J-45 Standard or AJ for finger style?

[SycamoreDan]

I recently acquired a J45 Standard, several years old. It is a stunningly beautiful instrument and one monstrous strummer. A bold but not bright tone. For finger style, though, I find myself having to fight the guitar to pull out the notes. They are just sort of subdued. I'm wondering if the Advanced Jumbo may be more immediately responsive for the travis picking I do. Thanks to all the Gibson vets for responding.

[EuroAussie]

No questions the AJ is more responsive and projective for fingerpicking, its main reason why I bought it.

 

Having said that I just love the warmth of the J-45 (SJ in my case)but if its projection and volume youre after the AJ is it.

[SycamoreDan]

Yes. I play 80% finger style, so responsiveness is the issue. My musical partner plays with a pick and likes to play that Neil Young percussive, thumping style. It's perfect for him, but not for me.

[MissouriPicker]

It all depends on how you like the sound you get and the playability for you. I totally agree with the volume response you get from an AJ, but the warmth and intimate sound you can get from a J45 is tough to beat. Both are superb. Kind of all boils down to what you like and what you feels fits your music and your style. Some guitars are made to be louder than others (size/bracing/wood). Some are designed and voiced to be more subtle. The ideal situation is to have at least one of each of these beasts.

[62burst]

Just keep in mind most all AJ's have the longer scale length, so you will work a little more to get those notes. There are some short scale Advanced Jumbos out there, but much of the vibe of the AJ is derived from the rosewood combined with sloped shoulders and scale length (which may help propagate clearer bass notes). And there will always be exceptions within each model guitar.

[milod]

Some also may have to do with how you play - and playability issues.

 

Frankly I don't really figure to do fingerpicking - and I'm 99 percent a fingerpicker nowadays - on a big-body guitar, whether flattop or archtop. I just don't find it that comfortable.

 

Then too, since all of my flattops are AE... it's no problem plugging in. For all of that, with an acoustic-only, the miking can cover any volume problems.

 

I went through all of these questions some 40 years ago and answered it with two of the first real AE instruments, an Ovation Electric Legend and an Ovation Country Artist (nylon).

 

After 2005 and overall improvement in AE capabilities, I bought and tried to feel comfortable with big-body flattop AEs. Nope for fingerpicking. Strumming and stuff like a Carter Family scratch, yes; not fingerpicking.

 

A bit of AE or even acoustic mike tone adjustment using a small to medium-size flattop body can get nice results that keeps an audience happy, anyway. I know "we" have the tone holy grail, but...

 

Then too, if fingerpicking on a pure acoustic, you've the same sort of technical issues of a classical guitarist in terms of combining "loudness," dynamics and tone. That's what put me solidly into the AE camp for just about anything with an audience much more than a parlor or small campfire gathering.

 

Again, I'll freely admit it isn't a perfect response, but any amplification whether mike through a PA or AE through a PA will have a degree of compromise involved.

 

m

[Rambler]

Have had both. The tight strng/roewood sound din't get it for me. Big note but not a lot of color to it and more overtones than was welcome. BUT. Im doing blues and ragtimey kind of stuff ala Jorma and Bromberg where you want the clarity. If you are doing folkie and rock arpeggios, the extra ring might be a feature. Likewise new agey styles. And if you are damping ala Chet Atkins, it doesnt matter.

[DRC]

Dan, you may want to check out the J-35 and J-15 for good mids and playing fingerstyle. I play Irish/Celtic 75% fingerstyle with a lot of capoing and my J-35 is great for both fingerstyle and strumming...better than any of my other guitars. Excellent balance, good volume with nice bass response and mids for bringing out melody lines or fill when playing with other instruments. The J-35 is very articulate with nice clarity. I had an AJ for a while and while I liked it played open, I just wasn't happy with the tone when capoed on the higher frets.

 

Here's my J-35 played fingerstyle. This is with D'Addario EJ-16s but I've since started using Martin Retro strings and it sounds even better.

https://soundcloud.com/ballyshannon/35-hector-the-hero-1

 

BTW, SoundCloud has been having some issues, so keep trying if it doesn't load.

 

DC

[Rambler]

Dan, you may want to check out the J-35 and J-15 for good mids and playing fingerstyle. I play Irish/Celtic 75% fingerstyle with a lot of capoing and my J-35 is great for both fingerstyle and strumming.. Here's my J-35 played fingerstyle. This is with D'Addario EJ-16s but I've since started using Martin Retro strings and it sounds even better. https://soundcloud.com/ballyshannon/35-hector-the-hero-1C

Lovely track, and a good example of a well set-up slope for FS. Indeed once of the best from the new 35s that Ive heard. Nice ring on the high end--cant get that kind of complexity from an AJ imho. Btw the link didnt work at first, so just go to DCs main soundcloud page and have a listen.

[SycamoreDan]

Thanks for all the replies. DC, that J-35 sounded quite lively. My J45 is definitely darker. If I understand it, the bracing is a bit different on the J35 than the J45. I'll have to compare my J45 to a J35 in a local store.

[j45nick]

Here's my J-35 played fingerstyle. This is with D'Addario EJ-16s but I've since started using Martin Retro strings and it sounds even better.

https://soundcloud.com/ballyshannon/35-hector-the-hero-1

 

BTW, SoundCloud has been having some issues, so keep trying if it doesn't load.

 

DC

 

 

I like that a lot. What tuning are you using?

[E-minor7]

I recently acquired a J45 Standard, several years old. It is a stunningly beautiful instrument and one monstrous strummer. A bold but not bright tone. For finger style, though, I find myself having to fight the guitar to pull out the notes. They are just sort of subdued. I'm wondering if the Advanced Jumbo may be more immediately responsive for the travis picking I do. Thanks to all the Gibson vets for responding.

Too strange - my J-45 black nut Std. from 2010 is just the opposite.

 

A great poet when fingerpicked (the reason I never could call it a work-horse), but compressed, thus not really free when strummed or flatpicked.

 

It's slowly becoming looser though (don't play it that often) - and will stay here at least a couple of years. Still not in the 'keeper-category'.

[RichG]

No questions the AJ is more responsive and projective for fingerpicking, its main reason why I bought it.

 

Having said that I just love the warmth of the J-45 (SJ in my case)but if its projection and volume youre after the AJ is it.

 

Agreed. I also agree with the post about the longer scale length on the AJ. For the small percentage of the time I play out with a group I use the AJ for both strumming and finger picking. When I'm playing for myself on the couch it's the SJ.

 

I think the AJ is a tremendous bang for the buck and a great all around guitar.

[DenverSteve]

You can play any guitar finger style, strummed or picked. Period. If the guitar "does it for you", then it will do it for you any way you play it. Pick away.

[DRC]

I like that a lot. What tuning are you using?

Thanks Nick. It's DADGAD.

 

Rambler and Dan....

Thanks for the kind words. That's a wonderful tune my Irish band plays. I was very lucky to find a particularly exceptional J-35, and it took playing three to find it. All J-35s are not equal. :) It's one of those special guitars you run across on occasion and I knew it as soon as I strummed it the first time. Love it.

 

DC

[tpbiii]

I don't think this question has a universal answer -- just individual ones. Also, all my guitars are old -- so that may and may not be related with new guitars. So with a clear statement that this is probably worthless, nonetheless I have strong opinions.

 

I have three styles -- flatpicking, finger style with finger picks, and finger style without picks. We never plug in -- that may be a big deal here.

 

The AJ (36) is one of the best flatpickers I have ever touched. It still works better than its old D-28 competition with finger picks, but both are really too full for fingerpicks. Both are too stiff for bare fingers.

 

The J-45 on the other hand to my ear is a fine match to finger picks, but a bit too stiff for bare fingers.

 

Bare fingers would be best on our 31 L-2 or one of its early 30s 00 or 000 competitors.

 

I don't know if this illustrates anything, but I'll include some videos I have around.

 

A J

 

J-45

L-2/00-18 FIXED!

 

Let's pick,

 

-Tom

[milod]

I've played flatpick, fingerpicks in a number of styles (Carter Family scratch on heavier strings or 12-strings done as though on an autoharp, regular fingerpicking kinda stuff) and bare finger as with classical/flamenco guitar.

 

At this point I've concluded that more or less basic flatpicking is fine on most guitar shapes albeit a bit easier with big boxes to play 'em standing. OTOH, whether an archtop, flattop or even a semi or solidbody, I like relatively smaller guitar bodies. I guess I tend to blame that on starting on a classical guitar.

 

I'm not so comfortable fingerpicking bigger body guitars or the 25 1/2 scale as medium/small body guitars.

 

I very seldom use the fingerpicks or a thumb pick any more except on banjo.

 

My point, I guess, is that each instrument size/shape/scale/string width at the nut and bridge will affect the player's geometry with the guitar. For example I figure the nut's narrower on a 335 size/scale guitar regardless that it's inevitably 24 1/2 scale. It's how my body interacts with the guitar's body shape.

 

I'm always plugged in at a gig so that's less of an issue. Still - I think we might argue "tone" until the cows lost in last October's Northern Plains blizzard come home - but I'm convinced that I play far better on a comfy guitar regardless of price tag than one less comfortable that could have a $10,000 price tag.

 

m

[zombywoof]

There is no formula to tell you this is a better fingerpicker than that. Tom does not prefer going at a J-45 with fingers and no picks but I thrive on it. You hook the low E with the edge of your thumb, pull it out and let it slap back and you get that percussive snap. Now that is what I am talking about. Not sure though how that guitar would sound with some delicate James Taylor style picking though. Tom might be right on the money there. But as I don't play like that it is not an issue.

 

If I have a problem with Gibsons, at least the older ones I play, it is that they are not overly generous with string spacing. Looks to be 2 3/16" is pretty common. I can obviously cope with it but do prefer the wider string spacing on my pre-War el cheapos. Now only if they sounded like that Gibson.

[Phelonious Ponk]

Conventional wisdom would tell you that the AJ is a flat picker, direct competition to the D-28, and should, theoretically, be harder to "pull the notes" out of than your J-45. Jorma, however, played a lot of finger style on an AJ on Blue Country Heart and pulled the notes out just fine. Conventional wisdom would also tell you that because a 45 Standard is very balanced for a "big guitar," it would be a better finger style instrument.

 

But conventional wisdom goes out the window in the face of individual technique.

 

I enjoy playing finger style (actually hybrid in my case) on Gibson sloped jumbos; most people prefer smaller guitars for finger picking. Your finger style guitar may not be a "J." Heck, it may not even be a Gibson. Play a bunch of them and see where it leads you. One man's opinion, but if you're having trouble "pulling the notes" out of a J-45, I doubt the answer is going to be an AJ.

 

P

[zombywoof]

however, played a lot of finger style on an AJ on Blue Country Heart and pulled the notes out just fine.

 

I assume you mean a J-50.

 

An AJ beats out a J-45/50 though. Hmmm.

 

[mountainpicker]

Ah yeh, and then there is Lightnin'. I am sitting right next to my copy of Blue Country Heart and whipped out the liner notes. Jorma "exclusively" played a 1936 AJ, loaned to him by Ren, on the album. You guys are making me jones (again) for an AJ.

[Phelonious Ponk]

I assume you mean a J-50.

 

 

Nope.

 

 

And I believe I read an interview with him at the time where he talked about using an AJ extensively on that album.

 

P

[zombywoof]

Guess I was thinking of this.

 

[zombywoof]

Point is, if you have what Rev. Davis once called a sporting right hand it does not matter much what you are playing.

[Rambler]

I assume you mean a J-50.

Uh, no, actually. He

for some of the songs on that session. (beat to the punch). 'Course now, he's not using any Gibson flattops. Just M-series Martins. And a Les Paul when he plugs in. Anyway, here's a link to

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