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retrorod

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Hey gang, this is available locally to me...

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3f4606b6df

 

It is consigned for sale by a local music store. I have played it. It is "just okay" in the tone department. Nice low (almost too low) action. Has had fingerboard/fretwork done. Huge amount of lacquer-checking and to my opinion, possibly some top refinishing around the soundhole.

 

A major distraction for me is the (big-arse) compensated bone saddle in lieu of the original adj or a proper fill-in with skinny saddle. It looks to me like a re-placed bridge?? ...at the least, the original patina is gone from it.....skinny neck is also a turn-off. As well, the back of the neck(not-pictured) has some major finish damage...

 

I don't believe it to be the original case as advertised either.

 

Just wondering what some others' take on it??

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Bridge could come closer to the mark for looking like a Gibson style bridge. Some bizarre compensations going on in that saddle, though it looks like someone went through the trouble to try to get it to intonate correctly. From the camera angle, it looks like that action at the 12th fret is a bit much already.. at least 120 thousandths. Love the lacquer checking on the headstock. Doesn't sound like you're too interested, though. Unusual mark on the back at the lower bout, treb side; a peek at the cross brace there might reveal an impact, or is it just a scratch? Good for you, what you're hearing is not doing anything for you, as it sounds like you're not looking for something with that neck profile.

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Bridge doesn't look original to me, independent of the saddle. A lot of 68's have a screw-on pickguard, so it's not clear if it is properly identified as to year.

 

Gibsons in the period are hit an miss: some good, some average, some blah.

 

The narrow neck is not for everyone, although interestingly, I have been playing my two Gibsons with the most extreme necks (one a Luthier's Choice, the other a narrow nut like this J-50) in rotation every night. I play one for a half hour, then switch to the other. Takes about 5-10 minutes to adapt when making the switch, primarily with fingering problems--damping strings with the narrow-nut guitar. The wide neck is a stretch for thumb-over bass notes, the narrow neck makes finger placement critical. Picking is almost identical, since they have pretty much the same spacing at the bridge.

 

I'd say this J-50 is probably not a particularly good deal, especially since its tone doesn't knock your socks off. However, make sure it has decent strings on it when making he evaluation, as they can make a huge difference.

 

For reference, both of the guitars I am playing now are slope J's with Sunbeams on them, strings changed on the same day. Listening to them, you wouldn't really know they are very similar guitars, as they are so different from each other tonally.

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Thanks guys! You both echo my sentiments and thoughts on this one. I can't really justify buying it. I, however, know of the party wanting to sell and could negotiate a better price out of the store. I will check it out again with some Sunbeams... [smile]....I want to check the serial # again. It is very hard to see(faint), unless its in the right light.

 

Does that saddle look like fossilized bone or ivory? It IS a piece 'o' work.....but somehow 'distracting' [scared]...

 

The guitar plays fast and is a good strummer (chugga-chugga) for Gibson rhythm!

 

Also, the guitar shows in better condition in the pics than real life.

 

Rod

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it seems like one of those, fair price if you love it, not worth bothering with if you're not blown away sort of deals. Are those silk and steels on it or is it just a lighting issue in the photo? The intonation in the saddle seems to be moving the breaking edge a long way back from where the original saddle would have put it which seems odd.

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it seems like one of those, fair price if you love it, not worth bothering with if you're not blown away sort of deals. Are those silk and steels on it or is it just a lighting issue in the photo? The intonation in the saddle seems to be moving the breaking edge a long way back from where the original saddle would have put it which seems odd.

 

They are not silk and steels....reg. phos/bronze. A guage lighter than I would prefer, however.

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'68 also featured the gibson logo on a thick guard, so that one could be a replacement or its just an older j50 (pre 65). Bridge looks replaced, never seen a saddle like that, maybe it sounds ok? I think 62 was the year they added the additional rosette rings, so if the guard is original you're looking at between 62-65.

 

Not a terrible price- if you negotiate and end up into it for around $1800 after replacing the bridge I'd say you're doing ok. That is, if you like it and get used to the neck. It's skinny but I got used to mine through consistently playing it exclusively. If you're adding it to a collection of wider necks it might not be ideal- I now have trouble with wider necks after playing my skinny one for so long!

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Does that saddle look like fossilized bone or ivory? It IS a piece 'o' work.....but somehow 'distracting' [scared]...

 

 

Yeah, the striped pattern of the fat almost cubistic saddle indicates ivory, which btw can be a very fine sounding saddle material.

 

The bridge itself is obviously a replacement, and though rather elegant, it seems out of place on an old Gibson.

 

However - as others have stated - I don't think a new more correct bridge w. ordinary saddle would improve the sound enough to justify the gamble.

 

Had the old J-50 revealed extraordinary and seducing powers at this stage, it could have been a serious tempter - but as I see it, you chose right. .

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'68 guitars are tough to get a line on. Belly up and belly down bridges, large pointy pickguards (some with the Gibson logo - mostly the reddish looking ones it seems) or teardrop pickguards (both black and tortoise), while the square shoulder instruments start showing up late in the year and so on. There may be a rhyme or reason to all the variations but I have not figured it out.

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'68 guitars are tough to get a line on. Belly up and belly down bridges, large pointy pickguards (some with the Gibson logo - mostly the reddish looking ones it seems) or teardrop pickguards (both black and tortoise), while the square shoulder instruments start showing up late in the year and so on. There may be a rhyme or reason to all the variations but I have not figured it out.

 

Don't forget the screwed pick-guards.

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Don't forget the screwed pick-guards.

 

 

I have seen '67 and '68 HBs with screwed on pickguards but have never run across a similar vintage J-50 with one. I know that site everybody uses also says they came with screwed on white pickguards which I have never seen on a J-50 - only on those black J-45s (don't recall if they were screwed down though). Then again, I really only mess around with these guitars should one pop up at a local shop or a friend buys one. I do believe though the '68 went back to the 1 11/16" nut.

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I have seen '67 and '68 HBs with screwed on pickguards but have never run across a similar vintage J-50 with one. I know that site everybody uses also says they came with screwed on white pickguards which I have never seen on a J-50 - only on those black J-45s (don't recall if they were screwed down though). Then again, I really only mess around with these guitars should one pop up at a local shop or a friend buys one. I do believe though the '68 went back to the 1 11/16" nut.

 

You are right - not the slopes really. I was thinking Birds, Southern J's, Doves and some of the cheaper small-bodies. .

 

And, yes - '68 was the year of the 11/16 return.

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Thanks for all of the participation! I promise to investigate this guitar further in the upcoming week and report back. I want to ascertain the serial #, as well as the bridge and pickguard.

 

My thought on the bridge is mainly....it does not look original AND 'if not' original, then WHY the 'big-arse' saddle that appears to be filling an adjustable-saddle 'void'??? Why not a skinny saddle? Riddle me this!

 

I suspect that the pickguard has been replaced also, as well as the frets.

 

 

 

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Thanks for all of the participation! I promise to investigate this guitar further in the upcoming week and report back. I want to ascertain the serial #, as well as the bridge and pickguard.

 

My thought on the bridge is mainly....it does not look original AND 'if not' original, then WHY the 'big-arse' saddle that appears to be filling an adjustable-saddle 'void'??? Why not a skinny saddle? Riddle me this!

 

I suspect that the pickguard has been replaced also, as well as the frets.

 

Rod, the pickguard is the correct shape, for sure, and looks like the right material for the mid-60's.

 

Here's a picture of an honest-to-God cross-my-heart-and-hope-to-die 1968 Gibson factory belly-down adjustable bridge, installed on my old J-45 by the Gibson repair shop in Kalamazoo in July or August of 1968.

 

Note the extra holes outside the pin holes for the small bolts, which would have been covered by pearloid dots.

 

Even though the rosewood saddle in this one has been modded with a bone insert, you can see the size and proportions of the original. The bridge on the guitar you are looking at has no bolts or pearloid dots, and I don't think the proportions are right.

 

I'd really like to see the serial number on the J-50. It should have been stamped on the back of the headstock in 1968.

 

I know you said it was a "skinny neck", but did you measure the nut width?

 

boneadjustablesaddle.jpg

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Here's a picture of an honest-to-God cross-my-heart-and-hope-to-die 1968 Gibson factory belly-down adjustable bridge, installed on my old J-45 by the Gibson repair shop in Kalamazoo in July or August of 1968.

 

 

He, , , I really like the fact that you kept the rests of the disastrous J-45 fix-up from your youth (can't remember why on earth it was sent in).

 

Guess the traumatic effect was double up considering the cost of the job - and that the old parts are strong, almost symbolic examples of ambivalence in your life's scrapbook. .

 

A wise move to have pressed 'rewind' in time.

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I forgot to ask: what's with the pearl dot on the board at the 17th fret? Was that common in this period? I've seen it from time to time, but not that often.

 

Good eye on the dot, Nick!

 

It apparently turned up in the early 70's and part of the Norlin invasion....

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item35e34963fa

 

Note the bridge/saddle on this one also....no pearl dot covered screws!

 

I agree that the pickguard is the correct shape, however it is not the thick guard that was common on mid to late 60's J50's.

 

Like Zombywoof says...."lots of strangeness" !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Good eye on the dot, Nick!

 

It apparently turned up in the early 70's and part of the Norlin invasion....

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item35e34963fa

 

Note the bridge/saddle on this one also....no pearl dot covered screws!

 

I agree that the pickguard is the correct shape, however it is not the thick guard that was common on mid to late 60's J50's.

 

Like Zombywoof says...."lots of strangeness" !

 

 

Interesting. I suppose the J-50 you are looking at could be a transition version 1968-'69, maybe the last of the round-shoulder designs. A serial number would be really helpful here. As you say, a lot going on that really needs a careful first-hand exam.

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Original links still didn't work, but the link to the page of photos does work. After looking at the photos, I'm more convinced this is an early '69, probably one of the last slopes. The combination of the extra dot on the fretboard, and a bridge that looks a lot like some of those in the pictures on square dread models, seem to be very good clues. Still would like to see the serial number.

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Interesting. I suppose the J-50 you are looking at could be a transition version 1968-'69, maybe the last of the round-shoulder designs. A serial number would be really helpful here. As you say, a lot going on that really needs a careful first-hand exam.

 

Nick, I agree....transitional! I will look at the serial# myself tomorrow and report back. I will do a little more 'all around' and maybe 'inside' inspection.

 

Speaking of 'transitionals" ...the very first vintage 'acoustic Gibson' that I acquired....in '92..maybe, was a '69 J160E. Cleaned up nicely and although narrow-nutted....played like a dream! It had the original bridge with a VERY-nicely done set-saddle fill-in. The guitar had the screwed down pickguard and had 'morphed' into the square-shoulders. Nice, very subtle cherry-amber burst. Quite a looker, except for some paint/finish flaking around the Gibson and crown logos. This was the period that Gibson inlayed a block of MOP and painted the logo over it (pantograph style) I believe they called it.

 

That guitar had a great balance of tone, but lacked volume and articulation because of the lam-top and ladder-bracing....sorry to go off on another tangent! It was the 'transitional thing'....

 

 

 

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