Fullmental Alpinist Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 This is a true story although it mirrors that D-35 story a lot. However, this happened two weeks ago before I read about the D-35 found under a bed. If you're offended by Martin talk please don't read this. I posted here because I'm not a member of UMGF or AGF and because you guys know your stuff. Anyway, a woman I work with found out that I played guitar and asked me for help. She says she inherited her grandmother's guitar and needs to sell it. She says it's a 1970-72 Martin probably a dreadnaught (I showed her pictures to help her: she knows nothing about guitars) with a blonde top that is still blonde and hasn't yellowed. The original hang tag with price states it sold for $265. She also said that the leather strap had been left in the case and as a result there is a spot on the guitar. (This makes me believe her story. A nonguitar personwouldn't know that.) She says the case is black (not the usual blue plastic Martin case). She claims it was only played three or four times by her grandmother, who then decided she didn't have the knack so she stored it. My co-worker inherited it several years ago and has had it in storage. She says she took it to a guitar store several years ago because she noticed a string was loose. According to her the guy in the shop offered her $5k on the spot. (I immediately counter-offered $175 sight unseen but she rejected that.) It's way out of my price range but I told her to bring it to work so I can see it. So it's supposed to show up in a week or so. A couple of questions: In the early 1970s what Martin would have sold for $265? (I'm guessing a D-18.) Did they have lower price off-brand back then? Did Martin escape the 1970s ding on quality like some say Norlin-era Gibsons have? Would a 1970-71 nearly new Martin really have appreciated so much that a store owner would have offered $5k several years ago? Thanks for reading this and for any suggestions as to what this guitar might be so I can help her. FMA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The price tag on a Martin D-18 in 1970 would have been $300 so what is on the hang tag would have been a heck of a good price but certainly in the ball park. The Sigma line was introduced in 1970 so that is a possibility although I do no have a clue what they sold for. Why anyone, particualry somebody working in a guitar shop though, would offer 5K for even a 1970-1972 Martin D-18 is beyond my ability to grasp. You are looking at a guitar which can be fairly easily found in nice condition for less than $2K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Guessing a value is tough.. guessing the model then the value cant happen with out somesort of pictures.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Guessing a value is tough.. guessing the model then the value cant happen with out somesort of pictures.. Exactly. Pure speculation right now. Even a mediocre photo should at least tell us what the guitar is. Until then......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 We definitely need pics!!! btw: the model and serial #s should be on a label in the sound hole. you knew that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 btw: the model and serial #s should be on a label in the sound hole. you knew that right? I'm not so sure about that. Serial number and model normally stamped on neck block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 SN and pictures would help a lot. Martin stopped using BRW guitars in 1969 -- if it was 69 or earlier, then 5K would be a reasonable (a bit high in today's market) for a D-28 or D-35. Those guitars with EIRW from the 1970 are in the 2K range. Martin was making the D-45 and (I think) the D-41 in the early 70s -- they would bring more, but not that much more. If it was a pre 1970 BWR D-45 or D-41 (there were a few), that is a small market but they can go for a LOT more. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'm not so sure about that. Serial number and model normally stamped on neck block. my bud has a D28 12 string that he got in 74, there is a label in his sound hole. I guess that's what I was basing this on.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 my bud has a D28 12 string that he got in 74, there is a label in his sound hole. I guess that's what I was basing this on.?? I'm guessing the number/model are also stamped on the neckblock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 prolly.. I'll have to check if I think of it next time I'm over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Martin stopped using BRW guitars in 1969 -- if it was 69 or earlier, then 5K would be a reasonable (a bit high in today's market) for a D-28 or D-35. This was my first thought. If it's actually a '69 that was sold in '70 or '71, then it would be Brazilian RW. As for build quality in the '70s, most consider this era to be a bit sub-par for Martin, primarily because of heavier construction, such as the use of rosewood bridge plates. Imho, ignore conventional wisdoms & assess each piece first hand. In the late '70s, I purchased a terrific sounding 00-18, built in 1970. The body was light as a feather, the neck was heavy, and the bridge plate was rosewood. Regardless of generalizations, the tone was superb. Played it until 2001, at which point it needed a neck reset, whereby a mutually agreeable trade developed for a Martin custom dread (still with me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Thanks for your replies, guys. I knew you would help. One truly frustrating thing about this is that she had it up here just down the street from me all summer but she didn't know I played guitar. I remembered something else she said about why the guitar store guy offered her so much money for it: According to her he said it was because "it had a one-piece stem." I asked her what a stem was and she pointed to the neck on a guitar saying that's the stem. I'm wondering if she got it wrong and the guitar store guy meant it was a one-piece back not a three piece like a D-35. Or did Martin make three-piece necks on some guitars? FMA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hm. The one-piece stem thing doesn't make much sense. I sure am interested, though. Hope we find out soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hm. The one-piece stem thing doesn't make much sense. I sure am interested, though. Hope we find out soon! ?? Neck of the guitar could be called a stem from a Non player or non guitar person.. trust me on that one.. I had asked a few questions to sellers on ebay about getting pictures of other areas of the guitars they were selling.. I had asked about a back of neck picture.. they had no clue what I was talking about.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 ?? Neck of the guitar could be called a stem from a Non player or non guitar person.. trust me on that one.. I had asked a few questions to sellers on ebay about getting pictures of other areas of the guitars they were selling.. I had asked about a back of neck picture.. they had no clue what I was talking about.. Sure, but why would something about the "stem" double the price? If it's a D-28, they do have a nice little volute on the back of the neck. But that's a standard feature... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Sure, but why would something about the "stem" double the price? If it's a D-28, they do have a nice little volute on the back of the neck. But that's a standard feature... you cant double the price or even put a price on anything without a visual.. besides .. all Martins or 99 % had mohagany necks. at least all mine do.. only ones I know of that are worth some merit are the Doves, J200s maybe very early J45s and Sjs but doubtful in this case.. .. with 3 piece maples. the thread starter is asking us to guess.. with 100 makers out there back in the day.. you cannot determine make, model, value with out a picture of sorts.. for now its a guitar, worth a dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 you cant double the price or even put a price on anything without a visual.. besides .. all Martins or 99 % had mohagany necks. at least all mine do.. only ones I know of that are worth some merit are the Doves, J200s maybe very early J45s and Sjs but doubtful in this case.. .. with 3 piece maples. the thread starter is asking us to guess.. with 100 makers out there back in the day.. you cannot determine make, model, value with out a picture of sorts.. for now its a guitar, worth a dollar. No, I was talking about how OP reported that the lady had said the reason a shop offered her $5k was because of the "one-piece stem." Anyway, we'll just have to wait and find out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 No, I was talking about how OP reported that the lady had said the reason a shop offered her $5k was because of the "one-piece stem." Anyway, we'll just have to wait and find out! your guess is as good as mine.. thats the type of person you get guitars from.. they have no clue.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Again, thanks guys for your input. I hope she brings it to work so I can see what it is or at least gives me the serial number. I think tpbiii and bobouz have offered the most plausible guess: that it's a BR guitar that didn't sell until 1970-1972. That's the only reason she would have been offered that much for it.... We'll see (maybe). But, then again, it's not like it's a Gibson.... FMA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 If its something your thinking of aquiring.. Hope it all works in your favor.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemac Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think Elizabeth Cotten called the neck a stem, too. But she played em upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 If its something your thinking of aquiring.. Hope it all works in your favor.. Why thank you very much, slimt. Thank you. It couldn't possibly come at a worse time for an acquisition for me. Still, I've got to wonder about the "serendipity" of finding out about it. Que sera, sera. FMA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Well, my co-worker showed up with the guitar her family has had in storage for years. Here's a slide show: http://vid1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag24/m73251/1971%20D-18_zpsyrnfqisv.mp4 It's a 1971 Martin D-18. Original owner bought it new that same year, played it a few times, then stuck it under the bed. Unfortunately, she left the leather/fabric strap in the case with the guitar as you'll see from the picture. It's been played a few times over the years but has a remarkable lack of pick scratches but does have a ding here or there (like it was handled by a few clumsy nonplayers). It's greasy and could use a good cleaning with Virtuoso. I couldn't find any cracks, excepting what appears to be a lacquer crack running from the top inner edge of the pickguard to the base of the treble-side fretboard. It does need to be hydrated. As expected because of its age it seems to need a neck reset and the pickguard is pulling loose. There's a strange thumb smudge on the backside of the neck at about the third fret. Haven't a clue how that happened: the fretboard and frets look brand new so I doesn't seem to have happened through too much playing. It's like someone grabbed it when the lacquer was soft. The owner is attached to the guitar and unfortunately someone at a music shop that went out of business several years ago offered her $5k on the spot for it. Should have take it. I've directed her to take it in to Gryphon Stringed Instruments in Palo Alto (somewhat near her) and ask Frank Ford for his estimate of the true value and especially so he can help her see the need to hydrate it before it starts to crack. So, am I right in guessing it would sell for about $2200 if the neck reset were already done, the pickguard was glued back down, and it was cleaned up? I figure that would cost maybe $700. I only got to play it briefly, but I was impressed. The articulation was great, it was quite loud and squirmed like a puppy with very little input from me, and the sustain was unbelievable. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to get it. Thanks for everyone's input. FMA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Cool.. I think 12 to 15 would be about right... it looks like it will require abit of TLC.. there is a 71 in the City here.. pretty clean.. asking price is 17 cdn.. I think thats a fair price.. your talking about a thumb smudge.. some people carry more stronger acids in there bodies.. that will cause that problem.... as for the guard.. well thats the 70s shrinkage.. Neat looking though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Ah ha, so now we know!! Yeah, with the strap mark on back and all the work it needs done, it is not worth a lot monetarily. Bet it's a really fantastic guitar, though! I can't imagine why someone would have offered $5k unless they somehow thought it was a Brazilian rosewood D-21 or something... This makes me want to make sure never to sell my 2011 D-18... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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