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Bridge Pins


Noel_G

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Hi all,

 

Been doing some reading regarding bridge pins and was wondering what everyone's opinions are regarding different materials, types etc.

 

I'm just about to change the strings on my EJ-200 and am putting on Elixir Nanoweb 80/20 11 gauge.

 

I still have on the stock bridge pins that came with the guitar (white plastic with small black dots) but does anyone know if changing them leads to better tone or sound?

 

Thanks guys,

 

Scott

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The ball end of the strings should be resting cleanly on the bridgeplate. The pin is there to help prevent it from popping out, but ideally the strings should be locked securely onto the plate in such a manner that the pin is almost meaningless in the driving of the top.

 

Others will disagree, but I am of the opinion that bridge pin material is virtually a non-factor, unless you go to something like brass which will add a more significant degree of weight (generally not desired).

 

All of this said, it's a cheap experiment and totally reversible, so there's no harm in tinkering with it.

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There's a similar thread current in the Gibson Acoustic bit of the forums.

 

Some are saying it is a big deal. I argue against that, assuming all else equal.

 

Nut and bridge changes will make a difference - whether it's what the picker is happy with or not - and whether or not nut and bridge are appropriately cut and installed is a big deal for a number of reasons.

 

I could see some difference in the pins if they were or had not been a good fit.

 

But I look at how folks change bridge pins: They loosen the strings and inevitably change strings at the same time. There's no argument that a new set of strings, and potentially even totally loosening strings and then retightening them will bring a change in tone.

 

OTOH, there's a huge change in tone found by moving where one plucks a string closer or farther from the bridge.

 

So... If I were to spend $30-$100 on new bridge pins, I'd either need to know I bought them for their appearance or I'd have to feel they changed the tone as I had hoped. So...

 

Meanwhile I've not seen repeatable scientific documentation of tone being changed simply by changing bridge pins - and likely one reason is that doing what's necessary to do so will itself be a major variable.

 

m

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Hi all,

 

Been doing some reading regarding bridge pins and was wondering what everyone's opinions are regarding different materials, types etc.

 

I'm just about to change the strings on my EJ-200 and am putting on Elixir Nanoweb 80/20 11 gauge.

 

I still have on the stock bridge pins that came with the guitar (white plastic with small black dots) but does anyone know if changing them leads to better tone or sound?

 

Thanks guys,

 

Scott

 

With out a Doubt this is the best comparison I've seen or heard,

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I've been in both camps on this. Right now I'm in the "they make a difference" camp. The way I look at it, the strings contact the bridge, bridge plate & pins. The pins contact the strings, bridge and to some extent the bridge plate. I think we can all agree, that relatively soft plastic will absorb or deaden, verses transmit vibration. In this train of thought, everything at the transmission point of string to top will have some degree of influence. In any case, I haven't tried anything in the bone or fossilized category, but I have tried hard/dense wood, ebony and snakewood to be specific, but the most pleasant difference I've found so far, has been with graph tech or tusq pins. Just drop them on a hard surface. The one that rings will sound best IMO. ymmv.

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If you search eBay for bridge pins you should find bone & man-made materials beside Tusq,which are expensive.I've bought them along with saddles.Saddles make a difference,nuts also,pins I'm undecided. Martin use plastic.

I think set-up is more crucial - nut & saddle height plus what strings you use.11's on a J200?

12-54 Minimum.

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I really doubt if the pins make any difference in the sound at all. The only reason I ever replaced pins was on my seagull grand . The plastic pins it came with sounded fine however the string balls were bending the pins and making marks in the pins. I only changed them because I felt sooner or later I might have a bridge plate issue. I got this set that came with a new saddle that I needed anyway from Graph Tech.

 

I guess I would have to say at least with seagull guitars they get their pins from different sources and soon seem to be not so good . Didn't have this issue with an AMI parlor I had made by the same company .

 

When they tell you like most companies do that they can change the specs at any time that could mean pins or newer crappy tuners or even a new cheap saddle material.

 

I would never go with some high end bone pins or brass ones . If I see something changing like the pins I had better safe than sorry.

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Pins make a big difference I find..on every guitar I have owned, I have used plastic pins, ebony pins and tusq pins...and switched them out over time on each guitar. Guitars will vary in how they respond but in general, I have found the plastic pins preferable on my Masterbilts because they play so loud....and ebony makes them louder and deeper than I want them to be....while tusq pins wash out the base and add an open airy tone. I favor tusq pins the least on any laminate guitar as it makes them sound harsh and brash and brittle.....I prefer ebony pins on my Gibson Hummingbird which is not an overly loud guitar, and the ebony thickens and deepens the sound slightly. Others will always disagree about pins and tone..but to me they DO make a subtle difference on most guitars...and sometimes that little subtle difference is all that it takes to MAKE OR BREAK a guitars delicate tonal structure. Hope this helps.

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I am sure bridge pins can make a difference, but for the average player, I really doubt if they could tell the difference when the pins are changed out.

Its a try and see if at best.

I have yet seen or even heard a great player< and I must say, I know some amazing pickers> even tell me if they can tell the difference in sounds with different style necks, or woods for the body of an acoustic guitatr, but yet the debate goes on.

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I am sure bridge pins can make a difference, but for the average player, I really doubt if they could tell the difference when the pins are changed out.

Its a try and see if at best.

I have yet seen or even heard a great player< and I must say, I know some amazing pickers> even tell me if they can tell the difference in sounds with different style necks, or woods for the body of an acoustic guitatr, but yet the debate goes on.

 

Check out the link I posted you can here the difference in sustain, brightness, and volume

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Late last night at work I was listening to a classical guitar vid "seminar" where it was noted that even the angle of nails and fingers at the same point on the strings will make a major difference in tone. And it was proven in terms of what anyone might hear.

 

On the other hand, subtlety of tone is at best subliminal to the average listener. They're hearing a performance, not a contest of tone held by guitar nuts. And I freely admit to being one of those "guitar nuts."

 

But I recall an impromptu "hey, can you use this crap guitar to show these international travel agents what some cowboy music is like?" That wasn't quite how it was phrased, but it was at a guest ranch luncheon for a batch of European travel agents on a "fam(iliarity) tour." I guarantee that I could have used a soprano uke and the wide-eyed, "oh, my goodness" looks would have been the same. It was a guy in a hat and boots singing about cowboys.

 

Yeah, that's an extreme example. I was just there with a camera to tell the story about local ranchers' efforts to expand their "business" with tourism.

 

Yet it was part of why I'm increasingly convinced that it's the performance as a whole that is perceived by an audience, and that "we" too often are so concerned with equipment that we forget what we ourselves hear when we are the audience 'stedda the performers.

 

m

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Some varying opinions here which is good to see.

 

I'm going to try a set of bone pins, they're relatively inexpensive so if they don't work I can always switch them back. Need to work out what size they are first.

 

I'll let you know how I get on!!

 

Cheers [thumbup]

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With out a Doubt this is the best comparison I've seen or heard,

 

Thanks for the video Cliffmac... very interesting and well done I might add. Well worth watching. I preferred the horn pins the least, and the Ebony and Rosewood next. Many people will argue that pins make no difference. Some guitars react more than others to new pins. Now this is just my own theory but... But a guitar sting is made of metal, it seems only common sense that the metal string will carry some sound and vibration past the saddle into the hole and up against the pin. It is similar to trying to stop 1/2 of a brass metal bell from vibrating and ringing ....while the other half of the bell is still ringing.

 

You could pad half of the metal bell to subdue the sound and vibration, but that would not stop the sound and vibration from moving through the entire metal object. ...and so it seems likely that vibrations in a string would not do a 90 degree turn down into the saddle and disappear...and utterly vanish after crossing the saddle into the pin hole, as the string is metal, pulled tight by tension........where it is locked tightly against a Plastic, or Ebony, or Horn, or brass pin...which then transfers the remaining string energy directly into the top.

 

Plastic is generally known to be an insulator, it restricts sound and vibration. Wood generally carries vibrations and transfers sound. I have found tusq pins to make some of the largest changes, but it was brash and harsh sounding to my ear.....My favorite pin for looks, beauty, durability, and natural tone is the ever classic jet Black Ebony wood pins, with mother of pearl inlaid on their tips. Those are on all my guitars except the Masterbilts because Ebony pins can increase bass and trebles...and the Masterbilts are a drench in tone and need no help...therefore I keep the tone insulating plastic pins in them to tame and harness the beasts!

 

Ebony pins made a noticeable difference for the better on my Gibson Hummingbird as well, opening it up and making it sound richer than the cheap molded plastic white pins it came from Gibson with.

 

In the end, even if no increase in tone is found, in my view...almost anything looks better than the cheap molded plastic pins guitars are shipped with. Plastic pins also fail after time, bending inside and lodging the ball against the top in a wood damaging way. Ebony wood pins seldom, if ever fail. They too however can be hard to match up with the holes in a guitar...some guitar pin holes are bored out bigger than others..while some brands of other pins Ebony/Bone/Tusq etc) can be made too thick to fit. Thanks again...GL

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Some varying opinions here which is good to see.

 

I'm going to try a set of bone pins, they're relatively inexpensive so if they don't work I can always switch them back. Need to work out what size they are first.

 

I'll let you know how I get on!!

 

Cheers [thumbup]

 

 

 

Like these ? a long with wider new bone saddle for intonation set and a new nut for correct string spacing . I can say yes it makes a difference. My girl sings [biggrin] lol

 

 

Editing my butt off LMAO but I got had to resize hehehehe ...... :)

post-56675-009272300 1411770459_thumb.jpg

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