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Legend Tail Block


duluthdan

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I am going to install a Trance Amulet "M" (Mono) into my J-45 Legend. As part of the install instructions I need to figure out the depth of the endpin block. Easy enough to do if I could slip a wire in there, but I can't seem to easily remove the endpin. For standard installation the tail block needs to be no more than 7/8" deep. There is a modification available for a block up to 1 1/32 in depth. Deeper than that, and the block hole would have to be counter sunk - I gather from the inside, which would require me to drive at least 8 hours, over 2 mountain passes, in winter conditions (closest reliable Luthier) . Something I do not want to do.

 

Any ideas on how thick this tail block is?

72c2f376-9dca-4c5d-a738-8a6e43d35569_zpsb72faedf.jpg

 

Alternatively, anyone know why / how this endpin seems to not want to simply unscrew, or easily come out? If I can figure this out, I will do the install myself, otherwise its a long dangerous winter drive.

ece635dd-482e-40c1-930b-614133e1fd82_zps0d2be677.jpg

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The end pin should just be a tapered pin with a friction fit. I've had them seize up in humid weather, or simply from the guitar resting on the endpin. You can almost always free them by wiggling and twisting, although I have had an old one break off from celluloid rot.

 

In that case, I removed the strings and inserted a piece of wooden dowel into the soundhole, resting the end of dowel against the endpin where it passes through the tailblock. A little tap on the end of the dowel with a plastic mallet, and it popped right out.

 

I just made a little hook feeler gauge out of a paper clip, and checked the thickness of the tailblock at the endpin on my '48 J-45. It was 7/8", which means a 3/4" block plus 1/8" rim thickness. My tailblock does not have beveled edges the way yours does. I also used the same gauge to check the tailblock on my L-OO Legend, which has the same beveled edges yours does, and the total thickness on that guitar is 3/4", including the thickness of the rim.

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Can't help with the block size, but as far as removing the button goes I've successfully loosened stuck end pins using rubber from a bicycle inner tube to get a proper grip on the button and using a firm but controlled twisting motion. A note of caution though, if it doesn't loosen easily the more force you apply the greater the risk of a piece of lacquer flaking off when it does move.

 

The last resort if you don't mind losing the end pin is to simply drill through the existing button - pilot hole first then widen it. I've had to do that once with an end pin that was glued in. I made a plastic caul to protect the guitar, and had someone else hold the guitar whilst I sawed through the button (so that I would be drilling into a flat surface rather than the domed top of the button) and drilled through. Scary stuff on an expensive guitar!

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Nick, thanks for the measurements - sounds like I'll be safe ordering the stock Trnce.

Jayyl: [scared] I may be a bit timid, I don't want to crank on that pin to get it out, and sawing it flat so I can driil it out? Well. I suppose I'm going to be drilling / reaming anyway. Still is bit scary.

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Dan, I'm curious why that type of end pin is on your Legend. Had there previously been a jack there before ?

All the modern Gibsons I've encountered had their typical surface mounted pin with a screw ! I know the Legend I had did.

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Dan, I'm curious why that type of end pin is on your Legend. Had there previously been a jack there before ?

All the modern Gibsons I've encountered had their typical surface mounted pin with a screw ! I know the Legend I had did.

Beats the world out of me. It does not at all seem to be a screw in type. Looking at an enlargement of the area in the neck block almost seems as if its glued in there? There are no other tell tail sounds of electronics, perhaps there were, and if so, I wish they were still there. I am in love with this guitar. The neck, the tone, the burst.

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All the modern Gibsons I've encountered had their typical surface mounted pin with a screw ! I know the Legend I had did.

 

 

Interesting. My Fuller's '43 SJ had a screwed-in endpin, which I removed, and bored out for a "proper" tapered endpin. The Legend, however, came bored for the endpin.

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Dan,

 

I took a peek in my legend and there's no bolt head in there. It's just pressed in. Maybe you're right and someone did have it drilled out already, Hopefully you'll just take the bolt out from inside and you'll be good to go.

 

Dave

 

 

 

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duluthdan-I find myself distressed that you want to start putting holes and electronics in your Legend! I don't know why but I do. I know from your previous posts that your JB, at least, has a pickup, and one of the best available. From the pics you've posted of your Legend it is such a clean and simply beautiful guitar. Because you have others you can plug in it just has me wondering why you want to electrify it? Of course ultimately, it's not any of my business what you do with your own things but, whoa...It's just a purist streak surfacing I guess.

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duluthdan-I find myself distressed that you want to start putting holes and electronics in your Legend! I don't know why but I do. I know from your previous posts that your JB, at least, has a pickup, and one of the best available. From the pics you've posted of your Legend it is such a clean and simply beautiful guitar. Because you have others you can plug in it just has me wondering why you want to electrify it? Of course ultimately, it's not any of my business what you do with your own things but, whoa...It's just a purist streak surfacing I guess.

 

 

 

Yeah, once drilled it's done!

 

 

A few people like these 'vintage jacks' which fit in the current hole - saves drilling...

 

 

http://www.tapastring.com/vintagejack.htm

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

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Dan,

 

I took a peek in my legend and there's no bolt head in there. It's just pressed in. Maybe you're right and someone did have it drilled out already, Hopefully you'll just take the bolt out from inside and you'll be good to go.

 

Dave

 

 

Dave, you've got me confused. Is your tail block drilled clear through, and the endpin pressed in so that you can see it when looking inside the guitar? I'm not quite sure why there would be a bolt head in any of these. The screwed-in endpins I have see are just that: the external head of the endpin, with a steel screw thread projecting out of the bottom. This is just screwed into the un-bored tail block: no through-bolt, no through-hole.

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duluthdan-I find myself distressed that you want to start putting holes and electronics in your Legend! I don't know why but I do. I know from your previous posts that your JB, at least, has a pickup, and one of the best available. From the pics you've posted of your Legend it is such a clean and simply beautiful guitar. Because you have others you can plug in it just has me wondering why you want to electrify it? Of course ultimately, it's not any of my business what you do with your own things but, whoa...It's just a purist streak surfacing I guess.

For a variety of reasons, the JB is on the selling block. Love the neck on the JB, and the tone, and the stuff I play the Legend seems to have many of the same tonal attributes. I find that I am almost always reaching for the J45 TV or the Legend. I prefer to have the flexibility of plugging in, and the Trance Mono, which was in my SJ, makes that easy. That JB is really a magnifiicent instrument, with top-notch state of the art pickup, that's for sure, but since it has much the same use and allure for me that the Legend has, and it'd be nice to have the dough at this time, the JB is on the block. Of course I do second guess this decision every day, but truth is, its the right thing to do, for me.

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Dave, you've got me confused. Is your tail block drilled clear through, and the endpin pressed in so that you can see it when looking inside the guitar? I'm not quite sure why there would be a bolt head in any of these. The screwed-in endpins I have see are just that: the external head of the endpin, with a steel screw thread projecting out of the bottom. This is just screwed into the un-bored tail block: no through-bolt, no through-hole.

 

Unless I'm seeing it wrong, it looks like Dan's has a hex head bolt and it looks like wrench marks surrounding it

 

Here's a shot inside mine

 

insideendpin_zpsbf2570f9.jpg

 

 

 

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I suspect that's just an illusion caused by the fuzzy photo.

I will try to get a clearer photo. Would really make me scratch my head if it was a hex nut of some sort - but fit appears to have "wrench circles: around it. Will have to get a better look.

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Ok, here's a better close-up. Does NOT appear to be a nut, but does appear to some sort of circular marks. Possible that this thing is glued in? [scared] Not sure what my next step should be here. I hate to have to drive all the way from Aspen to Boulder. 4 hours one way, in the winter, over a couple mountain passes. Not sure if I have enough room to get any sort of hammer and punch to move this thing. Frustration. Any ideas? / Observations?

PC230961_zpsc339cff1.jpg

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I can't believe it is anything other than a tightly-fitting tapered pin. The hole through the tail block may be a straight hole (not tapered), or one that used a tapered reamer on a smaller-diameter hole. I can't really tell from the photo.

 

Chances are that it's a straight hole (just like the holes for your tapered bridge pins), slightly smaller than the fattest diameter of the tapered pin shaft. When you push the pin in, it binds up on the shaft and is held firmly in place.

 

I know that's the way it was on my old J-45. I actually had the hole bushed with a thin mahogany shaving glued in so that the pin would stay in place. The hole had just gotten a bit worn over 60+ years.

 

I would remove the strings and feel inside to see if the pin projects through the tail block and into the guitar. If it does, it's dead simple to tap it out using the method I outlined above. I don't believe the factory would have glued it in, but it is possible a previous owner did. It really should only take a small tap to free it, unless it is glued in. If it doesn't project through at least 1/8" or so, removing may require a bit more finesse.

 

I have no idea what those marks on the face of the tail block are.

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This may be a dumb idea, but maybe you could modify somekind of small gear puller. I thought of a bridge pin puller like on the machinehead winders (whatever they are called), but they do not give an even or perpendicular pull. As Nick suggested it should not take much to break it lose. I would definitely try Nick's method first.

 

chasAK

 

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Those marks on the tail block are really strange. You need to try to confirm that this is not some kind of screwed-in pin, even though I have never seen one that goes through the block. I would try to twist the pin out with an unscrewing and pulling motion, just in case. It might take a bit of force, and more than bare fingers, like pliers wrapped in tape, with tape over the guitar's finish to protect it. I use the tape specified for delicate surfaces, and take it off immediately and carefully when you are finished.

 

If you can confirm that what we are seeing in these pictures is plastic/bone/wood, it should be safe to try to punch it out. If it is metal (on the inside), you need to try to unscrew it.

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