tuners, and the great advantage of being produced post-1970. The truss rod cover on a 125 is also really, really thin. Like, it's the standard Gibson shape, but it's single-ply and very flexible. Mine's a tad bent.

*Then again, they sell their 335 under 600 different names, really, so maybe it does.

#12 User is offline   milod 

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 02:10 PM

Just a cupla points...

The thinbody guitars IMHO have a very, very different feel than they'd have were they the "full thickness" of an archtop - even the roughly 3" of the 175.

That brings back to me the contention that a player's geometry vis a vis a given guitar shape will play a major role in his or her feeling of "playability."

RCT's point about being more comfortable with a small body flattop, and "falling for" the 175 is likely a perfect example of what I'm talking about. In fact, I share that sorta feeling. Anyone else with that sorta outlook also might find the Epi PR5e a helluva good little flattop depending on how you play it, regardless that I don't care much for the longer scale on it.

I have a cupla thin bodies that are nice but don't get much play. But then I have four 16-inch "full hollow" archtops; the one with the 25 1/2 inch scale is nice to play, but it's just not as overall comfortable as the the two 175 "types." The fourth has a 24-inch scale that I'd love if it weren't on a 1950s baseball bat neck; even so, with that similar body dimension, it's easier for me to play than a 17-inch body or a thinbody.

Seriously, I think the 175 "size and scale" is just about perfect for me, for what I play, for how I play, and how my physical dimensions intersect with the instrument given how I hold it. If I hadn't just picked up my year's dollar quota of guitars that, at my age, I'll never ever wear out, I'd be serious about that new Epi 175. I'd have no interest in the Sorento unless it had a 23-inch scale.

A thinbody seems always to me to have a longer neck and a narrower nut - even though you can measure both and they're identical to the specs of a 175. That tells me that we're talking a synergy of a player and instrument that can be analyzed in terms of a given person's "comfort level," but has less to do with price tag than with geometry.

As for acoustics - yeah, I've got some "big boomers" that are nice on stage for banging on while backing up old-time fiddlers, but for sitting to play something with a bit of technique, I prefer the smaller box.

EDIT: I have archtops with both TM and wood bridges. No big deal either way IMHO, although some will claim this or that tone advantage.

m

#13 User is offline   rct 

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 02:22 PM

I agree with all of that Milo. I've never been willing to give our hosts what they want for the various reissues of 175s, but I always go back to the two or three I got to dink with when I was a kid growing up guitar. The thinlines I've ever tried have always been nice, but lack the thump and presence of the 175 or L5(god forbid) or Super 400(god forbid even more).

I guess the diehard jazzers made do with the thinlines or went for the gusto with the 175 and bigger bodied. Being not one of them I've always just assumed that one day I'd run into something that fit the full hollow body with tailpiece because there's no wood inside guitar spot and settle for a thinline in all likelihood.

I did NOT expect to like the Epiphone ES-175 Premium, and I was pleasantly surprised that I loved it.

Oh, ok, I'm hot as ballz for it and it should be here this weekend.

rct

#14 User is offline   milod 

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 03:05 PM

RCT...

Seriously, if you're happy also with that 000 Martin, I have a hunch you may be a lot more comfortable with the 175 than L5 or Super 400 or whatever with the bigger bodies.

That doesn't mean you wouldn't happily own/play other guitars.

But I'm still convinced that some guitars just plain "fit" one's physical geometry better.

All...

As for "jazz boxes," yeah IMHO it's a disservice to a lot of guitars to suggest that any decently playable instrument can't be a jazzer 'cuz it ain't an archtop. To me it's a matter of a picker playing what's most comfortable and gets him going and also works with however he's playing it. (Solo, big band, combo, etc.)

For years my backup "jazz guitar" was my Guild S100c SG clone from the early 1970s. And I'm not sure that it didn't do the job for me far better than a lotta archtops woulda done. Also, for years I bought into the "gotta wear heavy strings, preferably flats." Oddly I truly fell in love with my archtops when I put on 9-42s that better fit how I play.

Again, I think that my "choices" are mine because of me, not the virtues of this or that guitar. It's how they fit me and what I do on guitar.

m

#15 User is offline   Jeffery Smith 

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 04:51 PM

Some of my belated attraction to the full hollowbody jazz box type guitar is their simplicity. I've listened a few jazz guitarists playing in local eateries, and the full hollow with one neck pickup sound was very comforting.

The shortest scale spruce top archtop (within my reach) appears to be a Guild M-75 Aristocrat (24.5"). But its looks are deceiving; It has no f-holes, and may be sized more like a hollowbody Les Paul than a jazz box.

The Sorrento is out for me. But it's fun looking around at hollow bodied jazz boxes.
Jeffery
In the Irish Channel,
New Orleans, LA

#16 User is offline   milod 

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:49 AM

jeff...

Here's another one. I got mine before the price tag took a jump above what the new Epi goes for.

The Eastman is nice.

Then again, so is the Epi Joe Pass.

If I hadda lose what I have now and get one new at the "under 1000 with case" ... It'd probably be the new Epi if I could play it first. The Joe Pass or Eastman would be likely second place but likely.

Note that I'm into the 16"-body archtops though, and those with the shorter scale. Some folks like the bigger bodies or longer scale.

m
http://elderly.com/n...ca--AR371CE.htm

#17 User is offline   Willsjazz 

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:48 PM

Just got the Epi ES 175 Premium in sunburst. Wonderful guitar!

#18 User is offline   milod 

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:55 PM

Will...

All I can say is Congrats!!!

Enjoy - and let us know how you're wringing it out.

What strings are on it, btw, and what do you plan?

m

#19 User is offline   Jeffery Smith 

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 01:10 PM

Milod,

The Eastman looks very good indeed. I had trouble finding many Eastman sellers since Jeff Hale closed up shop. There is a place in Washington called Djangobooks that has them, but you have to pay extra for a setup, and it takes 2-4 weeks for them to do it. That would drive me nuts. I like Elderly!
Jeffery
In the Irish Channel,
New Orleans, LA

#20 User is offline   milod 

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 03:14 PM

yeah... in a sense I really lucked out. There's a guitar store about an hour and a quarter, hour and half from where I live (on the edge of the high plains ranch country) and I called and told 'em I'd take either a Joe Pass or the Eastman that they said both were incoming. The Eastman got here first.

They called me and let me know it had come in. I asked 'em to put on the 9-42, so it was ready by the time I got off work and did the drive.

I use very light strings and had no problem with setup when I put on my 9-42s. It has been clean all up the neck for how I play - which is pretty much as though it were a classical guitar with a shorter scale, which is easier on my small-medium hands and shorter arms. (A 32-inch quality dress shirt cuff length is too long for me as an example.) That's why my Gretsch full hollow with the 25 1/2 inch scale is just a tad bit of a reach, not so much for my fingers, but for my arms.

It sounds quite nice and it's almost identical in size/feel to a 175. I don't quite care for the color but... what the heck, the single pup version isn't going to be seen anyway under lights as being a cherry ES-335 playing Johnny B Goode. <grin>

Dunno how much additional setup would be needed for heavier strings.

OTOH, I think that were I in the market for that type of guitar, I'd first consider the new Epi 175. The Eastman two-pup likely would be running in a second place tie with the Joe Pass and the Pass probably a nose ahead thanks to the increase in price on the Eastmans. The Eastman does come with a case. The case, btw, is awfully similar to what I got with a Takamine/Jasmine and seems as if it came from the same factory.

m

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