PAULinCT Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Hi all, I just signed up because my father owns this guitar and we are looking to confirm what it is, and the value. He bought this brand new back in 1965 from a legit guitar shop. Of course it's been heavily used since he was a teenager, so it's not perfect. The pictures are rough to look at, because it's been sitting on a guitar stand for decades. So it's coated in dust and needs a good cleaning. I'll have him clean it up, but wanted a preliminary value/identification if possible. We believe it to be a 1965 Gibson Les Paul Sunburst '59 Reissue. Serial Number on back of head stock is: 678431 According to an online Gibson Les Paul serial number database, the range of 64240-70500 places this guitar at a date of 1964. There is no major damage, but there is of course wear and tear from years of use. Here are some (poor) pictures. I'll have it cleaned up and add some better pictures ASAP. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 The guitar pictured dates to around 1970. There were no Les Pauls of this type built from about 1961 to about 1968, and this model ("Standard" with P-90's) was offered from about '68 through '70. The logo embossed pickups were introduced sometime in 1970, and discontinued (used up) by early '72. A headstock "volute" was added to strengthen the headstock/neck transition area also sometime in 1970. The guitar pictured does not have this feature. The logo without the dot over the "i" is a late 60's feature, and the double-ring tuner buttons is a 70's feature. This all leads me to believe this is a "transition" model of late 1970. The serial number is useless for any precise dating, but if you open up the control plate, the potentiometers will have a date code on them. Your looking for a seven-digit number that will most likely start with "137". The next two numbers are the year the pots were made, and the last two are the week of that year. This will tell you when the pots were made. There also seems to be some modifications to the guitar. The tremolo bridge/tailpiece would not have been original, and possible was a "wrap-around" from the factory. There looks to be an out of place screw near the rear pickup, and I'm also seeing a strange shadow line frame around that pickup. The value of an "original" guitar, and the value of a "modified" guitar can vary greatly, many times up to 50%. The statements, observations, and questions above would have to be verified/answered before any real, or accurate, discussion can take place about value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Hello Paul, welcome to the forum. Thanks for posting pictures of your Les Paul. As Larry stated, this body style wasn't being produced in 1964. I'd lean towards his assessment of around 1970 as well. Post the potentiometer code and we'll be able to get a better idea of the exact year. Ask your dad if he ever had to have the headstock repaired as a result of the break and if he has the original bridge. I'd be interested in buying it if you would like to sell. You can contact me through my website. Link in signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULinCT Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 The guitar pictured dates to around 1970. There were no Les Pauls of this type built from about 1961 to about 1968, and this model ("Standard" with P-90's) was offered from about '68 through '70. The logo embossed pickups were introduced sometime in 1970, and discontinued (used up) by early '72. A headstock "volute" was added to strengthen the headstock/neck transition area also sometime in 1970. The guitar pictured does not have this feature. The logo without the dot over the "i" is a late 60's feature, and the double-ring tuner buttons is a 70's feature. This all leads me to believe this is a "transition" model of late 1970. The serial number is useless for any precise dating, but if you open up the control plate, the potentiometers will have a date code on them. Your looking for a seven-digit number that will most likely start with "137". The next two numbers are the year the pots were made, and the last two are the week of that year. This will tell you when the pots were made. There also seems to be some modifications to the guitar. The tremolo bridge/tailpiece would not have been original, and possible was a "wrap-around" from the factory. There looks to be an out of place screw near the rear pickup, and I'm also seeing a strange shadow line frame around that pickup. The value of an "original" guitar, and the value of a "modified" guitar can vary greatly, many times up to 50%. The statements, observations, and questions above would have to be verified/answered before any real, or accurate, discussion can take place about value. The fine-tuner was placed on the original hardware, however he does have the original tailpiece which can be put back on. The only modifications are the 3 screwholes by the pickup and the bottom of the guitar from a mount for a hex pickup synthesizer kit that was put on. That was removed, but unfortunately the holes still remain. He's not sure of the shadow you're referring to on the pickup, but he did say there was never any trim on those pickups. He said he'll get the POT number for you now. Thanks for the detailed response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULinCT Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 Hello Paul, welcome to the forum. Thanks for posting pictures of your Les Paul. As Larry stated, this body style wasn't being produced in 1964. I'd lean towards his assessment of around 1970 as well. Post the potentiometer code and we'll be able to get a better idea of the exact year. Ask your dad if he ever had to have the headstock repaired as a result of the break and if he has the original bridge. I'd be interested in buying it if you would like to sell. You can contact me through my website. Link in signature. Hi there, thanks for the welcome! With Larry's help, this does look to be 1971. We're working on getting the POT number now. As for the tailpiece, as I mentioned to Larry he does have the original as well. Nothing on the guitar (headstock or tailpiece) was not repaired or damaged in any way. The tailpiece and pickup currently on the guitar are not the originals, but he does have those as well. He can confirm that it has not been routed out, and that is very important from what I can tell. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULinCT Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 POT # is: 1377142 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 POT # is: 1377142 42nd week of 1971. That week of potentiometer mfg would probably push the assembly date into early '72. Early 1972 is VERY late for some of the late-60's features such as the lack of headstock "volute". Definitely a "transition" model, with features from both sides of the decade change. Now clean that baby up and post some new pics AND soundbites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULinCT Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 42nd week of 1971. That week of potentiometer mfg would probably push the assembly date into early '72. Early 1972 is VERY late for some of the late-60's features such as the lack of headstock "volute". Definitely a "transition" model, with features from both sides of the decade change. Now clean that baby up and post some new pics AND soundbites. Thank you for the confirmation! That is interesting to hear. I'll have him clean it up nicely. Any opinion on what should be used to clean the dust/grime off of it? I wouldn't want to use anything that would possibly damage the finish? Also, in the condition it's in, if cleaned up, do you have any radical estimation of value? Just a ball-park for starters? I'll see if he can snap a soundbite for you. For now, here's a video from a former Doors cover band he was in 2 years ago. The band has since dismantled but he may be starting back up in the classic-rock scene again. He's been an avid guitar player his entire life, and in/out of bands since I can remember: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Hello! This is a 1972 Gibson Les Paul Standard 54 Reissue. "Gibson" embossed P-90s were unique to 1972 model year. The 54 Reissue came with wrap-around tailpiece, and did not have a volute. It was built to 1954 specs. One-piece body and neck, small headstock, thin binding. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Thank you for the confirmation! That is interesting to hear. I'll have him clean it up nicely. Any opinion on what should be used to clean the dust/grime off of it? I wouldn't want to use anything that would possibly damage the finish? Also, in the condition it's in, if cleaned up, do you have any radical estimation of value? Just a ball-park for starters? ... Hello again! Use naptha (lighter fluid) on such a nasty grime. Lightly damp a pure (undyed), 100% cotton rag (diapers) with naphta. Pull the grime towards the edges of the body and pick it up with the rag. Polishing with breath moist and diapers is adviseable on vintage nitro finishes. If there is any lacquer checking, don't attempt to use any kind of cleaner or polish on the instrument! Otherwise, Gibson Vintage Restoration kit, or Virtuoso Cleaner and Polish are fine too. As for price: in excellent condition it would be around 5000 USD, however I've found one for sale at 8500 and 12500 USD. The sunburst finish is rare, most were Goldtops. Best wishes... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Hello again! Use naptha (lighter fluid) on such a nasty grime. Lightly damp a pure (undyed), 100% cotton rag (diapers) with naphta. Pull the grime towards the edges of the body and pick it up with the rag. Polishing with breath moist and diapers is adviseable on vintage nitro finishes. If there is any lacquer checking, don't attempt to use any kind of cleaner or polish on the instrument! Otherwise, Gibson Vintage Restoration kit, or Virtuoso Cleaner and Polish are fine too. As for price: in excellent condition it would be around 5000 USD, however I've found one for sale at 8500 and 12500 USD. The sunburst finish is rare, most were Goldtops. Best wishes... Bence Bence, great info here. I agree with your assessment that it is indeed a 1972 '54 Reissue Les Paul. I would also add that for best results, dust the guitar first with a very soft dry brush. Then wipe the whole thing down with a dry cloth. If you use any liquid before getting the loose dust and dirt off the guitar then the liquid will lock the dirt to the surface of the finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 ... I would also add that for best results, dust the guitar first with a very soft dry brush. Then wipe the whole thing down with a dry cloth. If you use any liquid before getting the loose dust and dirt off the guitar then the liquid will lock the dirt to the surface of the finish... Hello! Indeed! I thought it was evident, that`s why I didn`t write it. But yes, the loose dirt needs to be brushed of. Horsefur brush is probably the least abrasive. Best wishes... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hello! Indeed! I thought it was evident, that`s why I didn`t write it. But yes, the loose dirt needs to be brushed of. Horsefur brush is probably the least abrasive. Best wishes... Bence Yes, probably evident :). I thought I might add it anyway, just in case! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Good that You did! Best wishes... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Nice looking Les Paul. I could see me cleaning and polishing and restoring that sucker into a real gem of a guitar....if it were mine! That's what I do, and am good at it....jes' sayin'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Hayden Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Instrument ID and information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULinCT Posted December 26, 2014 Author Share Posted December 26, 2014 First of all, Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays/New Year to everyone. Sorry for the delay in reply - holiday season is hectic! Thanks to everyone for the replies, especially Bence for the very detailed and informative reply. I purchased my father a Vintage Gibson Restoration Kit for Christmas. Hopefully, this Sunday I'll stop over the house to help clean/restore the guitar. After that's done, I'll snap some pictures and upload for you guys to see! Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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