Info needed on Gibson 4-Conductor 57 Classic pickups

[MoreCowbell]

Can anyone shed some light on the (new) Gibson 4-Conductor 57 Classic pickups? I'm referring specifically to these pickups: 4-conductor 57 Classic

 

The Gibson web site lists that their output is 8.3 (higher than for the normal, 2-conductor 57 Classic pickups output which is listed at only 7.5). However, I talked with one customer service person at Gibson who said that the normal 2-conductor, and the 4-conductor 57 Classics pickups both were really around 8.0 for the output, and that there was no significant difference between the two in terms of output.

 

The reason for my question is that I want to know if the 4-Conductor 57 Classic pickups have a high enough output to where it would sound good when the coils are split. A low output pickup would sound too weak and too thin (and not be musically useful) when split. Unfortunately, Gibson does not make a 4-conductor version of the 57 "Classic Plus" or I'd be looking in that direction instead.

 

I have an old Carvin SH 225 semi-guitar, which has a ES-335-like body and I wanted to upgrade the pickups. But one of the things I don't want to sacrifice is the usable single-coil tones that I currently get out the Carvin with the stock pickups.

 

Does anyone have experience with this (4-conductor) pickup in split mode?

Does this pickup have enough beef to it (for single coil tones)?

 

Thanks for the help

[stein]

Just my opinion, but to me, there is no reason to ever split coils.

 

1) they NEVER sound as good, or like, an actual single coil pup that sounds good.

 

2) a pup turned down (volume knob) to me, sounds better than using half of the pup.

 

3) better to find a pup that sounds the best, rather than a pup that makes compromises to sound good in split mode.

 

That's mostly my experience.

 

If a guitar has a split mode, great. No harm. Doesn't hurt. Doesn't bother me.

 

But then, also, while I don't have all that much experience with humbuckers, I have found that I think the single conductor ones tend to sound better than the 4 conductor versions. But that might be me splitting hairs.

[MoreCowbell]

Well, I wasn't looking for a philosophical argument about splitting here.

 

I really wanted to get feedback from people who have tried out the 4-Conductor 57 Classic, or are familiar with this pickup....and see what their impressions were, and how the output level compared to other pickups.

[stein]

Well, I wasn't looking for a philosophical argument about splitting here.

 

I really wanted to get feedback from people who have tried out the 4-Conductor 57 Classic, or are familiar with this pickup....and see what their impressions were, and how the output level compared to other pickups.

I thought I was, giving you feedback.

 

No experience with THAT particular pup in one of MY guitars, but I am familiar with it, as well as other humbuckers of similar sound and output. And I have tried a number of guitars with coil splitting, and a few with those particular pups, (I think...but to be accurate, I can't be sure they weren't another in the newer Gibby's, as there is some overlap of the '57 classic and the Burstbucker stuff). To be sure, I have tried, and liked the '57 classic.

 

Therefore, my answer of no, they likely don't sound all that great split (to me). With an explanation.

 

I would go a little further, in saying that (to me), the pups that SEEM to sound the best when split are some of the Dimarzio's, but also, these are generally hotter, and I am not convinced that the hotter pups sound better than the classic spec Gibby humbucker. But to be fair, many, if not most of that particular brand makes pups for more specific things...distinctive tones, particular in the distorted realm.

 

While I can't, and won't, say if the '57 classic sounds better than, say a Burstbucker 2 when split, I am going to make a guess that very, very few have done a comparism judging the quality of the split sound.

 

To spite MY opinions here, I don't think it's a bad question. Might be, the only way to answer it is to try it yourself.

 

Now, if I had to guess, if making an "upgrade" to your Carvin by swapping the pups for the '57 classic, AND you like the split more of the Carvin pups, you are more likely to find a loss in quality of one mode while improving the other.

[billymagnum]

have have the split option on my LP with 57s. when playing clean, i use the neck in split mode 99% of the time. to the most sensitive strat-tone aficionados' ears, no they don't sound exactly like single coils and maybe they never can but they are capable of really beautiful shimmery goodness. with my boost engaged, i can get an almost piezo-like clean tone. makes me think of "nothing else matters" instantly. i very rarely split the bridge unless its in conjunction with the neck. all together i love having the option on these pickups which are really impressive. with the splitting, tone knobs, volume, and boost switch they are able to handle everything i throw at them from mellow jazz to Dimebag-zone. So versatile. I completely happy with them and wouldn't dream of taking them out of my LP.

[capmaster]

There came several 4-conductor Gibson humbuckers stock with my guitars:

- Burstbuckers 1 & 2 splittable (Les Paul Standard Quilt K 2011),

- Burstbuckers Pro N & B (reverse wound/reverse polarity) capacitor splittable and with polarity (falsely aka phase) option (Les Paul Standard 2012),

- 490R & 498T capacitor splittable (L6S 2011),

- 496R & 498T with parallel options (Alex Lifeson Les Paul Axcess),

- a pair of '57 Classics with split and polarity (falsely aka phase) options (Frank Zappa "Roxy" SG),

- '57 Classic AND '57 Classic Plus (!) with parallel options (Epiphone Les Paul 1960 Tribute Plus).

 

I wouldn't want to miss the split sounds. My Gibsons and my Epiphone with split options get much more playing time than than those without. No problems with output levels. All those pickups do their jobs very nicely, in series, parallel, pure split and capacitor split modes. When split, their sound is similar to that of a Fender-style pickup but somewhat cleaner and smoother due to the bar magnets.

 

Hope this helps.

[Sabredog]

Well, I wasn't looking for a philosophical argument about splitting here.

 

I really wanted to get feedback from people who have tried out the 4-Conductor 57 Classic, or are familiar with this pickup....and see what their impressions were, and how the output level compared to other pickups.

 

I have a 2015 Les Paul classic with the 57 super 57 classic neck,

 

The split coil sounds are very useful they sound similar to a strat, I think better players understand how to change the gain settings on their amps,

 

The single coil settings are lower output, So I increase the volume on my amplifier a little bit, and then balance just the right amount of gain,I think most people understand that you just lost one set of magnets When you split,and the magnets are what create the voltage signal so of course it's going to be lower output.

 

but what you gain is the string attack, you get to hear more of the percussive focused sound of the string, which is what Eric Clapton and other strat players like,

so to have that flexibility in a Les Paul just fantastic I typically lower the gain to play a slightly different genre of music.

That's why you split a coil.

I see guys split the coil then they turn up the distortion to compensate for the lower volume which compresses the sound and just creates a weak sounding humbucker, then they complain that the split coil doesn't sound like a humbucker.

it creates a slightly different EQ and less bass and more percussive attack, use it to make some beautiful sounds, listen to some Jimi Hendrix play some of those notes.

sdog

[Sabredog]

have have the split option on my LP with 57s. when playing clean, i use the neck in split mode 99% of the time. to the most sensitive strat-tone aficionados' ears, no they don't sound exactly like single coils and maybe they never can but they are capable of really beautiful shimmery goodness. with my boost engaged, i can get an almost piezo-like clean tone. makes me think of "nothing else matters" instantly. i very rarely split the bridge unless its in conjunction with the neck. all together i love having the option on these pickups which are really impressive. with the splitting, tone knobs, volume, and boost switch they are able to handle everything i throw at them from mellow jazz to Dimebag-zone. So versatile. I completely happy with them and wouldn't dream of taking them out of my LP.

 

good summary, I am always playing around with the split because the sounds do sound very interesting.

 

You mentioned the double split, which I'm starting to think is out of phase what you know about that.

 

When when I put the switch in the middle position and split the neck and the bridge ARE THE 2 COILS OUT OF PHASE ?

 

It certainly sounds like it to my ear , I really am starting to like that sound, very interesting as you slowly dial-up the mid level crunch distortion it get some really nice tones especially when you EQ it properly

but the really cool thing is how much you can change the sound with the volume knobs as you slowlly dial out one single coil the tones really responsive.

 

sdog

[capmaster]

...

When when I put the switch in the middle position and split the neck and the bridge ARE THE 2 COILS OUT OF PHASE ?

...

sdog

They are not. An additional polarity aka incorrectly "phase" switch is required for that. In many cases this switch also flips from one coil to the other when split mode is engaged. This makes reverse wound/reverse polarity operation possible.

 

As an example, when splitting the Classic'57 pickups of a Frank Zappa "Roxy" SG, the slug coil of the neck pickup and the screw coil of the bridge pickup are active. Additional change of polarity or "phase" will activate the neck pickup's screw coil with reversed coil wires. Thus both the split "up phase" and "down phase" combinations are humbucking. A really sophisticated design by Frank.

 

Reverse polarity pickups like a set of Gibson Burstbucker Pros allow for using both the screw coils when "up phase" and one screw and slug coil each in "down phase" operation. Using a pair of "phase switches" further enables selecting both the slug coils respectively the reverse slug and screw coil combination. And, of course, one can select between the coils when using one pickup alone. I'm considering a retrofit of my double tri-sound equipped Ibanez Artist, or modding and retrofitting of my LP Standard Quilt. The latter has a non-humbucking split using both the screw coils of the same wound/same polarity BurstBuckers 1 & 2.

 

No matter what people say, there is no such thing as a real "phase reverse" of any signal. "Out of phase signals" or OOPS just means changing the polarity of one of them. The resulting interferences will range from -180° to +180° in both polarity positions, not -180° only as the term might suggest. Only identical signals with identical levels will cancel out completely through this. There is no technical device allowing for reversing phase of a real existing signal anyhow close to real time. I also don't know of any digital program doing this. Reversing phase takes a crazy effort and is absolutely useless, at least in audio applications.

[Sabredog]

They are not. An additional polarity aka incorrectly "phase" switch is required for that. In many cases this switch also flips from one coil to the other when split mode is engaged. This makes reverse wound/reverse polarity

 

Reverse polarity pickups like a set of Gibson Burstbucker Pros allow for using both the screw coils when "up phase" and one screw and slug coil each in "down phase" operation. Using a pair of "phase switches" further enables selecting both the slug coils respectively the reverse slug and screw coil combination. And, of course, one can select between the coils when using one pickup alone. I'm considering a retrofit of my double tri-sound equipped Ibanez Artist, or modding and retrofitting of my LP Standard Quilt. The latter has a non-humbucking split using both the screw coils of the same wound/same polarity BurstBuckers 1 & 2.

 

so the "split" is that the 2 slug coils are what's operating on my Les Paul that seems to be reverse polarity? it is unique a tone like peter green tone. seems like im getting some canceling.

 

Sdog

 

 

 

 

[Bluenotesharp]

@ Capmaster.......

    As a pro Audio Engineer since the 80’s , I can unequivocally attest that we all frequently use phase reversal during the recording process. 
On every single six or seven figure price tag console,  every channel comes with a true phase reversal switch so it’s a false statement to say it’s not useful in audio. 
there are many drum miking techniques and musical harmonic generation through phase manipulation of the signal. This would apply to any guitar or miked source. Just to clear this up. 
 
soooo.... I just installed the gold 57 & 57+ in a 2012  ES 335 replacing the T and R  490’s .
   Wow !!! Great clearer bell like but thick tone straight out playing through a twin reverb everything at 12 o’clock reverb on 7

 The plus being a little hotter (I measured 8.0) the neck pickup classic reads  7.5 ....  since I have a black w/ gold hardware model they look fantastic (but so do the chrome ones) I couldn’t be happier overall. These are new true PAF pups designed after the original 53 Seth Lover designed Humbuckers but slightly overwound thus the new patent ..... 

I have a 59 Melody maker with an upgraded 1960 Seth Lover double cream pup. I had no idea that my luthier friend had used an “old” Gibson pickup when he serviced my axe in the late 60’s . It’s amazing that an old used pickup has become one of the holy grails of pickup design.....  this one measures 7.7   right between the classic 57 readings.   

To conclude : I don’t have the split coil option like some of the newer 335’s come , but I wish I did. 
I may add the push pull coil split pots and try it after reading the other reviews but not yet. I’m thoroughly enjoying them just as they are now. 
 

happy music making 

DS