houndman55 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 This is an honest question. While I'm no expert by any account I'd imagine most high status guitarist from say the 60's and 70's like Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page and Tommi Iommi never took any guitar lessons. Yet they became some of the most recognizable guitarists of all time. But in my own case I would never dream of playing by ear, not that I have anything against it but I can't do it. I'd say most upcoming guitarists are actively taking lessons, reading tabs etc. But it seems like most old school guitarist are self taught for the most part. So they question is, is this current generation of guitarists techincally inferior compared to any old geezer from the classic rock age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awel Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Yes. Â +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 It's human nature to use every available advantage, so I would imagine Hendrix, Clapton, Green and company would have used internet lesson, had they been available. As regards learning by ear, it is something that can be learned, but some people just excel at it. When I was at School, one of my mates could listen to most records a couple of times and play it perfectly. It used to p**s me off because it would take me hours to do the same thing. Â Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Hello! Â Players, - generations before - did not have the choice of Guitar Pro, not even tabulature. They didn`t have any musical editor software to slow down a track... Â They either learned from transcriptions (if available for that genre of music), or learned by ear. Â Transcriptions costed money. Most of them couldn't afford to go to music schools - all they could do is to listen to records and/or watch others play. Â We have been conditioned to become lazy with so many options given. Â Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody78 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Controversial subject here! Â It depends on many factors & you can't go by todays 'well known' players you hear on the radio or in the top 40 charts (as most people do) because generally most of it is more of a product to sell than actually involving great musicianship or creativity anymore. I don't mean it's all bad, but the best musicians are generally not that well known and I think this has generally always been the case for many decades now. Yes, there have been great players in every generation, but most have been lost to the wave of crummy music known as pop, urban and dance! Apparently people love simplicity that is on a grade 1 (if that) scale in this generation. Â Going back to your point about 60's & 70's music, even though I love Jimmy Page and many of the players from that generation, can you compare them to what came before on a level of musicianship & knowledge of their instrument? Technically no, but that doesn't make them any less great. Is Jimmy Page as good as Segovia technically? NO! Is Jimi Hendrix as knowledgeable as Django or Joe Pass? A resounding NO again, if you look at it from a level of theory & technical ability. This doesn't make Jimmy or Jimi any less relevant or as enjoyable to listen to though. Â Now looking at some of todays players who are gifted, such as UK jazz guitarist Phil Robson or even Omar Rodriguez Lopez from the Mars Volta, these guys are equally as intelligent in their fields as what came in the past I believe, so in this case I don't believe players are dumber these days. Also, check out all the gifted classical, jazz, folk, metal & progressive players who have emerged in recent years. Some incredible players around, but you just might not hear of them as much as you might have if they were around when the general public listened to intelligent music! Â Anyway, that's my view and like any persons opinion it may be totally wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 ... Yes, there have been great players in every generation, but most have been lost to the wave of crummy music known as pop, urban and dance! Apparently people love simplicity that is on a grade 1 (if that) scale in this generation. ... Some incredible players around, but you just might not hear of them as much as you might have if they were around when the general public listened to intelligent music! Â Anyway, that's my view and like any persons opinion it may be totally wrong The most incredible players make any intelligent music sound simple. In my opinion, virtuosity is all about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I don't think players are more lazy... well no lazier than people in general. Â Sure there are infinitely more options in ways to learn these days.. But if you play by ear (which I do) or you read music and do all the technical stuff.. You still have to learn and practice.. Â The one thing you hear about all these great players is that they played all the time, like in an obsessive way.. That's how they got good. That doesn't change. Â And then after that its what you do with those skills (what ever technical level you are at) and the creativity you use which I think really counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I think players from the past are more familiar with electrics in general, in the past strobe tuners and the such didn't exist. As far as playing I don't think people starting out realize what a blessing is it to have access to various learning techniques. Back in the day while I took lessons for years, it was pretty much put a record on and lift the riff. There's no substitute for practice and musical interaction with others, which imho is the real learning process. I don't see any lack of talent though, I seen many bands from New Orleans and NYC this past year and there is very good talent out here. To me in fact it almost seems suppressed and passed off as unpopular music. There seems to some kind of conflict in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 place needle on record listen to record find first chord pick up needle  place needle on record listen again find second chord pick up needle  rinse and repeat...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 gotten dumber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 guitarist from say the 60's and 70's like Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page and Tommi Iommi never took any guitar lessons. Yet they became some of the most recognizable guitarists of all time.  These players and others like them were the pioneers of electric guitars and the fact that they were self thought is what enabled them to develop their own unique style. Some musicians are born with a great sense of tonality ( having a great ear ), some have to develop it… Those who don't, have to rely on reading from charts or use tabs or take a long time to figure out a song they want to learn… If you are blessed to have been born with that natural ability you are very lucky. If not you can develop it with time, practice and patients.. I remember it used to seem impossible to figure songs out. That was before I learned scales, modes and positions. Now what used to take me forever comes rather quickly realizing that the notes I'm looking for, will most likely all be within the scale of the song… Sounds simple but if you don't know that it's not. Sorry for straying from the original thought of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awel Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 The most incredible players make any intelligent music sound simple. In my opinion, virtuosity is all about that. Â Oh yeah I like that, well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReGuitar Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Hello!  Players, - generations before - did not have the choice of Guitar Pro, not even tabulature. They didn`t have any musical editor software to slow down a track...  They either learned from transcriptions (if available for that genre of music), or learned by ear.  Transcriptions costed money. Most of them couldn't afford to go to music schools - all they could do is to listen to records and/or watch others play.  We have been conditioned to become lazy with so many options given.  Cheers... Bence  + 1.  Plus, professionals do whatever market demands. Music market has changed 'a little bit' since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 ... Plus, professionals do whatever market demands. Music market has changed 'a little bit' since then. Â Good point! Â Those musicians had to work really hard to get into the spotlight... There were no 50.000 bands playing the same stuff. You had to be good, and knock on many doors to get a contract. Â Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Errr...what was the question again...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Errr...what was the question again...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 When I was at School, one of my mates could listen to most records a couple of times and play it perfectly. It used to p**s me off because it would take me hours to do the same thing.  Ian  I have read that Jeff Beck could do that from very early in his playing career. I have known people who could do it. I really struggle with it but IMO it is the way to go even if you "supplement" with other sources / methods.  I note that Justin Sandercoe repeatedly makes the point in all his books and on his website to listen and "learn to transcribe". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 People play for different reasons, and they learn in different ways. The better question might be: Have people gotten dumber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Yes. Â What was the question, by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Yes. Â What was the question, by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I have a different view of this. IMO, the most popular guitarists that we mention from the past are actually pioneers in the modern music genres. Music like they made didn't exist yet; how could they learn it? Â They were innovators forging new sounds rather than trying to learn what someone else did note for note, they took the base of what came before, expanded, embellished and otherwise made something new and fresh from it. Â That is much different than somebody today trying to mimic the greats note for note, tone for tone. Interesting. It just occurred to me that 'note' and 'tone' have the same letters. Â Anyway, they weren't measured by their ability to play something that somebody else created. They were lauded for their own creations. Â That's part one. Â Part two is the entire group of studio musicians that study and practice their asses off for years in order to make a living behind the scenes making somebody else sound good. This group could hardly be considered lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I think most of the great '70s rock n rollers probably transcribed blues guys doing what cookieman suggested. Clapton, Page, Townsend, Allman, et.al. were all listening to blues guys, and country guys. It's be interesting to look at their record collections from that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I think most of the great '70s rock n rollers probably transcribed blues guys doing what cookieman suggested. Clapton, Page, Townsend, Allman, et.al. were all listening to blues guys, and country guys. It's be interesting to look at their record collections from that time. Â I agree ... but they built on what they learned. They didn't just try to mimic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Yeah, actually, they did, and still do to this day. You look at the body of work from guys like Clapton, Beck, Pagey and other greats and see how many covers they did. Willie Dixon, Robert Johnson, the three King's, Freddy, Albert and BB, and many others too numerous to mention. We simply did as they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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