norton Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 guys, for months I have been searching for solution to the humming noise from my amp. I have taken my guitar and amp in to be professional checked and they both came back perfect. Then I went on a crusade ordering things like Hum Eliminator and returning it and then today I received a Surge/Filter electrical thingy and plugged it it, no better, still the damn HUM which gets louder as the volume or gain goes up. We had our favorite electrical/plumbing contractor over today to do some work around the house for us and I asked him about the HUM. He reached into his portable toolbox and pulled out a small grey single plug. The amp plugs into it and it plugs into the wall socket, this little cheap device eliminates the amp ground, takes it out of the loop. The HUM is gone, completely, 100% and it is wonderfully quiet with the volume cranked up. I asked him if there was any electrical risk to doing this and he said really no, that maybe if I walked across a wet concrete floor in my bare feet while carrying the amp plugged into a wall socket that I would get a buzz, but that for my purposes of playing my guitar in my house absolutely no problem, and this guy should know, he is a master Journeyman Electrician, Just thought you all would like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 ... The amp plugs into it and it plugs into the wall socket, this little cheap device eliminates the amp ground, takes it out of the loop. ... This is not funny. Touching a mic with your mouth while touching your guitar with your hands could be lethal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 THANK YOU Cap, in my little world playing at home and not on stage with a microphone, this solved my problem thank you for pointing out this solution may not be appropriate in other circumstances glad you caught this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Well, I experienced that and can guess myself lucky being able to talk about it. I hardly survived an accident on September 29th, 1982 in a TV recording studio at the former Südwestfunk Baden-Baden, Germany, a public-law radio and television broadcasting station. The ground current was flowing through my body between my hands and my mouth. They operated a ground-free balanced power line which is long forbidden now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I dunno if US voltages make that much difference, but I can verify that I've gotten interesting sparks flying between my face and a mike in the two-prong plug days... Switching polarity on an old tube amp covered it pretty much but regardless, nowadays I do use the three-prong (grounded) plugs even with older equipment. I think Cap's right. I wouldn't do it regardless of hum. You may not have a mike, but there are other potential current carriers around. Another... my wife was convinced the house we owned had something odd - perhaps even "ghosts" since she'd see sparkles in the hallway past the furnace/ac unit. Turns out we learned that the whole house was not properly grounded and the potential for a tragedy of one sort or another was right in front of us. In fact, something like that might be worth checking if you're only playing at home. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfrets Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Well, I experienced that... So did Les Harvey (Stone The Crows). Unfortunately, he wasn't as lucky as you were. IIRC, what cost him his life was exactly the scenario you put forth earlier. Cap is right...this situation is potentially lethal and not worth the risk to your health/life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 Cap is right...this situation is potentially lethal and not worth the risk to your health/life. of course Cap is right in that one should not stick their lips on to a microphone while playing an amplified guitar that may have an electrical issue. However, I do not have any issue with my guitar or amp, nor have I exposed myself to any potential danger according to my own master electrician who's advice I am very confident in. Regardless, thank you all for your concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 My concern is that something is faulty within the specific environment. Did your electrician check the wall outlet for proper grounding, e. g. referred to a heating radiator or water pipe? The worst case would be that any conductive device is accidentally connected to the hot wire. These things may happen, and even the grounding leg of the wall outlet could be affected. If this is the case, lifting ground would accidentally reduce hazard, but this is not a solution. BE VERY CAREFUL. I experienced some bad electric faults in the past, most of them in household environments. Lifting ground is only allowed within signal paths or for units which are specifically designed for it, i. e. double insulated, and feature a dedicated switch. Double insulation is also common among home entertainment systems, but very rare among sound reinforcement devices. Also refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 Did your electrician check the wall outlet for proper grounding, e. g. referred to a heating radiator or water pipe yes Cap, and thanks again for the concern, I appreciate it As I mentioned, I have been hunting the source of the hum for many months, and that included having my electrician go through my, new house, carefully, whereby he checked all outlets and the house's grounding and individual shielding. I am quite confident that my house wiring, nor my guitar or amp, which I have had professionally checked out, were the source of the hum. I have found my own solution, and while it certainly may not be for everyone, I just thought it was worth mentioning. Because of the controversy and differences of opinion, I now regret I even brought this up. I have learned a lesson from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 ... Because of the controversy and differences of opinion, I now regret I even brought this up. I have learned a lesson from this. Sorry, I was just worrying about your life and your health. Surviving my lessons taught me to be careful. It may take just one mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Did your electrician check the wall outlet for proper grounding, e. g. referred to a heating radiator or water pipe yes Cap, and thanks again for the concern, I appreciate it As I mentioned, I have been hunting the source of the hum for many months, and that included having my electrician go through my, new house, carefully, whereby he checked all outlets and the house's grounding and individual shielding. I am quite confident that my house wiring, nor my guitar or amp, which I have had professionally checked out, were the source of the hum. I have found my own solution, and while it certainly may not be for everyone, I just thought it was worth mentioning. Because of the controversy and differences of opinion, I now regret I even brought this up. I have learned a lesson from this. You have a photo of the plug? Sorry to hear about the issues. Do you have to use the plug on any other outlet where you plug the amp? Do you know what the plug is and does? Sounds like a ground loop issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 what you are doing is called "Floating the ground"... one of the oldest tricks in the book. you're eliminating the proper grounding of your current. In most cases, it's ok. but hey, all it takes is one time, (from personal experience, I can assure this will not be a pleasant event) and I learned to live with the hum. a common cause can be due to your wiring not being phased correctly in your home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 what you are doing is called "Floating the ground"... one of the oldest tricks in the book. you're eliminating the proper grounding of your current. In most cases, it's probably ok.. but all it takes is one time, (from personal experience, I can assure this will not be a pleasant event) and you'll learn to live with the hum. The reason is probably due to your wiring not being phased correctly in your home. Yeah, thats why to see what was done will be informative for everyone. Could be a pre-60 home and out of code in which case a GFI or re-wiring would be the path. I was just talking about this on another thread, its much more common than most realize and often mickey moused with three prong outlets............... http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=CWaWX6aZkVM39C4WHyQHFyoCIC_Gztc4F2bbRvMcB6av9z8cCCAYQBigGYMn-nofQo9gPyAEHqgQnT9B8aWlealTVDOpsFFlSJl45E12FsB2oojQkRXgAuDdASE4RbGs0wAUFoAYmgAfbgI4VkAcDqAemvhvgEt6f65GjvbzPmQE&sig=AOD64_2432jLqFi4PkxQZvort-fpVMgxTA&ctype=5&rct=j&q=&ved=0CKIBEPQO&adurl=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-117182-37290-0/2%3Fmtid%3D1588%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D53601919689_324272%26itemid%3D161238217574%26targetid%3D87946122729%26rpc%3D0.20%26rpc_upld_id%3D37755%26device%3Dc%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252Flike%252F161238217574%253Flpid%253D82%26adtype%3Dpla Don't know, have to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8_4thesh0w Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Its not the voltage its the amperage.(something I've always heard) European 50hz is not so different from US 60hz when its traveling through your body looking for a way out. Installing GFIC (Ground Fault Interrupter Circuit) would be a fantastic idea for any power supply dedicated to home studio use. They are mandatory in bath and outdoor AC supply in US in all new homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Installing GFIC (Ground Fault Interrupter Circuit) would be a fantastic idea for any power supply dedicated to home studio use. While a great idea, and useful in the bath and on the kitchen counters, GFIC outlets often interpret what an electric device is doing as a ground fault. Christmas lights, f'rinstance. They can also interpret lots of blinky things and slidey things and jog wheel things as ground faults, all things found in yer average studio. So if you run yer studio off of a bunch of GFCIs, prepare for really inconvenient shutdowns. Some also monitor amperage and cut off at maybe 1 or 2% over nominal, as opposed to 10 - 20% at the breaker. That can be significant at times some headroom is needed, and can cause some pretty inconvenenient interruptions just as you are wailing away at that one try solo on your opus. The original poster who lost his hum by having the local Master Electrician simply cut the ground off is in deep crap eventually. If your house is so poorly grounded or looped that you have to take out the ground lug to get something quiet you have a serious problem. I'd suggest finding the other Master Electrician in your county because seriously, just taking out the ground lug is about as white trash a solution as you'll ever find. Something is still not right, quiet amp and all. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 While a great idea, and useful in the bath and on the kitchen counters, GFIC outlets often interpret what an electric device is doing as a ground fault. Christmas lights, f'rinstance. They can also interpret lots of blinky things and slidey things and jog wheel things as ground faults, all things found in yer average studio. So if you run yer studio off of a bunch of GFCIs, prepare for really inconvenient shutdowns. Some also monitor amperage and cut off at maybe 1 or 2% over nominal, as opposed to 10 - 20% at the breaker. That can be significant at times some headroom is needed, and can cause some pretty inconvenenient interruptions just as you are wailing away at that one try solo on your opus. The original poster who lost his hum by having the local Master Electrician simply cut the ground off is in deep crap eventually. If your house is so poorly grounded or looped that you have to take out the ground lug to get something quiet you have a serious problem. I'd suggest finding the other Master Electrician in your county because seriously, just taking out the ground lug is about as white trash a solution as you'll ever find. Something is still not right, quiet amp and all. rct Well said. The electrical quick fix; "He reached into his portable toolbox and pulled out a small grey single plug." Sounds like a 2 to three prong adapter which are a no-no, but I can't see how it would reduce hum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8_4thesh0w Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 While a great idea, and useful in the bath and on the kitchen counters, GFIC outlets often interpret what an electric device is doing as a ground fault. Christmas lights, f'rinstance. They can also interpret lots of blinky things and slidey things and jog wheel things as ground faults, all things found in yer average studio. So if you run yer studio off of a bunch of GFCIs, prepare for really inconvenient shutdowns. Some also monitor amperage and cut off at maybe 1 or 2% over nominal, as opposed to 10 - 20% at the breaker. That can be significant at times some headroom is needed, and can cause some pretty inconvenenient interruptions just as you are wailing away at that one try solo on your opus. rct Wouldn't it be different for running equipment that is rectified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Wouldn't it be different for running equipment that is rectified? I'm not an electronical engineer, and I have never played one on the internet. I have, however, rewired my entire 1971 house, and I've made the mistakes you make when you do that. One of them was too many GFCIs in an attempt to help family members feel "safe". They do exactly what they are supposed to do, and that is interrupt circuits that give them a reason to interrupt them, whether the reason is legitimate or not. I would imagine that reversal of current that recitification does would probably not be invisible to the GFCI, and would probably set it off. GFCIs are like having the guy that drank all 7 of the Monsters, had 8 cups of coffee with a couple packs of Marlboro 100s and some Snickers bars, standing guard. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8_4thesh0w Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I'm not an electronical engineer, and I have never played one on the internet. rct point taken! I did, in fact, remove the single GFCI outlet in my outdoor circuit to run Christmas lights. If there was even a heavy dew it'd kick off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Wouldn't it be different for running equipment that is rectified? If the difference between the current leaving and returning through the transformer of the GFI device is 5 milliamps then they trip. Which is what Cap was indicating with imbalance. Recified in relation to AC to DC, but this doesn't change the imbalance or surge injected into the circuit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 A GFCI has nothing to do with Ground. I never said it did. It measures the amperage on your neutral and compares it to your hot wire, and if it goes over 5 milliamps, I know I said that above, thanks. You can install a GFCI only using the hot and neutral and it will work. I do not recommend doing this. I am not a Master Electrician, I know, I do recommend it and if you knew NEC code you would too. Its not code in your state? but I am an Electrician and have been for the last 25 years And don't know NEC code? Tell me what does the NEC code say about 2-prong outlets? I simply want to know what was done without assuming. Then the issue can be addressed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 All I'm gonna add is that we've a batch of guys with varying backgrounds, but with experience with wiring and/or electric guitars... all suggesting that there could be problems... I'd consider that there could be problems. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Playing through an un-earthed amp is so 'kin dangerous it's ridiculous. Amps can drop dangerous currents to ground very easilly, if there's no ground, you are the ground. THIS IS A BAD IDEA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Yup, my thinking is this, the first thing I would do is check to see if the box is grounded, if thats the case then all that is required is a 3-prong recepticle and 12-2 piece of solid copper romex to run a ground from the recepticle to the box screw for grounding. If the recepticle box isn't grounded[many are] then you still have to follow code in which case you can replace with a 2-prong which in effect does nothing. Or you can place a GFI in as a safety precaution and so forth. However, the circuit will still need to be grounded to correct the issue. Oh and many of us use 3-prong adapters but they are against code. The non grounded areas should be noted so eventually they will be corrected. At the moment its all I see, and its an assumption that an adapter was used. How it stopped the hum I don't know. Maybe he added a ground to the box and used a 3-prong adapter because he had no new 3-prong outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitedrifter Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Hum is pretty much normal as it is coming from your electrical wiring. Drop that 2 prong plug (or prepare to possibly get killed) and use this: http://tinyurl.com/pzwyrf4 Your electrician should have his license yanked for what he showed you. At best you should never use him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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