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My take on the 2015


stein

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I don't think the new nut is going to work. I really wanted it to, and looked like a good idea. But there are some real issues it didn't know about until I tried it.

 

G-force? On the fence. it works, but not totally. Good for the couch, but not for the stage.

 

Neck shape and size, if you like OM-style acoustics and fingerstyle might be an upgrade.

 

More detail to come after a few smokes and some food.

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OK now. Here is a little detail for you:

 

The nut: To me, I find the nut on any guitar to be important both in tuning, and action. I think a nut cut to perfection makes as much difference in the overall action as does adjustments to the bridge. And ,part of that COULD be a matter of taste. Get a real low string height at the nut and you can get some nice, low action. But for some...

 

So, I really wanted to like it. It would be real cool not only to be able to adjust any new guitar as "I" like it, but also, adjustable means reversible. Obvious benefits here.

 

But...and this is huge, it MUST be smooth and not bind the strings. The two I tried were not. But also, something I didn't plan on, was the "zero fret" part allowed the string to get stuck somewhat when doing aggressive bends close to the nut. So, depending on the bend, the string didn't end up back at exactly the same spot. Also, at least one had a small groove in it already. so a bend causes the string to catch. The strings moving across the zero fret scraped across and made horrible noises as if the string might break. Lots of friction, but not enough to keep the strings put when doing bends.

 

Pressing the string down behind the nut showed it "failed" like a badly cut nut as far as a guitar being able to stay in tune. Notes went sharp and stayed there until the string was stretched on the fingerboard side again.

 

Also, string spacing: Sometimes, a guy might have the nut replaced to get a better string spacing. The way these are spaced, it doesn't seem to fit with the neck size. (I would say more on that when describing the neck). I think most would be inclined to want to change the string spacing, which may or may not be an option depending if blanks for these new nuts are available.

 

So, conclusion: Sure, it may be adjustable, and perhaps it works. But other than that, they show every defect that would cause someone to have to replace or work on a nut aside from height. It acts like a nut cut wrong. Could that be fixed? Maybe if it was polished and adjusted regularly it might. I wouldn't say unless I tried.

 

Good news is it seems to me the nut can be replaced on these just like a normal guitar. I wouldn't buy a 2000+ dollar guitar based on a 15 dollar part anyway..

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Well, I thinks it's time now I discuss MY feelings on the neck....

 

I used to play a bit of accoustic, in a (sort of) fingerstyle bluesy kinda way. So, I played more than a few OM style accoustics. There are lots of guys besides me that do it more and do it better, so I ain't the only one.

 

When comparing the necks on the two LP's to most OM style necks, I think they are at least as good. I think a guy who really likes the extra room between strings an OM has could really appreciate these.

 

They kinda had a "wide flat" feeling to them that was also smooth, and a little more natural than some of the hard-V shapes or sharp shoulders you might find on a lot of OM's.

 

Of corse, the string spacing was off, to the point that it felt odd and a little awkward to me, even though I feel quite at home with either an OM size neck or a narrower one. Felt off because it was off. For such a wide neck, the strings were spaced pretty close. They may be spaced "normal" for most electrics, but they felt narrower to me, problably because of the extra space on both sides of the neck, which was excessive.

 

I don't know how many would put up with the difference in string spacing and neck size as it is. But considering that string spacing could be changed, I think there is a lot of potential in these for a lot of guys.

 

But...I think you HAVE to change the string spacing. If you just put a regular plastic nut (or bone for you folks that can tell the difference and can't sleep knowing there is), you ain't any further put back than what we have been used to for years.

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I hate the 2015 models. It's like Gibson said, "Let's take everything everyone loves about our guitars and change it." The new necks suck. I don't like the new nuts. The scribble writing on the headstocks looks like crap. I don't want automatic tuning systems, they look like crap. I want a classic guitar like you made in the 50's. Stop trying to change a classic guitar. People already like them for what they are. I could maybe see doing one model that way for 2015, but in my opinion Gibson screwed themselves when they decided to make every new guitar like that. I won't be buying any more brand new Gibsons. I hate the changes. It's sad because Gibson is my favorite guitar manufacturer, but if this is how every guitar is going to be from now on then I will only be buying used pre 2015 Gibsons from here on out.

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Well, where I live, it appears the odds are virtually 1,000 to one against me even having an opportunity to see/touch one of these in the foreseeable future.

 

But a point on necks and nuts and such: My heaven may be your hades.

 

I am concerned about Stein's comment about an apparent sticking on the zero fret, though. That's dead wrong and shouldn't happen regardless of company doing the manufacture of any sort of zero fret device or neck design.

 

m

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I went to 2 GC's. Not the best place around here to find guitars, but...

 

There were plenty of 2014 models and even 2013 models to be had. I kinda feel that by the time they sell out, it will be time for 2016 models.

 

I have to admit, I don't like the script on the headstock. But it isn't really as bad in person. And as for what the whole of the headstock looks like and possibly playing it out, I think what shoes I wear are of more concern.

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give it time,

 

Who ever whipped up these ill conceived ideas will bring themselves back down to the same planet the rest of us are on...

 

Like many have said -- with these new "features", I'm happy that I'm NOT in the market right now...

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I'd like to get a 2015 and play it during a 4 hour set to see how beneficial the auto-tuner system works in a live setting.... Everything else I can live with... The nut thing doesn't bother me because some of my guitars with Floyds have steel nuts and work well

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I'd like to get a 2015 and play it during a 4 hour set to see how beneficial the auto-tuner system works in a live setting.... Everything else I can live with... The nut thing doesn't bother me because some of my guitars with Floyds have steel nuts and work well

In this case, you would likely be replacing the nut. Not so much the materiel, but the fact the nuts on these bind and cause tuning issues.

 

THEN, perhaps, the G-force could get a fair shot at how it really works, or CAN work....gonna comment on what little I learned here on the next post.

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G-force. Auto tune.

 

As some might suspect or know, I am NOT a fan of the whole concept. My personal reasons are that if a guy can't tune his guitar, he needs to learn. And also, if a guy CAN tune his guitar and keep it that way, as in playing live, the G-force way involves a whole new way of dealing with that and it may or may not make it easier.

 

Seems to me, most guys who play live are used to making sure the strings are stretched, making sure the guitar goes back in tune after bends or whammy stuff, and referencing whatever tuner they have in the set-up to see that it is.

 

This is done BEFORE the guitar is "ready", and usually a minute or so before a set, or only a second or so between tunes. So, like really fast. If it takes any longer than that, the guitar usually has an issue and you might usually have it fixed or take it out of the rig for that night or show or whatever.

 

Also, most players I know (including me), get used to the fact that guitars go out of tune and listen for it, and can hear when it does. It's kinda like a practiced "skill" that when you hear something out, you can quickly find it and fix it because you usually know where it is because you are used to tuning it up in the first place. Even to the point of compensating for a particular string that is out.

 

So...in my humble opinion, pushing one button to tune all the strings kinda scares me. It seems in contradiction to the above method, as it requires the whole reference may change of where you THINK you are at, and if something goes wrong, where are you? If one string is going out and you keep tuning it with a button, how do you keep track of it? If there IS a problem keepng the particular guitar in tune, it seems using a self-tune feature makes it harder for the guy playing it to catch it. AND you have to keep track that the tuner is working. I have enough trouble making sure the tuner I am using is set to tune at 440. I've made that mistake a few times.

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I dunno...

 

I watch vids of Leo Kottke performances and there he is with that utterly unworldly dry sense of humor while he's tuning between songs.

 

Back in my folkie days retuning seemed almost at times for some folks to be part of the performance.

 

I used to do that too. This piece in standard, that piece in G; maybe something else with a drop D. Next pull into E.

 

So I dunno. I kinda gave up on that sorta stuff around 10 years ago.

 

But I also get a kick outa folks with their electronic tuning devices getting the guitar to a quadrillionth of theoretical correct pitch, then hold the doggone guitar so they're actually pulling it outa tune.

 

Alas, what happened to the pitch pipe that our ear might use. <grin> Come to think of it, my smartphone's Martin tuning ap is a virtual pitch pipe. Hmmmm.

 

Still... who knows? If I got one of these things I might return to those thrilling days of yesteryear an mess again with pickin' in various nonstandard tunings. Maybe not. I dunno.

 

m

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when you are playing outside in 80 to 100 degree temps the best set-up guitar will go out of tune.... Also stage lighting can reek havoc on tuning stability. If the gforce tuning system works as advertised, you can tune between every song and only have to focus on guitar sound preset programs and vocal programs. I have over 30 guitar preset sounds and 12 vocal presets I use during one gig, and if I can take tuning out of the equation that would help tremendously. Especially when playing outdoors.

 

I am intrigued by the zero-fret deal.... I would bet that would work great on acoustic guitars

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So...how did it work for me?

 

Well, push a button, strum the strings, and the tuners all buzz around and bingo- that was easy. Kinda fun.

 

I didn't really spend to much time figuring the whole thing out, like what buttons do what. But I did do it enough to see if it worked every time, and it does tell you when a string is STILL out by blinking the light for that string urging you to do it again. On one guitar, it did this about half the time, and usually, the same high E.

 

So, in that sense, I guess it would be easy to get a "feel" for which string might be causing a problem if you were using the thing as a tuner for a live gig.

 

But, as I have said already, the nut was really bad. So nearly every time I would bend a few strings, the guitar went out. Did this on both guitars I tried it on.

 

Robo could'nt fix the guitar from going out of tune. But when it was out of tune, it was faster and easier then tuning the whole thing. Made me a little lazy. So, I tried to "fool" robo by doing a bend or a chord while trying to make it tune. It was hard to do that. Robo was stubborn that way. Patient. It waited till I was done screwing around and then bliked "do it again". There is a delay in it while it reads the strings and it seemed pretty reliable.

 

However, for a single string, it was slower. You have to strum the strings, wait a time while it "reads", then it tunes. If it doesn't do all this in time, you have to do it again, and sometimes you would have to. I could tune 3 bad strings in the time it took to let robo read and tune.

 

What I didn't like was on one guitar, I didn't get a "solid" confirmation from robo it was good to go most of the time. Both guitars acted a little different from each other concerning the G-force. Without confirmation that I could personally understand, I am back to my old ways.

 

I didn't spend enough time with Robo to learn how to tell everything about it, how to read it fully, to be able to say how it might actually work and the potential of using it live. I wouldn't at this point from the limited time I spent with them. That's because they weren't fast enough and a little too confusing to do a better job than doing it myself the "old way". And I doubt that learning the whole instruction manual is going to change that.

 

But, to be fair, how they work on a guitar that doesn't have tuning issues from the start might be different in how they actually work.

 

For the couch? Heck yea I would. Screwing around with different pickups and strings? Push a button? Why the heck not?

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when you are playing outside in 80 to 100 degree temps the best set-up guitar will go out of tune.... Also stage lighting can reek havoc on tuning stability. If the gforce tuning system works as advertised, you can tune between every song and only have to focus on guitar sound preset programs and vocal programs. I have over 30 guitar preset sounds and 12 vocal presets I use during one gig, and if I can take tuning out of the equation that would help tremendously. Especially when playing outdoors.

 

I am intrigued by the zero-fret deal.... I would bet that would work great on acoustic guitars

From 1974 or so until 2003, I never left a gig, studio, jam, or rehearsal wishing upon all of the stars that I could find a better, faster, more surer fireer way to tune a guitar. Indoors or out, flatbed in winter or flatbed in summer or warehouse with no hvac systems or Baltimore nightclub with no ventilation or Philly bar with no doors, in all kindsa weather, never wished for more. Tuning the guitar(s) was always a part of the job, and most of us(the imperial us) guitar players could just lean back and move the machines the right amount without even really hearing it, especially if you have the same machines on all yer guitars, which is how I always did it.

 

I was extraordinarily lucky in my career and never needed any sort of mechanical help to get and keep a guitar in tune, or others have been extraordinarily unlucky in theirs, so they see a need for this.

 

Feiten and his zero frets have been around since I started playing, nothing to see there. Some swear by it, some don't, some don't care. I've never known what the benefit is. My guitars have always either intonated well and stayed around, or didn't and didn't.

 

rct

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We always look for making the live performance easier, which is why I moved away from stomp boxes and multiple amp set-ups and now use sound modeling presets....

 

We always strive for the stars to align when playing a show, because people pay and take the time to come out and see us perform.... If it makes the band sound better, and the show go more smoothly then I'm all for it.... If it was all about me, than I would still be using large rigs and stomp boxes that take my focus off the crowd and the band. I run everything through my ipad and a quick glance lets me know where the band and I are at.... modern technology is a wonderful thing....Less stuff to carry and set up time is a snap.

 

Less dead time between songs.... The more songs we can play

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give it time,

 

Who ever whipped up these ill conceived ideas will bring themselves back down to the same planet the rest of us are on...

 

Probablly some snoot with a MBA in the Marketing department at Gibson. If his ideas fly, he'll walk on hallowed ground. If not, he will be looking for a job.

 

The automatic tuners are perfect for Squier guitars. Something to help the new guy over the first hurdle.

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and only have to focus on guitar sound preset programs and vocal programs. I have over 30 guitar preset sounds and 12 vocal presets I use during one gig,

 

...and linked with blue-tooth so the sound guy/stage manager can control the sound and the lighting with his I-phone and just tranfer the info to everyone else. "Here's the set. I'll send it to you"

 

...Then one day, your playing and everything goes dark and quiet and before anyone starts to guess why, the phone rings. It's your daughter calling. 7,500 hundred poeple now know you're buying her a horse.

 

Some guys are better and more comfortable with technology than others. I have heard of some who loved the robot guitars when they came out. There are lots of players that are good at keeping track of presets and good at doing the "homework" involved with that which results in an easier set, or "better" set, so to speak.

 

I am kinda biased the other way. I don't even like using a "modified" guitar wired differently than usual because I have a tendancy to hit the switch and not remember where the volume was last set. I used to be an ink pen and masking tape kinda guy back when...

 

With the robot, there WERE some guys who loved it. I can see that. I can see a guy who is used to being able to keep track of settings and effects without being "stressed" being able to take it out before he knows if it works or not because he is good at staying on top of such things. You might be THAT guy.

 

I would look forward to your experiences if you get the chance. If you get the whole 2015 guitar with the nut, you might want to see about making the nut work or at least check it out to see how the nut binding the strings are working as it might make a lot of difference.

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We have our own sound person....

 

Like I stated earlier, I would be more than willing to try a 2015 Gibby.... I've had nothing but good luck with most of my Gibson guitars, especially the last five purchases since 2013.... All of them have been great..

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...Then one day, your playing and everything goes dark and quiet and before anyone starts to guess why, the phone rings. It's your daughter calling. 7,500 hundred poeple now know you're buying her a horse.

 

 

 

LMAO!!!! [laugh] [laugh]

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Actually I think Duane is seeing it from an overall production standpoint where technology is a tool that's little different from the "electronics" first used for public address systems and later by those odd electircal gitars.

 

The first use of a PA in the town where I now live was at the local rodeo. They brought in the PA equipment by train somewhere around 1920 (don't recall the exact year) and also the professional technicians required to make the thing work. I doubt there were more than a dozen such things anywhere at the time. And... folks, I'm sure, thought they were stupid when they'd gotten by for years with a handheld megaphone.

 

I think that if a tool works for you, there's no reason to toss it away or ignore its existence. If it doesn't work for you... whatever.

 

I know for sure that I quit hauling a lotta stuff because it was nice, but nothing that really made an iota or a difference to an audience. It was mostly my, "gee look at the neat stuff I have for the band."

 

<sigh>

 

m

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I been typing about mainly the SOME of the "features" of the 2015 models as if that is all there is to it. But in reality, there is still the rest of the guitar.

 

Except for the neck shape and the decal signature, all the "features" I see are easily changeable, and really not a big deal.

 

Seriously. Who hasn't bought a new guitar and changed tuners and nut? Or different pickups?

 

Tuners and a nut aren't that expensive. I personally would NEVER make a decision on a 2000 dollar + guitar based on tuners and nut. I'm gonna buy it or not based on things I CAN'T change on the guitar, like how the neck feels, how it sounds and plays, how it looks finish-wise, weight, etc.

 

From what I have seen, like I said, there are plenty of 2014 and 2013 ones to choose from as well. Some of the 2015 ones had colors and finishes so nice I might choose one over another based on that. I'd rather have a killer looking LP with that wierd looking silkscreen on the headstock than a so-so looking one with the "traditional" silkscreen. And there were some I thought were at that level.

 

One in particular I was playing had a real nice medium LP type weight to it and a good, snappy yet full "accoustic" sound to it that is what makes an LP a good LP. It was a real cool funky blueish. Not my color, but for some guys (one I know), I could see wanting that color. It was truly nice. Craftsmanship and finish were exceptional for any "year", and of corse, that's better than you need. Way better.

 

Most of the ones I plucked or held were up there. Of corse, being of fresher stock than the older ones means that the nicer 2013 and 14 likely sold, but for the most part, what was there to see and feel, most of the better ones seemed to be 2015. Of corse, without pawing every single one....

 

IF I was on the market for an LP, and IF I found one with a really good feeling neck, I could problably get past the fatter neck width. I would be more likely to find it more disreable on a 335, or an archtop rather than a full-on electric. I would mostly prefer a more standard width for an LP. But I wouldn't rule it out completely if it was an exceptional example. Most I am guessing won't go for it. But like I said, there are guys out there that don't balk at an OM for the neck size.

 

As for the (uglier) "Les Paul 100" silkscreen and the hologram? I say get over it. We might need to get a life if that is enough to change our minds. It still says "Gibson" and still has the open book headstock shape. Still a lot more attractice than a lot of headstocks that say some other names on them. We can't be THAT vain, can we? Not even a vintage L-5CES will make our hair grow back. It has a flowerpot inlay. Quad-triple-multiple binding. And real finish flaws if you can feel comfortable enough to wear your glasses.

 

But then there is the frets....hmm...

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I didn't try much string bending on the 2015s as I couldn't get past the neck shapes.

 

I came away so impressed by the new line up that I bought a used Martin acoustic which was the last thing on my mind when I went in to check out the new Gibson models.

 

 

 

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