babysnakes Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Can anybody recommend a worthy set of replacement pickups with four leads, that are not going to be a downgrade from my '57s? I'd just get four-lead 57s but they are 200 bucks apiece! And also could anybody recommend a specific push/pull or push/push pot that will fit in the body cavity without any other modifications? Thank you! I know I have some research to do but I'd appreciate any recommendations that could point me in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Save your time, money, effort, and guitar. Buy another guitar with P90s in it and everyone in your life will be happier. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysnakes Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Save your time, money, effort, and guitar. Buy another guitar with P90s in it and everyone in your life will be happier. rct Really? That big of a deal? I have a guitar with p90s already. I want to add coil splitting to this one. Anybody else care to chime in here? Is this a bad idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Coil splits on '57 Classics sound great. However, my Frank Zappa "Roxy" SGs have DPDT mini toggle switches for that. Sorry, but I neither know how the 2014 SG Standards are routed, nor what push/pull pots they used at Gibson, nor what they use at Epiphone for making their SGs featuring coil splits. I prefer next to everything over P90s, humbuckers in series operation, parallel operation, split operation, and noiseless stacked single coils. A matter of taste, of course. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 What do you expect to get out of it, or better put maybe as why do you want to do that? rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysnakes Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Coil splits on '57 Classics sound great. However, my Frank Zappa "Roxy" SGs have DPDT mini toggle switches for that. Sorry, but I neither know how the 2014 SG Standards are routed, nor what push/pull pots they used at Gibson, nor what they use at Epiphone for making their SGs featuring coil splits. I prefer next to everything over P90s, humbuckers in series operation, parallel operation, split operation, and noiseless stacked single coils. A matter of taste, of course. B) This is what I want to go for. I'm a big Zappa fan. I want the increased versatility, the option to get a thinner and cleaner sound. I want to make this guitar more versatile, so I don't feel I need to grab the strat for certain things, because well I love this guitar and I'd love it if it could make some thin, biting single-coil sounds, as well as some nasally out of phase sounds while we're at it. I use fuzz a lot and I like the textures that I can get from single coils with fuzz. I was thinking about maybe buying a duplicate pickguard and installing mini toggle switches, so that I could leave the original pickguard and pickups in the case to revert to 'stock' at any time. But I imagine the wood isn't routed underneath the pickguard, either, am I wrong? What do you expect to get out of it, or better put maybe as why do you want to do that? See above... Why wouldn't I want to do it? I want the guitar to be more versatile. I want to get some single coil sounds out of this guitar as well as the stock sounds. I want to be able to flip it to single coil at the bridge for a solo, and crank up the fuzz and make it sound like razor blades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Ok. Have at it then. Most don't like it, that's why they have humbuckers and singles, that's just been my experience. Lots of times people are asking about it that have no idea why they want to do something other than they saw it on the net, but you aren't there. If I was going to split a 61 reissue I'd get four conductor 57 classics. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Ok. Have at it then. Most don't like it, that's why they have humbuckers and singles, that's just been my experience. Lots of times people are asking about it that have no idea why they want to do something other than they saw it on the net, but you aren't there. If I was going to split a 61 reissue I'd get four conductor 57 classics. rct Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Buy another guitar with P90s in it rct That's a GREAT idea!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Personally, I ain't in the coil split camp. MY reasons: "Split coils", (or whatever the proper term) do not sound as good as a good single coil pup. Humbuckers are designed to sound good as humbuckers with both coils together, and not really made to have the one coil sound good. Making a humbucker with one of the coils sound good is a compromise to how the pup would sound as a humbucker. Adding switches and extra wires is usually a downgrade, or a compromise to the "best" sound one could possibly get. In fact, I much prefer the sound quality of the standard shielded wire to the sound of the 4 conductor ones, all other things being equal. To most, that might be splitting hairs. But that's also why I don't split coils. My solution, one that I find that works REALLY well, is to use the volume knob and the tone knobs. It's hard not to be a smart-azz about it, but once one gets the idea that having these knobs full up is NOT a more "pure, better sound", using them DOES result in a LOT of sounds and tones besides just the one "full up". Example: a humbucker at half volume (usually) sounds better than a switching off half a humbucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well there you go again with decent guitar advice when we should be pissing up a rope about how horrible Gibsons are this year. I'm out. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysnakes Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Personally, I ain't in the coil split camp. MY reasons: "Split coils", (or whatever the proper term) do not sound as good as a good single coil pup. Humbuckers are designed to sound good as humbuckers with both coils together, and not really made to have the one coil sound good. Making a humbucker with one of the coils sound good is a compromise to how the pup would sound as a humbucker. Adding switches and extra wires is usually a downgrade, or a compromise to the "best" sound one could possibly get. In fact, I much prefer the sound quality of the standard shielded wire to the sound of the 4 conductor ones, all other things being equal. To most, that might be splitting hairs. But that's also why I don't split coils. My solution, one that I find that works REALLY well, is to use the volume knob and the tone knobs. It's hard not to be a smart-azz about it, but once one gets the idea that having these knobs full up is NOT a more "pure, better sound", using them DOES result in a LOT of sounds and tones besides just the one "full up". Example: a humbucker at half volume (usually) sounds better than a switching off half a humbucker. While I totally get your point, I would argue that I do make as much use of the volume and tone knobs as possible, and no combination of anything less than 100% on volume and tone, with the bridge pickup selected, is going to get it to sound any more bright/trebly than that. And that's its limitation. For the time being I'm making good use of my vox wah in a fixed position to give it more bite and really cut through. And that's probably what I'll continue to do to get a more biting tone out of my new SG. But there are applications for which another sound that is less 'fat' could come straight out of the guitar, without me having to step on the wah (though I love that sound and will continue to do that, but the thin jangle of a single coil is its own thing) If it's really not worth it I probably won't bother with coil splitting, but I definitely want to at least have the option to put the pickups out of phase with one another, for mid-position on the pickup selector. I feel that might be enough to satisfy my desire for variety... Thanks for your suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Gibson Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 While I totally get your point, I would argue that I do make as much use of the volume and tone knobs as possible, and no combination of anything less than 100% on volume and tone, with the bridge pickup selected, is going to get it to sound any more bright/trebly than that. And that's its limitation. For the time being I'm making good use of my vox wah in a fixed position to give it more bite and really cut through. And that's probably what I'll continue to do to get a more biting tone out of my new SG. But there are applications for which another sound that is less 'fat' could come straight out of the guitar, without me having to step on the wah (though I love that sound and will continue to do that, but the thin jangle of a single coil is its own thing) If it's really not worth it I probably won't bother with coil splitting, but I definitely want to at least have the option to put the pickups out of phase with one another, for mid-position on the pickup selector. I feel that might be enough to satisfy my desire for variety... Thanks for your suggestions I kinda agree with RCT here, in that you might be one of those guys that could want, or like it. Obviously, you have experience with different combos of stuff. And obviously, (as RTC also said), the 4 conductor version of the very same pup is the most obvious "change" to make, if adding that one option of coil splitting is the goal. And of corse, the "out of phase" option is a useful one, used by many in the past. I for one, have had, and do have, that on a few guitars in one form or another, either with a switch or just reversed without a switch. Right now, the option I am going for is some advil. Considering all the options to be had and how to switch them is making my head hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysnakes Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Thanks, yes believe me this is headache inducing for me also One quick question though, Stein, while we're on the subject: If I wanted to "permanently" (without a switch) wire my neck pickup out of phase with the bridge, so that in the middle position I always hear the two pickups together, out of phase, would I need four-conductor pickup(s) for that also? I'm reading mixed opinions.. Some say it's as simple as swapping the +/- wires coming out of the pickup, others say I need four conductor wires and that it's more complicated. I've even read somebody's claim that you could simply do this by turning the pickup around and mounting it in reverse, without changing anything in the wiring (most things I've read say this is not true) Can you or anyone shed some light on this? Can I wire my neck pickup out of phase by unsoldering and swapping the two wires coming out of the pickup, wherever it connects to the next thing in the circuit, and resoldering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Thanks, yes believe me this is headache inducing for me also One quick question though, Stein, while we're on the subject: If I wanted to "permanently" (without a switch) wire my neck pickup out of phase with the bridge, so that in the middle position I always hear the two pickups together, out of phase, would I need four-conductor pickup(s) for that also? I'm reading mixed opinions.. Some say it's as simple as swapping the +/- wires coming out of the pickup, others say I need four conductor wires and that it's more complicated. I've even read somebody's claim that you could simply do this by turning the pickup around and mounting it in reverse, without changing anything in the wiring (most things I've read say this is not true) Can you or anyone shed some light on this? Can I wire my neck pickup out of phase by unsoldering and swapping the two wires coming out of the pickup, wherever it connects to the next thing in the circuit, and resoldering? One obvious thing would be to simply reverse the wires. Which, you CAN do. The reason I think some might say you need 4 conductor, is that, in a TYPICAL humbucker, it's really a one conductor, or rather, a single conductor with the shield as the ground and "negative" wire. With a 4 conductor you reverse the + and -, and the shield stays the same, and works the same. Technically, or "properly", the shield should be disconnected from it's grounding, if to be used as the +. But in real use, real life, it doesn't do much anyway. Of corse, I am assuming reversing the wires at the pot or elsewhere, NOT at the pickup. Swapping the wires at the pup, while maybe more "proper", is surgery, as in tougher job and more risky. You are correct in that "spinning" the pup in it's cavity will do nothing as far as phase goes. The wires will still wind the same direction. As will the polarity still be the same. So, basically, you are correct on all accounts here. It's easy and reversable, so why not give it a try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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