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beginner restoration advice/guidance vintage les paul


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So I bought this guitar off my friends dad that passed away and I had been wanting to restore it (get it in the best playing condition) and now I have a baby coming and am trying to get the most out of it if I'm going to let it go, it's old, it appears to have his name written into it (in pen?) the wood isn't carved from it just indented....looking for help and guidance considering this is the best forum for that on a restoration to put it in the best selling condition. I know it's been refretted, I can see they also installed the tuners bad because one of them is uneven, and one of them I was gently tightening the screw and the head of the screw just popped off (see pic) and the screen itself is still inside the hole. I know I'm a beginner and noob but I think my intentions are simple and wish to borrow some wisdom to get this guitar where I need it to be.

 

Any help helps

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

could not get the images to work so heres a link

http://s104.photobucket.com/user/rocker777x666/library/guitar

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some interesting photos. the headstock claims it to be a deluxe,

 

IMG_2933_zpssgter0hh.jpg

 

yet those had mini humbuckers, which the pickups you show here appear to be full sized humbuckers. maybe it's just the photos..

 

IMG_2926_zpsonpimcll.jpg

 

so what is it you're actually looking to restore?

 

So you are just looking to clean it up and get it as "good as it gets" to sell it? or are you looking to change any of the physical aspects (like return the machine heads to stock Gibsons, etc) and ya they kinda missed the mark with the tuner replacements, now you have extra holes, that if you are to put Klusons back on there,.. you wont be able to hide them.

 

I think I'd do the former, clean it up, get it setup up as close as possible, and list it..

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I gather your intentions are to sell it.

 

I agree with above, it looks as though it is a "Deluxe" model that has been re-worked to resemble a "Standard" model. That means, literally, it has been modified for different pickups.

 

That's fairly common, as well as tuner swaps.

 

What to do? There is really nothing that can be done to restore this guitar to original. What has been done can't be un-done. Any money you put into that effort will not affect the value this guitar has.

 

What you CAN do, and should do, is clean it up and polish it as much as possible. Clean all the metal, removing any dirt or grime, and make it shine. Do the same to the finish on the body and neck. Use a good polish or "restorer" for that. Clean the fretbaord so it looks (and IS) clean and uniform looking.

 

If it has a pickgaurd, put it back on. That name engraved is obviously intended to be hidden by the gaurd. You COULD have it removed, but it would cost something to do it, would maybe alter the value in it being a partial refinish, and likely wouldn't be worth the cost. Let the next owner decide what and if to do anything about it.

 

Cleaning and polishing is free, but can be a LOT of work. You decide how much or how little to do. You may or may not get more money out of it, but at the very least, make it easier to sell. It certainly won't hurt.

 

But be cautioned against putting any money into it to do this or that. I don't see anywhere this will increase the price you will likely get.

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I know that it's not much help on the restoring part of this. I agree it is aGibson Les Paul Deluxe., Looks like a 1978 Deluxe to me because of how small the radious of the neck is. My friend has a 78 deluxe because he loves the tiny neck and it looks just like his 78 other than his is a heritage cherry sunburst in color. I do know that they didn't make them with the small necks for very long because most people did not like the small necks. He has over $3000 in his because every time he takes it to have stuff done like a refret or nut the person who does it screws it up and he had to pay some one else to fix the mistakes. So be gentle in your restoration. The little things do add up.. Also if you want to sell it My buddy may be interested.

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I agree with above, it looks as though it is a "Deluxe" model that has been re-worked to resemble a "Standard" model. That means, literally, it has been modified for different pickups.

 

This is absolutely INCORRECT information. The earliest production model "Standards" had "Deluxe" serial number decals, see my explanation above.

 

I can personally and physically document this fact, with full provenance, as I own (and bought new) one of the first 25 production model Standards as re-introduced in 1975.

 

Stop the "modified Deluxe" innuendo immediately, it's not one!

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This is absolutely INCORRECT information. The earliest production model "Standards" had "Deluxe" serial number decals, see my explanation above.

 

I can personally and physically document this fact, with full provenance, as I own (and bought new) one of the first 25 production model Standards as re-introduced in 1975.

 

Stop the "modified Deluxe" innuendo immediately, it's not one!

Please note I said "looks like" as opposed to making a claim it "is" a Standard.

 

This could be important what you have provided here, as a factory "Standard" should be worth more than a conversion. That's why we often rely on guys like you. YOU in particular.

 

I believe the routes for the pups may be able to confirm, but I don't know how to tell. I see finish indicating it may be origonal, but also some routing done after the finish.

 

Do you know a way to possibly confirm?

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i am pretty sure it is a standard, as stated above, some call it a "deluxe standard" which makes sense but does not at the same time. as if it was a deluxe to look like a standard it would have somewhat obvious indicators of routing in the wood to put the full size humbuckers in.....none the less.

 

my questions is what do you guys think i should do in terms of....hmmm tuners for staters? the ones currently are pretty bad, and i think devalues the guitar...considering theres a screw with the head broken off, anyone here think maybe getting original tuners and just trying to fill in the current tuner holes with light wood putty sand and stain? im just trying to think of what to do, it plays so great, blows the current era les pauls out of the water, must be the aged wood, it just has character and is very smooth. the serial states it is from the kalamazoo shop and made in 1975. i would just like to polish it obviously but to me the tuners are the biggest thing. i am scared considering the ammount of holes it has now, and if i do set back to original tuners im afraid the previous holes drilled may not hold up, possibly from being open for so long maybe humidity and condensation could have gotten in the pilot holes and softend the wood? just not an expert on the stuff and want to be very gentle and cant really afford to pay someone to restore.

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I know that it's not much help on the restoring part of this. I agree it is aGibson Les Paul Deluxe., Looks like a 1978 Deluxe to me because of how small the radious of the neck is. My friend has a 78 deluxe because he loves the tiny neck and it looks just like his 78 other than his is a heritage cherry sunburst in color. I do know that they didn't make them with the small necks for very long because most people did not like the small necks. He has over $3000 in his because every time he takes it to have stuff done like a refret or nut the person who does it screws it up and he had to pay some one else to fix the mistakes. So be gentle in your restoration. The little things do add up.. Also if you want to sell it My buddy may be interested.

Sorry, but it sounds like "your buddy" is a glutton for punishment....Why would he have the same work done twice....'everytime'...](*,)

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Sorry, but it sounds like "your buddy" is a glutton for punishment....Why would he have the same work done twice....'everytime'...](*,)

 

The first guy that did the refret and some other work(pot change outs,pups) came recamended by my many people but when he went to pick it up after thay had it for 6 or 7 months you could tell theguy waited until he had a week to get it done and rushed it. I would not have paid him the full amount and probably punched the dude. He found a second guy who can fix it proparly but he is saveing up the money to have fixed by somebody who really knows what he is doing. The guitar is playable now but it still needs some TLC from a real pro who can fix the other persons mistakes. My buddy is not a glutton for punishment, he can just be to nice sometimes. He doesn't take any chances with non pros anymore and if it's not done correctly from this point on he won't be paying and it takes alot to piss him off but when is pissed it's not a good thing to be on the recieving end...

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i am pretty sure it is a standard, as stated above, some call it a "deluxe standard" which makes sense but does not at the same time. as if it was a deluxe to look like a standard it would have somewhat obvious indicators of routing in the wood to put the full size humbuckers in.....none the less.

 

my questions is what do you guys think i should do in terms of....hmmm tuners for staters? the ones currently are pretty bad, and i think devalues the guitar...considering theres a screw with the head broken off, anyone here think maybe getting original tuners and just trying to fill in the current tuner holes with light wood putty sand and stain? im just trying to think of what to do, it plays so great, blows the current era les pauls out of the water, must be the aged wood, it just has character and is very smooth. the serial states it is from the kalamazoo shop and made in 1975. i would just like to polish it obviously but to me the tuners are the biggest thing. i am scared considering the ammount of holes it has now, and if i do set back to original tuners im afraid the previous holes drilled may not hold up, possibly from being open for so long maybe humidity and condensation could have gotten in the pilot holes and softend the wood? just not an expert on the stuff and want to be very gentle and cant really afford to pay someone to restore.

I just looked at the pics provided in your original link. The guitar looks much better than I thought when you used the word "restore". It just needs a good cleaning. As you say, the replacement tuners suck. Remove them and fill all holes with glue and toothpicks. Clean and let dry. Re-install proper tuners. Your done. Ready for sale.

 

It is a nice-looking Standard [thumbup]

 

 

 

 

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Seems logical^

 

But I've neever done that, it'll be very hard I assume to find the proper tuner for a rare guitar (that probably gets a lot of hate considering people try to do this with deluxes and it's pretty nasty to do to a guitar)

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So I bought this guitar off my friends dad that passed away and I had been wanting to restore it (get it in the best playing condition) and now I have a baby coming and am trying to get the most out of it if I'm going to let it go, it's old, it appears to have his name written into it (in pen?) the wood isn't carved from it just indented....looking for help and guidance considering this is the best forum for that on a restoration to put it in the best selling condition. I know it's been refretted, I can see they also installed the tuners bad because one of them is uneven, and one of them I was gently tightening the screw and the head of the screw just popped off (see pic) and the screen itself is still inside the hole. I know I'm a beginner and noob but I think my intentions are simple and wish to borrow some wisdom to get this guitar where I need it to be.

 

Any help helps

 

Thanks!

 

 

Let me know if ya want to sell..

 

 

could not get the images to work so heres a link

http://s104.photobuc.../library/guitar

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...it'll be very hard I assume to find the proper tuner for a rare guitar ...

 

There is nothing RARE, or VINTAGE, about this guitar. It is a Norlin era 1975 production model Les Paul Standard. It is an early model of thousands that were built just like it. From 1975 through 1978 Gibson shipped out almost 7000 of these guitars, although this one IS one of the first 25.

 

As for machine heads, the originals were "Gibson Deluxe", double line, double ring, plastic keystone button tuners made by Kluson.

 

Here's the tuners on mine:

2327165392_f5f563319b_o.jpg

 

They were simply Kluson Deluxe, double line, double ring tuners Gibson had them with make with their name on them. Tuners of this style are readily available, and very inexpensive:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Kluson-NICKEL-PEARL-3x3-TUNERS-for-Gibson-Vintage-Double-Ring-SD90SLN-DRSL-/141510120617?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f2a914a9

 

Don't get too excited about sending the kids to college on the proceeds from selling this guitar. Average selling price on fine examples in original condition is around $2000.

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Well I didn't know the above, to the naive I'm sure something saying deluxe and standard at the same time could give a Idea of rare, and I would consider it vintage, it may not be from the 30s but it's still 40 years old.

 

And I'm not trying to send any children to college just have some bills, I don't think this is some magical wooden gift to the earth I just thinks it's an old guitar that plays great and has more value in it then sitting around a house, and the eBay listing for the exact same guitar in Mint condition (I'm well aware it isn't) sold on eBay for $4800

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261456196614

 

Obviously I'm not going to get near that but I think once I clean it up and put the original tuners on I should be able to get a little more than 2000

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and the eBay listing for the exact same guitar in Mint condition (I'm well aware it isn't) sold on eBay for $4800

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261456196614

 

No it didn't!

 

It was advertised for $4800 and sold for "Best Offer Accepted". These BOA selling prices are NOT published by e-bay, and there is NO way to know what this guitar actually sold for. Besides the fact that from what I saw in the e-bay ad, there are a few reality checks required.

 

From the "Detailed Item Info" section:

1. There were no "figured top" 1975 LPS's

2. There were no "'57 Classic" humbuckers in 1975.

 

This is enough for me to question EVERYTHING stated in the ad.

 

And as the ad is a year old, no photos were accessible. This is NOT how you pull up "comps" for the value of anything.

 

I'm not trying to be a ****, I'm just trying to educate!

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No it didn't!

 

It was advertised for $4800 and sold for "Best Offer Accepted". These BOA selling prices are NOT published by e-bay, and there is NO way to know what this guitar actually sold for. Besides the fact that from what I saw in the e-bay ad, there are a few reality checks required.

 

From the "Detailed Item Info" section:

1. There were no "figured top" 1975 LPS's

2. There were no "'57 Classic" humbuckers in 1975.

 

This is enough for me to question EVERYTHING stated in the ad.

 

And as the ad is a year old, no photos were accessible. This is NOT how you pull up "comps" for the value of anything.

 

I'm not trying to be a ****, I'm just trying to educate!

 

Did not see the or best offer on it.

I had that link from when I bought this guitar it was just the most similar.

I've seen a few others, isn't a 1975 standard lp in fair condition worth more than $2000? Give or take

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first off for the record, I never said anything about this being modified. I found it peculiar that it was stamped as a deluxe but had regular humbuckers.

The route looked too clean to me to be a modification. Thanks Larry for the history on this.

 

 

 

about the selling price, probably not.

 

I would just take what Larry said and bank on it.

 

The Mid 70s gibsons, as Larry mentioned are from the Norlin era. do some googling on that and you will learn more about it. In summary not the best years for Gibson guitars in general,

 

now before some one fires up the flame throwers, I'm NOT saying they were all junk, I had a 73 Deluxe, -- with mini humbuckers -- there was really nothing bad about it.

 

But the fact remains that ~/+ $4k for something like what you have is just not reality unless it was 100% totally stock w/OHSC, had all the case candy and was dead nuts mint. and even with that, who knows what it would fetch. just remember that it is not rare at all. it's a 40 year old production line Gibson, at a time when they were making thousands of them a year - (again, look at the norlin era history, you may find it interesting.)

 

if you really wanted to run it down for what the value might be, you could have it appraised. A place like Elderly Music can do that for you, but they don't do it for free. I'm not sure I'd would go to that trouble in this instance.

 

 

IMHO, a selling price of ~/+ $2000 for a guitar that back in '75 cost around $500 isn't anything to snort at.

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Don't get too excited about sending the kids to college on the proceeds from selling this guitar. Average selling price on fine examples in original condition is around $2000.

 

 

 

Obviously I'm not going to get near that but I think once I clean it up and put the original tuners on I should be able to get a little more than 2000

L5LARRY is what I would consider, an expert. If I were buying or selling a guitar, I would rely on his opinion as much as anyone else's I know.

 

Personally, I have not kept up on prices in quite a while, but up until 5 or 6 years ago, I did. And I have come across a LOT of LP's from this era of all sorts. While I don't think I am more aware than L5LARRY, I think the 2k price is high for these.

 

I understand that guitar prices have gone up some across the board. I also understand that SOME Norlin era Gibby's have gone "up" in price in relation to other used Gibby's. But generally speaking, a guitar from this era has always sold for less than an "average" LP since they were changed back to more roughly original specs and shape.

 

We should keep in mind L5LARRY said "FINE" examples.

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now before some one fires up the flame throwers, I'm NOT saying they were all junk, I had a 73 Deluxe, -- with mini humbuckers -- there was really nothing bad about it.

 

IMHO, a selling price of ~/+ $2000 for a guitar that back in '75 cost around $500 isn't anything to snort at.

There IS a lot cool about these, and lots of fans. Personally, I DID like many of them.

 

In fact, there was a time when I was purposely looking for a pancake body with the 3 piece neck in a goldtop. There are fans out there that appreciate these. What about the sunburst shading of the finish on the neck? Lots think of that as a plus.

 

And the necks on some of these CAN be real buttery.

 

But still, while there ARE fans, we DON'T pay more than they sell for, do we? I'm not going to pay twice as much for something because it's MY opinion it is twice as good as what everyone else thinks. But rather, I expect to pay what the going price is, or move on to someone who is selling for the going price.

 

With many things guitars, especially used and vintage, price does not always reflect quality.

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