PelhamBlueFire Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Let's say you've got a great amp, a great and expensive guitar, a fantastic tone on stage...and then it sounds like **** out front. Ever had this? You'll have lots of great sound men, and there's the bonehead that just destroys your tone. Recently, I had a great tone on stage, and people said both me and the other guitar player just sounded way too loud and extremely bad. According to some people, the bass player sounded like someone that had an episode of diarrhea...just awful. Ever had this? Please share any experience like this, like the worst experience. I always enjoy these kinds of threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromnabulax Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I used to have that problem continually. Then I got an opening slot gig for a headliner that being fed up with that reality rented and toured with a PA system that was built to their specs. I learned from them and bought myself a small PA and am always responsible for my own sound wherever I go. I may need to patch into an existing set up, but I always run my own sound. Regarding that headlining band, we were booked into a rather good sized room in South Carolina one night. The owner insisted we could save a ton of time by using his set up. Knowing better, our guys began loading in our gear. We got to the four front line wedge monitors and set them on the sidewalk to tote indoors. The club owner took one look, opened his eyes as wide as silver dollars and exclaimed... and I quote.... "That's the biggest PA I have EVER seen!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Played a benefit concert for the Arkansas Alzheimer's association last April. The sound guy was the same as the last year where he did a great job. 450 people audience ready to rock on classics. The guy was totally trashed when we were setting up so I had a bad feeling about it. Levels were screwed to the point that people in the audience were flashing the finger up sign to increase volume on various aspects of the band like solos etc. When it came time for me to do Rocky Mountain Way's talk box solo, he didn't turn my mike up at all through the whole thing so I just looked like an idiot (mores than usual I mean). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skilsaw Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 According to some people, the bass player sounded like someone that had an episode of diarrhea...just awful. I always enjoy these kinds of threads. Yeah. I like talking about noisy wet diarrhea too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B. Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 This goes back a way so sit back and enjoy the read. 1970, somewhere central New Jersey. Outdoor summer festival concert. stage was made up from 8' x 4' folding leg table type platforms, somewhat clamped together. For the most part a pretty stable affair, at first. Things were going well, the crowd was a good one, the band was clicking and we were in the middle of a lengthy jam on some RnR tune of the day. At this time our roadie/sound man took the opportunity to walk off and chase some sweet young thing since little attention was needed at the board. I was playing thru a Marshall stack of 2 4-12's with a Hiwatt atop. The bottom cabinet was on castors which were supposedly locked by the roadie when he placed them during set-up. This happened to be one of the rare occasions when I did not double check the wheel locks. As we were banging away the floor/stage/platforming was doing a good bit of bouncing on it's own. In the middle of a rather intense lead solo I happened to look at the crowd directly in front of me and noticed something rather odd. A few of them had slowed down their frantic gyrations, (remember this was the 70's), and were looking at me with mouths open and wide eyed. Then they were pointing and shouting at me about something or other which under the circumstance I could not make out. After a moment or two I turned around just in time to see my beloved stack walking it's way across the stage straight at me. It was doing a sort of bounce-walk-bounce-walk kind of thing, all the while rocking back and forth. Talk about your surreal moments. I quickly looked over to where the sound/roadie guy was supposed to be only to see an empty space. I quickly turned back to the stack just as it was starting to teeter out of the vertical. A quick one armed reach stopped the inevitable crash. Thing was that no one else in the band seemed to notice. My fault partly as I was still soloing with my left hand on the neck. Finally after what seemed like an eternity the singer noticed that my lead had taken on a strange cadence and glanced over to see what was going on. He ran over and took up position as speaker support. We ended the song and believe it or not the crowd went nuts. Go figure. As soon as things were under control we announced a quick break, jumped off the stage and hunted down the roadie/soundbum. I don't remember exactly how things went at that point but a good deal of restraint had to be applied by the bass player in order to keep me from tearing the guy a new rear end. Lesson learned: keep tabs of your sound guy and always check your wheel locks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I've been pretty lucky overall. My rock days were with crappy tube PA rigs that were loud but... would break up in a big auditorium when trying to match guitar volume levels. But that was what it was. Did my own PA in saloons through the '70s and a break from weekend warriorhood of the guitar. Then... Good sound guy and good equipment, but bad connection to electricity and folks walking over the not-so-good cord. Imagine playing the Star Spangled Banner "classical guitar" style with the monitors whipping off and on and folks in the crowd - a welcome home for an Army National Guard unit - swapping from salute to waving their arms as if we didn't know there was a problem. I likely would have done better without the monitors at that point in time. <sigh> That's probably the most embarrassing of 50-plus years off and on of "playing out." Oddly the same thing happened to a young lady friend doing an a cappella version of the U.S. National Anthem at a major rodeo here. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Never really had a sound man... Never really played a professional enough gig to have someone doing that who was outside of the performers in a given project or band format... I have been told to turn-down by show promoters and club owners. I happen to conflict with what I think they think they're hearing... But I've also found part of it was the dynamic situation of not having monitors on-stage to hear our own signal/sound/output from the audience perspective. I've also found that my penchant to set up right over my open-back cabinet amps totally skewed my perception of not only tone but volume when I started using closed-back cabinets/amps... I stand over the amp tweaking tone on my open backs, but my closed-back Vox AD120VTX is a projector. Any tone you hear standing within 6' of that amp is wholly different if you move as little as another 2' away. The minimum distance to hear the true tone output of that amp is 8' away... It has made me wonder that even with the open back amps I've used were potentially over-powering from an actual audience distance away and even worse if my tone was nothing like what I thought I was hearing standing over it... I've learned my lesson and I check from distances and one of the best tools to do this is a looper to check yourself from outside performance zone to get a feel for the sound in the audience zone... Monitors are probably a really good tool that I've just never had the luxury or opportunity to use. But getting a feel for your tone from other than right next to or in front of your own amp is a major key thing too... It just never really crossed my mind in my small basement studio room I built but even in those confines going from 6' away from that Vox to 8' away makes a huge difference and that's even down on it's 1 watt per twin-speaker setting... Sorry this isn't a sound-man story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I don't have one. Never really had a bad sound man. Some bad situations that nobody could knob fiddle their way out of, but nobody so bad they couldn't understand if things weren't right. By the third song it's good as it can be, so just always got lucky I guess and dug it from there. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The contract technical rider/stage plot for my Blues band contains the following statement: "We are a BLUES band, not rappers or thrashers. Rib cage rattling kick drum and bass levels are NOT required. Make us sound GOOD, like a blues band should." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 this was just last year. we were almost to the end of our 2nd set. suddenly, the bassist's vocal mike in the monitors increased 2x in volume. at the end of the song, the keyboardist and I said over the mics "bass vocals too hot on stage". we kick into the last song of the set, and his mic is even louder in the monitors. we go on break, i walk up to the soundman and say "bassist vocals are too hot on stage" I don't know how many drinks he had, but he was at the point where he was looking in my direction, but was focused on a point somewhere behind me... this is how the conversation went - me- bassist vocals are too hot on stage him- ok, well let me know if any thing needs adjusting, with this board i can turn this up, or that down... whatever you need. me- ok, well, the bassists vocal mic is too loud on stage him - just let me know what needs to be adjusted, i can fine tune it ... me - the bassist, his ... him - does anything need to be ... me - THE BASSIST, MARK, THE LITTLE GUY, HIS VOCAL MICROPHONE, IT IS TOO LOUD ON THE STAGE COMING THROUGH THE MONITORS, IT IS TOO LOUD IN THE STAGE MONITORS, WE NEED FOR YOU TO TURN THE LITTLE GUYS MICROPHONE DOWN IN THE MONITORS. THAT ONE ... THERE... him - his ? me - yes him - too loud ? me - yes... him - got it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Whoa...IQ the same as a slide scale! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 And talking of bloody monitors.... We were doing an 'end of harvest' gig out in the country one time. All our amps and PA belong personally to us except the monitors, we have to hire them. So, we're set up, playing, everythings going good. About 1/4 way through the last set, and the monitor in front of me starts smoking! I look up through the crowd at our sound lizard and start pointing at the monitor. By this time the smoke is really starting to pour out of it, you couldn't miss it. The sound guy finally twigs onto what's happening and starts panicing, switching this and that on and off, sliding levels up and down. Of course the whole sound of the song went to hell there and then and we had to stop as by then one of our roadies comes flying out onto the stage with a fire extinguiser and begins hosing down this monitor! The crowd thought it was great entertainment. All we needed was some flash bombs to go off and it would've been complete. Took about 15 minutes to get evrything sorted out and start playing again. And the mob that hired us the monitors wanted us to pay for the damaged unit! Threw them out the back of the truck and told them to stuff it! (lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PelhamBlueFire Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 this was just last year. we were almost to the end of our 2nd set. suddenly, the bassist's vocal mike in the monitors increased 2x in volume. at the end of the song, the keyboardist and I said over the mics "bass vocals too hot on stage". we kick into the last song of the set, and his mic is even louder in the monitors. we go on break, i walk up to the soundman and say "bassist vocals are too hot on stage" I don't know how many drinks he had, but he was at the point where he was looking in my direction, but was focused on a point somewhere behind me... this is how the conversation went - me- bassist vocals are too hot on stage him- ok, well let me know if any thing needs adjusting, with this board i can turn this up, or that down... whatever you need. me- ok, well, the bassists vocal mic is too loud on stage him - just let me know what needs to be adjusted, i can fine tune it ... me - the bassist, his ... him - does anything need to be ... me - THE BASSIST, MARK, THE LITTLE GUY, HIS VOCAL MICROPHONE, IT IS TOO LOUD ON THE STAGE COMING THROUGH THE MONITORS, IT IS TOO LOUD IN THE STAGE MONITORS, WE NEED FOR YOU TO TURN THE LITTLE GUYS MICROPHONE DOWN IN THE MONITORS. THAT ONE ... THERE... him - his ? me - yes him - too loud ? me - yes... him - got it... This sounds familiar, haha. We once had to perform at a school, and the sound man was this student who just got into the business. Needless to say, it was awful. Couldn't mix a damn thing, the sounds coming from the monitors were unbalanced, and we sounded like ****. The audience couldn't hear the lead guitar (me) and the vocals, but the bass player came through like a hurricane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glp2012 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 All I can say is never take advice from a sound man about your bass guitar. They all want to go direct or slam a mic in front of your cabinet. It's almost like those are the only two options...neither sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joevacc Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I'll add a few points here with 28 years as a professional sound engineer under my belt. Not as a side job either. This is all I do. First and foremost: The fact that a person is at the mixing console does not make them a sound engineer. For instance; I am exceedingly handy with tools. I have a knack for making things and detailed finish work. I probably have the abilities to drill and fill your cavities… You may just want me mix for you instead. Second: We engineers have a saying. "Crap in crap out." If what is coming down the line sounds bad your engineers options will be limited. This can be subjective between the performer and the sound person. Thirdly: All gear is not created equal. I have been brought up quite seriously with the belief of the adage that "A poor craftsman will blame their tools". That said, using the wrong tool for the job can also limit you ability to do your best work. There is too many toy-like audio equipment companies out there and broadcast quality audio equipment costs real money. Time permitting I will always ask a musician to play a few lines for me while I am on stage. This gives me an idea of what the musician is listening to and what I have to achieve out front. It is almost a must-do for acoustic instruments and I will go so far as to use my ear while you're playing as to where to start with the mic placement. One funny story I like to tell is about the time I was working a benefit at the UN in New York City. Not only was I the head sound engineer, I was also the technical director for the whole event. We had 550 performers on stage. There was a 330 piece symphony orchestra and a 220 voice choir playing simultaneously. We of course we're doing a broadcast and full HD record as well! Needless to say I was pretty busy leading up to the first sound check. The funny bit is the esteemed conductor ran straight back to me within the first 10 minutes of the sound check. He claimed that he could not hear the violins well. I do believe there were more than 40 of them. I said "Yes sir, I am working on them now." Not three minutes later he came to me again to complain about the level of the violins. Again, I said, "yes sir I am working on them." The third time he came to me to complain I must admit I lost it just a little bit and snapped back at him! ~ "I DON'T HEAR THE VIOLIN'S EITHER! If you don't leave me be for a few minutes no one is going to!!" Hahaha that still makes me Laugh. Now back to your regularly scheduled program! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Bill Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Crappy sound man? Not really sure...there is no way yo tell what it sounds like "out there". The monitor mixes have been less than perfect many times, so that may be an indicator. Never found a use for a sound man in a club environment. As for concert venues, I've always trusted that the powers that be hired good techs that knew what they were doing. JMHE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Always had a decent sound guy but lead singers, now there's a subject I can discuss. I was in a band with a guy who had one great voice. In fact we had two incredible vocalist as the keyboard player was fantastic also. The actual lead singer was a total jacka$$ though. Not at first mind you but through the years his substance abuse led him to miss practice, show up at gigs at the last moment and then start changing the setlist. He'd always mess with the board,screwing with the EQ and volume as if he knew better than our sound guy. Then towards the end his performance would get more and more erratic and embarrassing. I remember one time I looked over and he had stripped down to his bikini briefs and this guy wasn't built for bikini briefs. LOL. RocknRoll right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 LOL, I can relate to that! I still reckon before I give it all away, I've got to at least once get up on stage in a pink tutu, elton john sunglasses, and mickey mouse ears, and belt out a rendition of Cheech Marin's 'Earache My Eye'. Gotta be done! Too funny! (lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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