Late 1960's PAF's did it happen ??

[251blckgrds]

I've heard stories about PAF's showing up in the late 1960's. Did it happen ? The reason I'm wondering is that the 67 V I just found has one in the bridge. I've handled a few guitars and I do know when things don't look right and this PAF looks like it came with this V when it hatched. Could it be ? The most well known vintage dealer in the country told me yesterday NO WAY ! Is he right ? Please opine...

[capmaster]

To my informations, the latest original PAFs were made in 1967, so it should be possible. I would rate 1967 rather mid- than late-60s though.

[tvguit]

Very nice find!

If you could post pictures of the back of the pickups and the control cavity we could make a guess at whether or not it's been messed with.

[stein]

That's a dang good question.

 

We learn stuff all the time. But conventional knowledge these days says no.

 

The PAF's that end up in the late 60's, and more to the point, the ones that date AFTER the decal'd seriel# ones are in guitars that have the rarer versions, such as the gold plated or different spacing (like, for example a byrdland). When the pups stay in the parts bin because they aren't making many guitars that need that particular pup.

 

The flying V doesn't fall into that catagory. So what could be the explanation?

[251blckgrds]

That's a dang good question.

 

We learn stuff all the time. But conventional knowledge these days says no.

 

The PAF's that end up in the late 60's, and more to the point, the ones that date AFTER the decal'd seriel# ones are in guitars that have the rarer versions, such as the gold plated or different spacing (like, for example a byrdland). When the pups stay in the parts bin because they aren't making many guitars that need that particular pup.

 

The flying V doesn't fall into that catagory. So what could be the explanation?

The wiring has been messed with but the pick up leads look like they have been left alone. 1376630 pot code.

[capmaster]

What does the neck pickup look like?

[251blckgrds]

What does the neck pickup look like?

Looks like the PAF but it's a patent number pickup. The photo wouldn't load. The braid is soldered to the corner.

[JimR56]

The most well known vintage dealer in the country told me yesterday NO WAY ! Is he right ?

I tend to believe what George says.

[stein]

The wiring has been messed with but the pick up leads look like they have been left alone. 1376630 pot code.

It doesn't really say the pups are origonal, or not, but what it DOES say is that it is more likey they were added.

 

First, you know for a fact the electronics were altered, someone been in there and did something.

 

As for the pups appearing unaltered, I don't think it shows that. There might not be any extra solder marks on them, but also you have to consider if these were in another guitar, the leads were likely cut- after all, this guitar requires about as short of leads as you are likely to find.

 

It's possible, however unlikely, these pups were sold as individuals as parts and were in a shops inventory for some time. But that is still more likely than being in Gibson's inventory, isn't it?

 

If just going by the evidence of the guitar itself, there is no way to tell where they came from or how they came to be in there. All we know is the guitar was altered and they aren't the pups the guitar is supposed to have as origonal.

 

This is why, IF you have a guitar that has, "historical value", you should never, ever, alter it unless you know what you are getting into. Even a guitar that has all the pot codes, wiring, and pickups it SHOULD have, there is never any real proof. One could only guess how many "origonal" vintage guitars have been restored using the parts they are supposed to have.

[wintermoon]

I believe Gibson stopped adding the PAF decals in '61 and then used their remaining stock until they ran out, so it's not uncommon to see them on guitars into '62 or even '63. they were in a large bin and workers randomly used whatever they pulled out.

 

but PAF's sometime turn up in high end guitars [re: ones w/gold plated parts] later than guitars that used nickel plated parts as they just didn't make/sell as many high end guitars

 

I have then in a couple mid 60's Gibsons I own, but have seen them as late as '66 [usually only one pickup has the sticker that late]

 

I've never seen one factory installed in a guitar w/nickel parts later than '63 though.