SJ200 Fischman Ellipse Aura Battery Drain

[Penster]

I bought a 2009 SJ200 Standard recently and have been pretty pleased so far with the instrument. The action was great, 12's sound nice and smooth, and there's a real richness to the tone. If a little quiet (the infamous Gibson 'muffled' effect), overall it's sexy, I like it.

 

The pickup was part of the reason I bought it, but it's caused problems. First, the circuit board had a nasty habit of rattling against the guitar body as soon as I played louder - unplugged, this had nothing to do with the pickup, it was a fitting problem. So, after going to the guitar doctor and £50 later, it doesn't rattle anymore. Next problem is severe battery drain, EVEN WHEN I AM NOT PLUGGED IN. I stress, even when the jack plug is REMOVED from the guitar, the battery goes flat.

 

Has anyone else had this and is there a simple solution or do I have to return once again to the guitar doctor?

[kebob]

You hit on the one issue I don't care for regarding my J-200 -- extremely short battery life with the factory installed Fishman Aura pickup. It only gets about 30 hours use before needing another battery. That is very poor. I believe that is just the way it is with that particular pickup. I chalk it up to so many bells and whistles on the pickup, it drains the battery. That's one reason why I like simpler pickups -- equals longer battery life.

[Penster]

You hit on the one issue I don't care for regarding my J-200 -- extremely short battery life with the factory installed Fishman Aura pickup. It only gets about 30 hours use before needing another battery. That is very poor. I believe that is just the way it is with that particular pickup. I chalk it up to so many bells and whistles on the pickup, it drains the battery. That's one reason why I like simpler pickups -- equals longer battery life.

 

 

My problem is that the battery is draining without the jack plugged in. For example, you put a brand new battery in, play a couple of songs with the jack plugged in (great sound, fab), then you unplug and leave the guitar overnight. In the morning the battery is flat. Its draining power ithout beinf plugged in. Problem!

[kebob]

My problem is that the battery is draining without the jack plugged in. For example, you put a brand new battery in, play a couple of songs with the jack plugged in (great sound, fab), then you unplug and leave the guitar overnight. In the morning the battery is flat. Its draining power ithout beinf plugged in. Problem!

 

That is a strange issue. I'd give Fishman a call -- I think their customer service is very good, from what I've read. Best of luck...

[Richard-SJ200]

Hi All,

 

Also I own a 2014 SJ200 standard with fisherman eclipse aura system.

I have the same problem. Each time I plug in the Sj200 the battery indicator is red.

I had to perform yesterday, and inserted a fresh new duracell long life 9v battery the guitar lasted half an hour, and gave up during a song (very embarrassing for a $4000 guitar)

 

Does anybody know what the issue is? @Penster, was you problem resolved and if so how?

 

regards,

 

Richard

[capmaster]

Hello Penster, hello Richard, and welcome to the Gibson fora.

 

Sadly bad luck is the reason for you joining here. :(

 

@ Richard: Fishman specifies 33 hours battery life for the Aura Eclipse system which is not that much for an onboard battery in a guitar. Anyway, a battery fading after half an hour means there's a strange electronic fault in my opinion. Since the circuit obviously works flawlessly for a certain period, I think it's not a bad one, but it should be investigated by a techie guy.

 

@ Penster: I don't know what pickup system is built into your 2009 model, but my guess is a short circuit at the switching jack or its wiring.

 

Hope this helps. I cross my fingers for the both of you and your guitars!

[Richard-SJ200]

Thanks Capmaster,

 

Overall I'm very happy with the sound of the guitar unplugged, and when the aura system works it also sounds great on a PA. I get nice compliments on my sound.

Therefore I don't agree with the frustration on this forum on the system.

 

What is disappointing is the battery drain.

Based on the description of Penster we both have the same system, Fishman Aura Eclipse system and we have the same problem: battery drain.

 

Thanks for your interest and response.

 

regards,

 

Richard

[capmaster]

... I get nice compliments on my sound.

Therefore I don't agree with the frustration on this forum on the system.

...

Richard

Besides personal expectations and taste, there always will be one point making any transduced tone different from the radiated one. The bright attack sound is projected directly by the strings whereas the tonal spectrum comes from top and soundhole. The subtle difference in runtime and the very behaviour of the guitar body can't be reflected precisely by any transducer of whatever make.

 

From recording acoustic guitars I learned that the airy tone of a microphone recording comes from the attack noise appearing a tiny fraction of a second earlier than through piezos, referring to the tonal sound's timeline. Of course, the air path from guitar to mic will cause a delay which I correct through track editing. Recording both ways on separate tracks allows for deciding later what sound or blend works best for the song and translates better in the mix.

[Richard-SJ200]

Besides personal expectations and taste, there always will be one point making any transduced tone different from the radiated one. The bright attack sound is projected directly by the strings whereas the tonal spectrum comes from top and soundhole. The subtle difference in runtime and the very behaviour of the guitar body can't be reflected precisely by any transducer of whatever make.

 

From recording acoustic guitars I learned that the airy tone of a microphone recording comes from the attack noise appearing a tiny fraction of a second earlier than through piezos, referring to the tonal sound's timeline. Of course, the air path from guitar to mic will cause a delay which I correct through track editing. Recording both ways on separate tracks allows for deciding later what sound or blend works best for the song and translates better in the mix.

 

Hi Capmaster,

 

I Agree that there is a taste aspect involved. I think we can all conclude that the piezo transducer is not the ideal way to reflect the sound of an acoustic instrument.

But the piezo pickup is a pratical and common way to reinforce sound in a stage performance situation, and the aura system gives a nice "microphonish" blend to the brittle piezo sound.

In a studio situation I prefer to pickup the sound of the acoustic guitar with a microphone over piezo and aura sounds. I'm currently recording my acoustic guitar with a setup of MBHO cardoid small diaphram condensers in a x/y setup. which really works great.

 

regards,

 

Richard

[capmaster]

Hello Richard,

 

piezos are in fact the best way for sound reinforcement, and in my case the only one. I'm addicted to solidbodies featuring piezo bridges, and to me this is by far the most flexible way of playing guitar.

 

Regards,

 

capmaster

[modoc_333]

sounds like the wires are crossed in the jack. it's a stereo jack. when a mono cable is plugged in, it connects the circuit to turn the unit on by connecting it to the battery. if 2 of the wires are swapped on the jack lugs, then it will always be hot and your battery will die "33 hours" after putting it in.

 

Just a guess, but something to check

 

-Keith

[Richard-SJ200]

sounds like the wires are crossed in the jack. it's a stereo jack. when a mono cable is plugged in, it connects the circuit to turn the unit on by connecting it to the battery. if 2 of the wires are swapped on the jack lugs, then it will always be hot and your battery will die "33 hours" after putting it in.

 

Just a guess, but something to check

 

-Keith

 

 

 

Hi Keith,

 

Thanks for your reply and coming up with possible solutions.

To my knowledge the end pin jack is not a stereo jack socket. I've checked the manual: http://www.fishman.com/files/ellipse_aura_user_guide.PDF and there is mentioning a "regular" instrument cable. That is regularly a mono.

The blend between piezo and aura image is done using the blend slider in the onboard system not outside using a stereo plug.

 

I've brought my guitar to the store that sold it to, me they are working on the problem now. I'll keep you posted on their findings.

 

regards,

 

Richard

[modoc_333]

You misunderstood. It IS a stereo jack. Not for stereo output though. To complete the circuit with the batter and turn the system on. A mono jack has a tip and a sleeve lug. (Hot and ground if you will). A stereo jack has a tip, ring, and sleeve. In a pickup system like this, the positive is connected to the tip like always. The ground is connected to the sleeve like always. But the negative side of the batter is connected to the ring. Without a cable inserted, the negative side of the battery doesn't connect to ground so the system is off and the battery is not draining. When you plug a mono cable into a stereo jack, it shorts the ring and the sleeve causing a connection through the sleeve of the male mono plug that you just put in. This connects the negative side of the battery to ground, completing the circuit and turning the unit on. If wired incorrectly, then the negative side if the battery could always be connected to ground regardless of whether there is a cable inserted or not. It could be wired wrong, or just accidentally touched a ground such as the outer sleeve of the jack or preamp. Either way, it would leave the circuit permanently complete. This would drain the battery constantly, regardless of cable or use.

 

Keith

[fromnabulax]

I found the Fishman Ellipse Aura that came installed on my SJ200 to be horrible.

 

Some like it, some don't, I didn't.

 

I say didn't past tense because the cruddy thing was so poorly glued to the soundhole (who had THAT bright idea) that when trying to replace the thousandth dead battery in that horrible little black sack glued to the inside of the body by the heel (and THAT bright idea as well!) that my watch caught the edge if the mounting bracket and the whole unit came crashing down into the body of the guitar.

 

After finding the nearest Gibson authorized repair shop, some 70 miles away and learning that Gibson was not going to cover the repair of their own bad glue job, and figuring that the route for the strap jack was already in place, I bought a Baggs M1A, adapted it for the overly thick Gibson pickguard and have been a happy player ever since.

 

In every possible way the Baggs is completely superior to the Fishman system and the guitar sounds so much better without all the extra weight glued to the body at the soundhole. The Fishman system as you can see is laying to the right in this pic. The white on top of the unit is the dab of glue used to hold the thing in place, which it clearly did not.

 

[Dave F]

You misunderstood. It IS a stereo jack. Not for stereo output though. To complete the circuit with the batter and turn the system on. A mono jack has a tip and a sleeve lug. (Hot and ground if you will). A stereo jack has a tip, ring, and sleeve. In a pickup system like this, the positive is connected to the tip like always. The ground is connected to the sleeve like always. But the negative side of the batter is connected to the ring. Without a cable inserted, the negative side of the battery doesn't connect to ground so the system is off and the battery is not draining. When you plug a mono cable into a stereo jack, it shorts the ring and the sleeve causing a connection through the sleeve of the male mono plug that you just put in. This connects the negative side of the battery to ground, completing the circuit and turning the unit on. If wired incorrectly, then the negative side if the battery could always be connected to ground regardless of whether there is a cable inserted or not. It could be wired wrong, or just accidentally touched a ground such as the outer sleeve of the jack or preamp. Either way, it would leave the circuit permanently complete. This would drain the battery constantly, regardless of cable or use.

 

Keith

 

Thanks for this good info. I'll put it in my memory banks.

[Richard-SJ200]

I found the Fishman Ellipse Aura that came installed on my SJ200 to be horrible.

 

Some like it, some don't, I didn't.

 

I say didn't past tense because the cruddy thing was so poorly glued to the soundhole (who had THAT bright idea) that when trying to replace the thousandth dead battery in that horrible little black sack glued to the inside of the body by the heel (and THAT bright idea as well!) that my watch caught the edge if the mounting bracket and the whole unit came crashing down into the body of the guitar.

 

After finding the nearest Gibson authorized repair shop, some 70 miles away and learning that Gibson was not going to cover the repair of their own bad glue job, and figuring that the route for the strap jack was already in place, I bought a Baggs M1A, adapted it for the overly thick Gibson pickguard and have been a happy player ever since.

 

In every possible way the Baggs is completely superior to the Fishman system and the guitar sounds so much better without all the extra weight glued to the body at the soundhole. The Fishman system as you can see is laying to the right in this pic. The white on top of the unit is the dab of glue used to hold the thing in place, which it clearly did not.

 

 

Hi Fromnabulax,

 

Since I also need to change batteries every time I pick up the guitar. The same thing happened to me, the Aura system came loose altogether. The aura bracket was poorly glued, the glue was weaker than the magnets holding the Aura system in place. This was succesfully repaired by the guitar repair shop, credit to Daan from Guitarking Boekel The Netherlands.

What strikes me is your remark: " to replace the thousandth dead battery" which implies you sufferred from the same problem as described by Penster and myself.

Good to hear you are happy with the choice to abandon the fishman altogether and found a much better solution with the lr baggs m1a. Before looking into alternative pickups, I first want to pursue the fishman route and see if the issue can be resolved.

 

regards,

 

Richard

[Richard-SJ200]

You misunderstood. It IS a stereo jack. Not for stereo output though. To complete the circuit with the batter and turn the system on. A mono jack has a tip and a sleeve lug. (Hot and ground if you will). A stereo jack has a tip, ring, and sleeve. In a pickup system like this, the positive is connected to the tip like always. The ground is connected to the sleeve like always. But the negative side of the batter is connected to the ring. Without a cable inserted, the negative side of the battery doesn't connect to ground so the system is off and the battery is not draining. When you plug a mono cable into a stereo jack, it shorts the ring and the sleeve causing a connection through the sleeve of the male mono plug that you just put in. This connects the negative side of the battery to ground, completing the circuit and turning the unit on. If wired incorrectly, then the negative side if the battery could always be connected to ground regardless of whether there is a cable inserted or not. It could be wired wrong, or just accidentally touched a ground such as the outer sleeve of the jack or preamp. Either way, it would leave the circuit permanently complete. This would drain the battery constantly, regardless of cable or use.

 

Keith

 

 

 

Hi Keith,

 

Thanks for clearing that up. So a possible cause could be an internal wiring issue in the "female" internal stereo jack connector. Am I correct that the correct use of the system is using a regular mono jack, or should I use a stereo cable to wire my guitar?

 

regards,

 

Richard

[fromnabulax]

Good to hear you are happy with the choice to abandon the fishman altogether and found a much better solution with the lr baggs m1a. Before looking into alternative pickups, I first want to pursue the fishman route and see if the issue can be resolved.

 

regards,

 

Richard

 

Good luck with that Richard.

 

I had other issues with the basic limited functionality of the unit as well. Apparently the same system, though with a different set of limited 'images' is also used in some Martin acoustics, and several of their owners are just as frustrated as I was.

 

I have 2 Epiphones with the eSonic2 system at a fraction of the cost (EJ 200ce and DR500mce) that to my experience is light years better than the Fishman Ellipse Aura, both in terms of tone as well as functionality and ease of use.

 

I actually own and like several Fishman products, and I own and like several Gibson products, just not these.

 

My own SJ200 came without a manual specific to the Gibson licensed version of the Ellipse Aura. When I asked my retailer to contact Gibson for one, we were told there wasn't one availabe specific to the Gibson version.

 

I then went online to the Fishman site and found the manual they offer to Fishman customers. I learned that rather than the few so called 'images' being made availabe to Gibson customers that there were in fact dozens available along with a CD ROM to load even more to the unit.

 

I then went back to Gibson yet again asking for the CD ROM and the directions to load all these extra features and found that it would not be possible as the Gibson (and apparently Martin) licensed versions are limited and locked with no further upgrades possible.

 

Honestly, this all left me with a very bad feeling towards Gibson. My SJ200 is an expensive guitar and for what I spent I would have liked a fully functional unit, a manual, and a direct and satisfying response from customer service.

 

In my entire lifetime this was the one and only time I ever attempted to avail myself of the 24/7 guaranty and It sure didn't work out for me.

[modoc_333]

Hi Keith,

 

Thanks for clearing that up. So a possible cause could be an internal wiring issue in the "female" internal stereo jack connector. Am I correct that the correct use of the system is using a regular mono jack, or should I use a stereo cable to wire my guitar?

 

regards,

 

Richard

 

The "jack" is the "female" end. The "plug" is the "male" end. It IS a stereo female jack by design. Use a regular mono male cable plug. if you used a stereo cable plug then it wouldn't come on (if wired correctly).

 

-Keith

[Richard-SJ200]

Hi All,

 

To give you an update:

The problem of the fishman ellipse aura is investigate by the guitar dealer.

The unit is consuming way to much current from the battery, approximately 300 mA instead of 3 mA, this is clearly a malfunction in the system and the root cause of the battery drain.

The issue is now send to Gibson Support and the dealer is awaiting the response of Gibson.

 

regards,

 

Richard

 

 

[KelticBill]

Hi All,

 

To give you an update:

The problem of the fishman ellipse aura is investigate by the guitar dealer.

The unit is consuming way to much current from the battery, approximately 300 mA instead of 3 mA, this is clearly a malfunction in the system and the root cause of the battery drain.

The issue is now send to Gibson Support and the dealer is awaiting the response of Gibson.

 

regards,

 

Richard

 

Hi Richard,

I've read the full string and I would love to hear the outcome of the repair you had done.

 

I ask because I have had exactly the same experience, I couldn't get through a 3 hour gig on one battery. I took it back to the Gibson dealer and they sent the pickup back to Gibson who replaced the unit free of charge, even though it was past its warranty. It's now a bit better, I can get through a weekend (3 x 3 hour sets) but once (in Honolulu) after a great night it cut out completely dead in the middle of my last song ... which was into 10 hours of battery life....

 

Regards,

Bill

[Richard-SJ200]

Hi Richard,

I've read the full string and I would love to hear the outcome of the repair you had done.

 

I ask because I have had exactly the same experience, I couldn't get through a 3 hour gig on one battery. I took it back to the Gibson dealer and they sent the pickup back to Gibson who replaced the unit free of charge, even though it was past its warranty. It's now a bit better, I can get through a weekend (3 x 3 hour sets) but once (in Honolulu) after a great night it cut out completely dead in the middle of my last song ... which was into 10 hours of battery life....

 

Regards,

Bill

 

Hi Bill,

 

My guitar was repaired through my dealer guitarking, it was send to Gibson benelux and they fixed the problem.

I'm not sure if the system was repaired or if the system was swapped with a new AURA system.

Anyhow, I am able to play much longer, the same 9 volt battery is still working after roughly a year.

I only plug in at a concert (i've had 4 gigs) since then (at home I play unplugged).

Still very happy with the sound of the system, I get a lot of compliments on my sound by audience people and fellow musicians.

My Settings: I use the volume half way and roughly 1/5 blend of aura image 3, bass boost off, anti-feedback off, no phase invert

 

I wish you a lot of fun with your guitar, regards, Richard

 

 

 

 

[KelticBill]

Hi Bill,

 

My guitar was repaired through my dealer guitarking, it was send to Gibson benelux and they fixed the problem.

I'm not sure if the system was repaired or if the system was swapped with a new AURA system.

Anyhow, I am able to play much longer, the same 9 volt battery is still working after roughly a year.

I only plug in at a concert (i've had 4 gigs) since then (at home I play unplugged).

Still very happy with the sound of the system, I get a lot of compliments on my sound by audience people and fellow musicians.

My Settings: I use the volume half way and roughly 1/5 blend of aura image 3, bass boost off, anti-feedback off, no phase invert

 

I wish you a lot of fun with your guitar, regards, Richard

 

Thank you Richard... you confirmed there is hope! I will try your settings to see if that makes a difference, if not, I will take it for repair again.

I really appreciate your help.

 

Bill