Gibson Guitar Board: Help Identifying Vintage Gibson Pickups - Gibson Guitar Board

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Help Identifying Vintage Gibson Pickups

#1 User is offline   tourofrooms 

  • Newbie
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: 01-March 15

Posted 02 March 2015 - 04:02 PM

I'm dealing with a couple humbuckers from a guitar I got cheap from Guitar Center. They claimed these were Dirty Fingers when I bought the guitar but I am pretty sure they are not. But the more research I do, and based on my testing, I am probably more lost now than I was at first. But I hope someone with the knowledge can help to solve this one. Here's the scoop.

2 Gibson humbuckers with chrome covers, and they appear to be identical and paired as a set
1 row adjustable using slotted screws
I removed the covers
Both bobbins black
appears to be 1 black and 1 white wires under the tape which is fed through the base plate in the cloth type insulation
There is a solid wire, prolly 18g, with black insulation and the ground sorts wraps around that insulation. Both are fed inside the cloth like insulation
The bridge has a yellow mark on the insulation of the lead wire and the neck has a red mark. Looks like how they are differentiated. Not sure if it was done at the factory or the installer
Oh, the baseplate has the engraved PAT NO 2.737.842 but no other markings or dates

With chrome covers removed, and pickups soldered in, I set the 3 postion pickup selector to the bridge position, and turned the volume up full. The bridge humbucker tested 14.8 ohms
If I moved the pickup selector to the center or neck position, this caused the bridge pickup to drop to about 7.45 ohms or so

OK, the same type of scenario with the neck pickup. I set the selector switch to the neck position, volume to full and the neck humbucker tested 14.8 ohms.
When I changed the pickup selector to the middle or bridge position , this caused the neck humbucker to drop to about 7.35 ohms

While reassembling the guitar and chrome covers, the lead for the bridge came off the 3 way pickup switch. Now I cannot get either of the humbuckers to test at 14.8 ohms anymore. They read 7.45 and 7.35. I did not re-solder the bridge lead back in yet if that matters. Now I am wondering if in fact these humbuckers are 14.8 ohms each, or are they 7.45 and 7.35 respectively. Was I getting 14.8 because that is what both humbuckers read when combined? What might I have done wrong when testing? I have to make sure I tested correctly

Anyway, there is still the question of which model humbuckers I have. I knew someone would want to know DC resistance so I did try to include as much info as possible. I am ready and able to re-test the pickups and can open the guitar up for photos at a moments notice. Any help is appreciated here.

I have no idea how to determine what pickups these are but when they read 14.8 ohms, I assumed ceramic magnets and maybe the 500T. If they might be 7.45 and 7.35 ohms, I am wondering if this could be the T-Tops spec. I have to know if these are ceramic magnets. I am not sure if they have both cermamic and alnico but I do have a photo and I could use a little help identifying the magnets too.

Now I might send this post without photos because I lost the last post while trying to send the photos. If this happens, I will send the photos afterwards. but any help based on the information I have given so far would be great. If I have to do any more testing, or take the pickups aparts, I will be sure to follow any advice or guidance from someone who has knowledge. I also want to possibly convert these to be coil tapped but only if they are hotter than 7.35 and 7.45.

Again I appreciate assistance with these G-HBs

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: 0.jpg
  • Attached Image: 1.jpg
  • Attached Image: 2.jpg
  • Attached Image: 3.jpg
  • Attached Image: 4.jpg

0

#2 User is offline   btoth76 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6951
  • Joined: 14-July 10
  • LocationBudapest, Hungary

Posted 05 March 2015 - 02:43 AM

Hello and welcome to the Forums!

All I can say it's not a Dirty Fingers. They have two rows of adjustable pole-pieces.

...and not T-Top either, those have a "T" shaped tooling mark in the middle of the top of the bobbins, hence it's name.

This magnet seems to be AlNiCo (well, as far as I can judge by the photo). Ceramic magnet bars are black, AlNiCo magnets have a more metallic look - as it seems on Your photo.

Very much likely, they are 490R/498T pickups - even the DC resistance measurements suggest that.

But, I recommend contacting member Searcy. I am sure He will be able to help You.

Cheers... Bence
_________________________________

2010 Gibson LP Studio 50's Tribute GT - 2011 Gibson LP Classic Custom AN - 1978 Gibson LP Recording WB - 2011 Gibson L6S SB
2016 Epiphone Les Paul ES WR
2010 Fender FSR Standard Ash Telecaster Butterscotch Blonde (Baja modded)
- 2013 Fender American Special Stratocaster SG
Böhm-Regent amplification

VOX Wah V845 - Ibanez effects - Zoom MS-50G - Stereo Tremolo Pan - EP Booster - Diablo Plus
Bayus straps (http://bayus.eu)
0

#3 User is offline   Searcy 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 8713
  • Joined: 21-March 10
  • LocationNashville

Posted 05 March 2015 - 05:38 AM

I believe what you have there are a set of early 1980's Gibson humbuckers. These look to be exactly the same some of pickup that are now referred to as Tim Shaw pickup except for the missing ink stamp code. This suggests to me that they may have originally had a sticker on the base plate telling us exactly what model they were. Given your DC resistance readings I would guess they are early 80's PAF reissues.
0

#4 User is offline   Searcy 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 8713
  • Joined: 21-March 10
  • LocationNashville

Posted 05 March 2015 - 05:40 AM

Here is a current auction to a one on Ebay. We can't say with 100% certainty that your pickups are the same but I'm about 75% sure that's what it is.

http://www.ebay.com/...R-/321638854871
0

#5 User is offline   sancheski 

  • Newbie
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: 04-March 15
  • LocationGalicia, Spain

Posted 05 March 2015 - 09:06 AM

These are 1985-87 Tim Shaw pickups. They have white plastic spacers, rought cast magnet, "square-inside-circle" hole, black and white plastic-covered wires, they read in the middle 7's...
0

#6 User is offline   tourofrooms 

  • Newbie
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: 01-March 15

Posted 05 March 2015 - 01:31 PM

View Postsancheski, on 05 March 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

These are 1985-87 Tim Shaw pickups. They have white plastic spacers, rought cast magnet, "square-inside-circle" hole, black and white plastic-covered wires, they read in the middle 7's...


Thanks alot for the replies here. If these are Tim Shaw pickups, it is my understanding that they are well respected? It seems like alot of reviews are very fond of these pickups. I am hoping this means I have some very good pickups here.
Is there a particular wiring configuration that suits a tim shaw set of pickups? I mean, my perception of a typical Les Paul or gibson is 3 way pickup selector, 2 volume and 2 tone controls.
Currently, the guitar that I have them on has the 3 way pickup selector, but only 1 volume and 1 tone, which I believe are both 500k.
I'd like make the most of these pickups and I'm willing to poke a couple more pots in to get the more common Gibson wiring setup if it is better

Here's couple photos of the guitar I got. It cost me $199 and these gibson pickups were installed in it. Maybe I got a pretty decent deal after all?

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: 1sm.jpg
  • Attached Image: 2sm.jpg

0

#7 User is offline   JM2112 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 776
  • Joined: 03-February 12

Posted 28 March 2015 - 02:55 PM

Agreed that they are Shaw pick ups, too. The later Shaws had no ink stamp on the base plate, just the stamped patent number. The white spacers, black and white wiring, rough texture magnet, and the ohm reading you gave are more indications they are Shaws. Hold on to these pick ups if you ever change them for something different.

I have an 85 LP Custom with Shaws, too. It has no ink stamp on the base plate and the ohm reading is very close to yours as well.
Electric Guitars:
Gibson Les Paul Custom 1977
Gibson Les Paul Custom 1978
Gibson Les Paul Custom 1985
Gibson Les Paul Custom 2013 Limited Run
Gibson Les Paul Classic Custom
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson CS356
Gibson ES359
Acoustic Guitars:
Martin GPCPA1
Martin OMC-16OGTE
Martin D12-28
Amps:
Marshall DSL

"There are no bad notes, only bad choices."
0

#8 User is offline   tourofrooms 

  • Newbie
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: 01-March 15

Posted 28 March 2015 - 04:04 PM

Awe man, I love hearing these words. And I especially love the part where you said "Hold on to these pickups"
The guitar that ended up only costing me $167 and I had a $50 gift card to bring it to a cash out of pocket of only $117
Is there a way around the limitation for uploading photos here?
I think it has a total size limitation and my previous uploads are being applied to that limit. So i cannot upload again since the available balance for file size is too small for any worthwhile photo

Anyway, I am grateful for the info. But one think stll puzzles me. Some people just do not want to acknowledge that there were in fact some later versions of Tim Shaw humbuckers that had the Patent # only. I mean, if all the specs line up, I am inclined to believe there is no disputing it but it's hard to convince some people of that. I for one know that even the stamped dates and codes which I think were 384 on the neck and 385 on the bridge or vice versa. I imagine these might have been sold in guitars and a re a matched set. I think what i have might be a matched set also because the wear, although minimal on each of these pickups, is extremeley consistent with each other as if they have been paling around together as best friends for years, if you know what I mean.

I will take heed of the advice to never get rid of these even if I change them out. I think they are the warmest sounding things for the level of output the have.
0

#9 User is offline   JM2112 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 776
  • Joined: 03-February 12

Posted 31 March 2015 - 05:56 PM

View Posttourofrooms, on 28 March 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

Awe man, I love hearing these words. And I especially love the part where you said "Hold on to these pickups"
The guitar that ended up only costing me $167 and I had a $50 gift card to bring it to a cash out of pocket of only $117
Is there a way around the limitation for uploading photos here?
I think it has a total size limitation and my previous uploads are being applied to that limit. So i cannot upload again since the available balance for file size is too small for any worthwhile photo

Anyway, I am grateful for the info. But one think stll puzzles me. Some people just do not want to acknowledge that there were in fact some later versions of Tim Shaw humbuckers that had the Patent # only. I mean, if all the specs line up, I am inclined to believe there is no disputing it but it's hard to convince some people of that. I for one know that even the stamped dates and codes which I think were 384 on the neck and 385 on the bridge or vice versa. I imagine these might have been sold in guitars and a re a matched set. I think what i have might be a matched set also because the wear, although minimal on each of these pickups, is extremeley consistent with each other as if they have been paling around together as best friends for years, if you know what I mean.

I will take heed of the advice to never get rid of these even if I change them out. I think they are the warmest sounding things for the level of output the have.


If some folks want to believe that all Shaws had inked stamps on them, that's their problem. There are also what are called transitional Shaws that have the old T-top bobbins that some folks want to deny exist, but they do exist. These were very early Shaw pick ups.

There's just too many characteristics that you've mentioned about your pick ups to deny they are Shaws, IMHO. The Ohm reading and white spacers are a big factor that you can not ignore. While some other things may vary about Shaws like not having the ink stamp on the later Shaws and the T-top bobbin on early Shaws, the Ohm reading and white spacers have always been consistent from what I've seen in every Shaw regardless of when it was made.

These pick ups can vary in asking price around the $200-$300 range. Like all things, though, the price goes nowhere but up with time, and as you found out, their tone rocks, too!

If you ever get a chance to play a Norlin era Les Paul with its original T-top pick ups, do it!!! IMHO, the T-top pick ups are the best to be had, they just smoke!!! [thumbup]
Electric Guitars:
Gibson Les Paul Custom 1977
Gibson Les Paul Custom 1978
Gibson Les Paul Custom 1985
Gibson Les Paul Custom 2013 Limited Run
Gibson Les Paul Classic Custom
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson CS356
Gibson ES359
Acoustic Guitars:
Martin GPCPA1
Martin OMC-16OGTE
Martin D12-28
Amps:
Marshall DSL

"There are no bad notes, only bad choices."
0

#10 User is offline   DynoByte 

  • Wild Child
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 103
  • Joined: 31-October 08
  • Location81st Street

Posted 31 March 2015 - 08:59 PM

View PostJM2112, on 31 March 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

If some folks want to believe that all Shaws had inked stamps on them, that's their problem. There are also what are called transitional Shaws that have the old T-top bobbins that some folks want to deny exist, but they do exist.


Yes on all counts. There are early T-Shaws (Possibly '79) and well as late ones with no stamp. They were first commissioned for the Heritage 80 series but seen earlier. Also the poly color is a dead give away. Hang on to those !
It don't mean a thank if it ain't got the squank !
0

#11 User is offline   stein 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9310
  • Joined: 09-February 11

Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:52 PM

So then, what exactly makes a Shaw pup a Shaw pup?

Where does one draw the line as to pre-Shaw or post-Shaw?
0

#12 User is offline   tourofrooms 

  • Newbie
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: 01-March 15

Posted 31 March 2015 - 11:19 PM

I don't know but I want that bike that Dyno Byte is using as an Avatar.
0

#13 User is offline   DynoByte 

  • Wild Child
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 103
  • Joined: 31-October 08
  • Location81st Street

Posted 01 April 2015 - 11:02 AM

View Poststein, on 31 March 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

So then, what exactly makes a Shaw pup a Shaw pup?

Where does one draw the line as to pre-Shaw or post-Shaw?


Pre Shaw won't have an ink stamp, the first one that did was on the Heritage 80.
It don't mean a thank if it ain't got the squank !
0

#14 User is offline   JM2112 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 776
  • Joined: 03-February 12

Posted 01 April 2015 - 04:09 PM

View PostDynoByte, on 31 March 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

Yes on all counts. There are early T-Shaws (Possibly '79) and well as late ones with no stamp. They were first commissioned for the Heritage 80 series but seen earlier. Also the poly color is a dead give away. Hang on to those !


I believe the Elites had Shaws, too, then other models got them later on.

The earliest I've seen are a pair of pick ups date stamped May 1st and the other May 6th 1980. They have the T-top bobbin, white spacers, black and white wiring, etc. They are installed on a Standard which is very unusual.
Electric Guitars:
Gibson Les Paul Custom 1977
Gibson Les Paul Custom 1978
Gibson Les Paul Custom 1985
Gibson Les Paul Custom 2013 Limited Run
Gibson Les Paul Classic Custom
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson CS356
Gibson ES359
Acoustic Guitars:
Martin GPCPA1
Martin OMC-16OGTE
Martin D12-28
Amps:
Marshall DSL

"There are no bad notes, only bad choices."
0

#15 User is offline   tourofrooms 

  • Newbie
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: 01-March 15

Posted 01 April 2015 - 05:01 PM

View PostDynoByte, on 01 April 2015 - 11:02 AM, said:

Pre Shaw won't have an ink stamp, the first one that did was on the Heritage 80.



Do the Pre-Shaws have any characteristics that differ from the ones I've posted?
I also recall something about the type of wire used. But I am here asking the panel of qualified judges
Alot sellers trying to get high dollars even for patent applied for versions without the stamp, and yet they are not actually claiming they are Shaws. They don't seem to have trouble getting $200 a piece
0

#16 User is offline   DynoByte 

  • Wild Child
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 103
  • Joined: 31-October 08
  • Location81st Street

Posted 01 April 2015 - 05:52 PM

View Posttourofrooms, on 01 April 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Do the Pre-Shaws have any characteristics that differ from the ones I've posted?
I also recall something about the type of wire used. But I am here asking the panel of qualified judges
Alot sellers trying to get high dollars even for patent applied for versions without the stamp, and yet they are not actually claiming they are Shaws. They don't seem to have trouble getting $200 a piece


The rough mags, plastic spacers and poly wire color are usually the tells but anything can be copied. The hardest would be the poly color. When Tim Shaw was assigned to make these he wanted enamel wire just like the vintage pafs but it wasn't in the budget so he used his own poly formula which differs from any other pickup. There's an interview with him about this and I'll see if I can find it.
It don't mean a thank if it ain't got the squank !
0

#17 User is offline   DynoByte 

  • Wild Child
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 103
  • Joined: 31-October 08
  • Location81st Street

Posted 01 April 2015 - 07:01 PM

Here's an interesting comparison of Shaws and PAFs. Which do you like better ? I like the Shaws.


It don't mean a thank if it ain't got the squank !
0

#18 User is offline   vicovibe 

  • Newbie
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: 19-July 17

Posted 20 July 2017 - 07:00 PM

I just removed a few pickups from a guitar and was curious if they could be Shaws?

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: 20170720_180418.jpg
  • Attached Image: 20170720_180414.jpg
  • Attached Image: 20170720_180406.jpg

0

#19 User is offline   vicovibe 

  • Newbie
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: 19-July 17

Posted 04 August 2017 - 11:20 AM

View Postbtoth76, on 05 March 2015 - 02:43 AM, said:

Hello and welcome to the Forums!

All I can say it's not a Dirty Fingers. They have two rows of adjustable pole-pieces.

...and not T-Top either, those have a "T" shaped tooling mark in the middle of the top of the bobbins, hence it's name.

This magnet seems to be AlNiCo (well, as far as I can judge by the photo). Ceramic magnet bars are black, AlNiCo magnets have a more metallic look - as it seems on Your photo.

Very much likely, they are 490R/498T pickups - even the DC resistance measurements suggest that.

But, I recommend contacting member Searcy. I am sure He will be able to help You.

Cheers... Bence


Bence, do these look like Shaws?

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: 20170720_180406.jpg
  • Attached Image: 20170720_180418.jpg

0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users