Why we fired Fender

[quapman]

My local mom/pop guy here had to change the way he did business a couple decades ago.

 

He wasn't licensed to sell Gibson and he couldn't compete selling Fenders or Martins or the like.

The big Canadian franchise(which is also here) all but forces him to sell other product by buying massive volume and distributing it across Canada.

So yes the little guy here was forced to adjust his product line.

The big franchise here is doing just fine and not struggling at all. And our little guy is also still chugging along selling/renting gear

and employing people. No he doesn't sell Fender or Gibson or ever Martin, but guess what, people do actually buy other guitars.

 

Buying online doesn't appeal to me in the least.. Strings? sure. An amp? Ya why not.

I have never bought any guitar without touching it.. not saying I wouldn't ,, but I never have.

I'm not real comfortable doing that.

 

Anyway,,I'm not convinced buying direct is going to cause that much grief is it?

Is Fender actually saying they are going to sell direct ONLY? I don't see anything suggesting that, other than speculation.

 

So what if they cut into other online middleman re-sellers. Who cares?

 

The big box store phenom damage was done years ago. Some were able to adjust and some weren't.

 

I just can't imaging having no choice at all but online direct. I just don't see it.

[BobF_]

I've purchased two guitars online from sweetwater. I'm perfectly happy with both of them.

 

Well, the pickups in the Studio sucketh, but that wouldn't have changed any in a showroom. I would've still bought and done a pickup swap.

[R0Z]

 

 

After 25 years as a Fender dealer, we had been struggling with constantly evolving requirements we had to meet, as well as the way in which they were prescribed. As a result, we were no longer able to decide for ourselves which products worked in our stores, which items met the level of quality we wanted and which products were sufficiently profitable to be worth our while. Those terms were being dictated to us in ever-increasing increments.

 

Sounds like Fender has been taken over by De Beers.

 

Last year, Fender announced a custom-design program offering consumers the ability to build a custom guitar and buy it directly from the company via its Web site. Taylor Guitars offers a similar program, except the sale goes through a dealer, thus keeping the dealer relationship intact. At the time, and despite assurances from our Fender sales representative and his boss that only high-end custom guitars would be available direct, it seemed like a test balloon for further direct sales.

 

I was shopping for a computer gear on the Canadian Future Shop website the other day and I noticed (to my surprise) they were selling over 600 guitars/guitar-oriented products. Major guitar brands included Fender, Gibson, ESP and Epiphone. We are talking LP Standards, SG Standards, Fender Vintage Brand Strats etc. Nice stuff. Most of these items are marked as 'Available Online' and 'Reservable in store'. I am also aware of the large online retailers in the States like GC etc.

 

http://www.futureshop.ca/Search/SearchResults.aspx?type=product&filter=category%3AMusical+Instruments+%26+Equipment%3Bcategory%3AGuitars&query=guitars&page=1&sortBy=price&sortDir=desc

 

I never thought I would see this kind of physical detachment in the music retail biz. In the old days if you were a dedicated player(not even a pro) you had a relationship with your music store. You knew the owner and employees, and these relationships were extremely important for both the player and the store. You could tell them you were looking for a new guitar of a certain type and they would call you when a 'good one' came in. If you had to take your guitar in for work or mods, they would lend you one if you had a gig. If gigs were short and you owed them money they were patient and understanding, allowing you extra time to pay with no interest charge. In return you would give them all of your business and pass on as much business to them as possible via referral. There was strong customer/dealer loyalty.

 

It really saddens me to see the paradigm shifting to such a clinical transaction medium. Now that the purchasing process is so impersonal it marginalizes what was once an epic event: the purchase of a brand new guitar. I remember the store employees and fellow customers alike smiling and offering up congrats when someone bought a new guitar, which helped make the event that much more special.

 

In short: times have changed and I don't like it...any chance we can go back to the way things were? ;-)

[kelly campbell]

I agree..I always tell my wife that change is not always better sometimes it ends up being worse....this is an instance of that in my opinion.

[rocketman]

I guess I'm lucky that the HOG is close to me. These big companies prey on the uninformed by offering "deals" but they are all the same price. Yeah I squeezed a set of strings out of them here and there, but nothing like the deals I get at the HOG. Plus I get real great customer care. Bruce, one of the owners, told me to come in on a particular Saturday when the Gibson rep would be visiting. He said that I could squeeze out an extra $100 from him on my 339. Sure enough I did! Plus they send their salespeople for training on the brands they sell. I can have a serious intellectual conversation with them, and really learn something. As I said I'm lucky, so I'll count my blessings.

[awel]

So perhaps this is One of the reason John Mayer leaves Fender

[kidblast]

^-- hahaha!!

 

Actually I think it had more to do with Mike Eldred than anything else. At least that's what the word was from the forum posts in Fender forum

[awel]

You know I find All of this so sad, I mean I would like so much to say I'm buying my Stuff in a little shop, but, I don't, there is a huge différence of price between shop like GC in USA / musicstore in Europe and small shop plus they have almost everything in stock.

I wish I can say, f... It, I don't agrée with Gibson or Fender politics so I will never ever play it anymore and go for some other brand. But I can't, I love my Fenders and Gibsons so whatever they'll do I will still play Gibson and Fender.

 

Sad but true.

[tinman1]

Interesting.

 

As much as this is probably a sad reflection of the "modern" music/ instrument business, I can't complain too much having just bought an excellent new 2013 R8 from a big European online store (sight unseen)!

 

These online stores are winning the battle on many fronts for good reason, not least prices which are so much better than brick and mortar stores (in many but not all cases) that the benefits of trying the guitar in advance are outweighed by savings. Particularly as all these stores offer no questions asked return policies, some up to 30 days.

 

I chose my R8 based on specs, weight (thanks to obliging stores) and appearance rather than how that specific guitar felt. I could have had egg in my face but I was lucky. I had more confidence in the QC as it was a historic too. In terms of appearance it meant I essentially had R8s from an entire continent to choose from, rather than just my local store!

 

IMO the majority of amateur, intermediate level players (such as myself) would be hard pushed to tell minor differences in tone (and feel given proper setups) when comparing two "same-model" guitars in a shop. Many of you may disagree but that's my own experience.

 

EDIT: And btw I got a new 2013 R8 for the exact same price as a new 2015 USA standard! It would be madness not to consider that a better deal all around just because I hadn't played it first. I'd seen high quality photos in advance so I knew exactly what it looked like. If by some freak the historic had arrived with loose frets, twisted neck and cracked fingerboard I would have simply returned it.

[rct]

These online stores are winning the battle on many fronts for good reason,

 

It isn't a battle, it's a rout. That ammunition is money, the big guys can afford to be in the fight, and the little guys can't. They aren't competing on service, returns, repairs, or good advice. They are competing on access to inventory. That's a shame.

 

rct

[tinman1]

It isn't a battle, it's a rout. That ammunition is money, the big guys can afford to be in the fight, and the little guys can't. They aren't competing on service, returns, repairs, or good advice. They are competing on access to inventory. That's a shame.

 

rct

 

True in some regards. Although I'd argue that there are some elements of service required, ie good email and telephone communication/ advice and good returns policy buying online too. Indeed, if you want to try a guitar out with all your own equipment in the comfort of your own home buying online might even be better given the no quibbles returns policies offered by distance sellers.

 

Advice is variable shop to shop. Agreed good advice is worth a lot but not IMO hundreds of pounds/dollars. Small shops aren't charities- they're trying to run a profitable business too and in my experience local "advice" is often far from unbiased or without agenda.

 

Repairs I'll give you. Many guitar techs are based in shop basements and it would be a travesty to lose them locally. I can't imagine having to ship a guitar of somewhere to a manufacturer in the absense of a local tech.

[tinman1]

I'd also add that most of the best guitar advice I get comes from the local tech himself...although he works in the shop basement he is independent and none of his advice has an agenda or is aimed at clearing units.

 

Even the friendliest, most genuine local shop workers/ salesmen are all out to shift slow selling stock and improve margins yadda yadda. There is far more impartial advice available online and in magazine/ website review articles.

[rct]

True in some regards. Although I'd argue that there are some elements of service required, ie good email and telephone communication/ advice and good returns policy buying online too. Indeed, if you want to try a guitar out with all your own equipment in the comfort of your own home buying online might even be better given the no quibbles returns policies offered by distance sellers.

I agree completely. The Return Policy is the winner for the online sellers. I've enjoyed 45 days of no questions asked returns, and after no tax and free shipping and at least 15% under local retail, that can be pretty hard to beat.

Advice is variable shop to shop. Agreed good advice is worth a lot but not IMO hundreds of pounds/dollars. Small shops aren't charities- they're trying to run a profitable business too and in my experience local "advice" is often far from unbiased or without agenda.

I agree again. But I don't need advice, so I generally get myself out of advice situations. I'm not slagging anyone, small shop or large, but I usually have a case or two that are older than the person trying to give me advice. Which is fine, I just often wonder what advice they are giving people that actually need it!

Repairs I'll give you. Many guitar techs are based in shop basements and it would be a travesty to lose them locally. I can't imagine having to ship a guitar of somewhere to a manufacturer in the absense of a local tech.

I agree again. I'm lucky there is a great old amp tech not far and a really great guitar tech a little further. I don't need them much, the amp guy for a bias maybe, because I don't bother to learn and buy the stuff to do that myself because really, how often do you need that? When I was gigging, sure, my amps got attention and I paid him happily for the reliability that comes with well maintained amps. I would not ever take it to the local big guy, I have no idea who he is using. I don't need a guitar tech, I do my own things, but I feel bad for people that need one, I'm not sure what they do.

 

So, what were we arguing about again? [laugh]

 

Inventory. That's it. When I go into a shop, big or small, and they say "...we can order that for you...have it in a week...", I have the usual answer, which is So Can I, Have It In Three Days. To me that's a shame. It is truly obviating* the need for any store, big or small. That's a tough spot to get out of, I don't know how they can ever reverse that.

 

rct

 

*extra points for the 2 dollar word. Didn't see that coming, did you judges?

[BobF_]

.. It is truly obviating* the need for any store ...

 

rct

 

*extra points for the 2 dollar word. Didn't see that coming, did you judges?

 

 

Nice, one of my favorite words. :)

[tinman1]

I think you're *obfuscating the argument with your impressive vocabulary!

 

Glad we're in agreement! As it happens, I took the local shop up on their "we'll order you're guitar in" offer when I bought a strat a few years ago. The guitar that arrived (already paid for!!) was as pot luck as ordering unseen online.

 

In hindsight there really was no advantage other than helping out the local shop. Now they know my name and budget they are better informed when they sidetrack my attempts at "guitar talk" to lead me towards some slow selling wall hanger to extole its virtues!

[tinman1]

I think you're *obfuscating the argument with your impressive vocabulary!

 

Glad we're in agreement! As it happens, I took the local shop up on their "we'll order you're guitar in" offer when I bought a strat a few years ago. The guitar that arrived (already paid for!!) was as pot luck as ordering unseen online.

 

In hindsight there really was no advantage other than helping out the local shop. Now they know my name and budget they are better informed when they sidetrack my attempts at "guitar talk" to lead me towards some slow selling wall hanger to extole its virtues!

[kidblast]

*extra points for the 2 dollar word. Didn't see that coming, did you judges?

 

Gosh Golly Rich,, no we didn't...

[Marshall Paul]

Bottom line, Gibson, Epiphone and Fender make an excellent instrument. However, they're sh?t companies, especially when having to deal with them. All three have had their heads go underwater several times in their not so illustrious careers and have had to be bailed out. They're so obnoxious, that they never learn from their past history, and they don't look around them as to what's being done and what's happening with their products. Their after sales support has always been the pits and I know, I've been buying their guitars for over 40 years. Sad state of affairs I believe. They've had their collective heads up their collective arses for so long now they don't know any other way. Maybe they just like the view from up there, who know's. I just want to walk into a brick and mortar shop and deal with a real person, the.....shop owner! That makes me comfortable. Gibson, hello? Wake up and smell the coffee. Us guitar players down here in Australia are seriously rapidly running out of patience with you. Get your act together, loosen up and start listening to us! Sorry fellow forum members, it's just that after 40 years, this particular issue really irks me.

That's my pint of fluid vented from my spleen today, sorry again.

p.s. Same go's for Epiphone and Fender.

[Marshall Paul]

There is more to democracy than voting for poeple in office.

 

The wallet is one of the best forms of that, and even speaks more. It's only one vote and may not seem to make a difference, but all the votes count. We all vote every day.

 

Me, I am grateful for the paychecks I get. I don't think I am the only one who has visions of my bosses knowing who I am and having some sort of responsibility in wanting to put me in a position to give me money for what I do for them. Why shouldn't I care about the same thing when it is my turn?

 

I don't shop at Wal-mart because I don't want to support companies that move our economy to China. It's that simple.

 

When it comes to buying online vs Guitar Center vs Mom and Pop, I realize full well there is a price difference coming out of my pocket. But for me, the truth is, I would prefer to SEE the guy who is getting my money, and I like to know where and who is getting my portion of the money. Even if it is just a salesman, at least I have a chance of knowing how his boss treats him, maybe what kind of guy he is. And, I can SEE what they do to perform to EARN that money. So if it's a couple hundred more for a guitar, I feel better about that that just kissing the whole purchase price goodbye. It's gone forever anyway.

 

Point is, (and I am just as guilty as anyone), the fact that online dominates and brick and morter is gone is a result of our own votes.

 

 

So, next time, listen up and vote differently people...simple. (life begins with first breathe, and first step).

[Marshall Paul]

Two things that will never disappear are greed and stupidity.

 

Greed tends to breed other things like arrogance and indifference. Once a Board Of Directors and Marketing take over, each and every product then becomes aimed at a Target Demographic. The "harder" they work, the higher the targeted demographics' disposable income must become. There has been a descriptive phrase for this around for a long time: pricing oneself out of a job. It took care of Detroit. The worst part is, Statistics label it simply as a "trend" and there is no moral obligation to accept either the implications or responsibility of the outcome.

 

Consumers who can afford it will settle for "close enough" instead of "exactly what they want", and be happy as long as they can get it on terms. They won't care about those who can't.

Those with more money will dictate what is for sale to anyone else. Those with little to no disposable income will be reduced to taking scraps where they can get them.

 

The guys in the middle have been being phased out for some time now. We may all have been affected by it in one form or another. It is called downsizing. Not much sits in warehouses any more unless that warehouse is also a point of sale.

Manufacturers treat independent dealers like they are warehousing subsidiaries. The stuff that sells quickly will be in a distribution hub for a short time. Stuff that doesn't, won't. If you want something different be prepared to wait or spend more, or both.

 

Buying online taps into the human "I want it now" gratification center. Choosing options makes it an even more "enjoyable" experience. Marketing constantly fine tunes the delivery of this opiate for each consumer.

 

Try arguing with an Economist about the meaning of the word progress. They'll "trickle down" on you every time. If you don't like the way its done, don't buy it.

 

Σß

 

 

Yup! :(

[Marshall Paul]

The world is changing,

 

I dont recognize the vehicles that roll beside me on the road and there is so many now. They move so fast its scary sometimes. The Camero and the Mustang are not the Camero and the Mustang anymore. They put things in and on my new guitar that I dont recognize or even want there. The Les Paul... They Changed The Les Paul! Its a plastic fretboarded Self Tuning Solderless Battery powered monstrosity. They Changed The Camero! The Camero?! It should have never changed. My mother watched the CMAs and cried. She said thats not Country Music anymore. I listen to the local Rock Radio Station, 98.9 The Rock and I cant stand the music for long its not the Rock N Roll I like anymore. We have a Classic Rock Station 101 The Fox but where is the new Rock N Roll bands? They are on the Country Stations like Blackberry Smoke.

The 4 Track tape gave way to the 8 Track tape, The 8 Track gave way to the Cassette, The Cassette gave way to the CD. The LP is gone oh wait its back but the CD sounds better anyway. Now they want to sell us invisible music called MP3s. VHS library is no good switch to DVD oh wait Blu Ray is better but you have to get a HD TV with HDMI to enjoy it. Oh wait we will sell you invisible movies called UV that you dont really own you just log in to look at. We read books that are invisible on our little readers that we log in to look at, no more libraries of books movies and music in homes. We own nothing now and eat synthetic food.

 

So am I surprised that Fender is going to change too? Not at all. No longer can a kid even go into a Musical Instrument Store and get words of wisdom from the old guy behind the counter. He reads it on the internet and orders it on the internet. it will show up at the door in a box.

 

My point is everything is changing now, its all going to change. It sucks and bums me out sometimes, because I know by the time its my time to check out I will not even recognize this place anymore and will be happy to go. My heroes are dying not by tragedies like John Lennon or Elvis, but by natural causes like George Harrison and Jack Bruce. Soon Black Sabbath Led Zeppelin Aerosmith ACDC Ted Nugent and KISS will begin to die off. When all your heroes are gone its your turn next. Everything is changing and I cant stop it so I am going to go with it until I cant go any longer.I just try to hold on best I can and keep my Les Paul, my Strat, and my Marshall as much like they were as I can. That keeps me solid man, that keeps me solid.

 

One swithched on cat! All the more power to ya. ;)