duluthdan Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Trundled my j-50 over mountain passes and around freeway closures, 3 1/2 hours one way to the Luthier. Needed to install the bone saddle insert for the ADJ bridge, cut the nut slots deeper, or replace, look at the frets, give it a once over. Good news is that the bone saddle is now installed, took a bit of tweaking and shaping to get it to fit. The nut was Nylon !!! Replaced with a nicely aged piece of bone. While there I had him age the tuners and tuner buttons. These were replacements, stark white and shiny chrome, which looked way out of place. Gave the tuners and buttons a nice bath in his secret etching solution of acid and stain. the tuners came out nicely - yellowed the white, and knocked that shiny chrome way down. Pics below - first is after, last is before. The tone, to me, is not very different from what it was before the bone installs. Okay, now the bad news. Action is set as low as it will go - 8/64ths on the low E, and 6/64ths on the high E. Might be okay for a flat picker, but I'm a quiet finger picker/strummer. The action is a the top of my comfortable range. My J-45 is at 6/64ths, and 4/64ths. Doesn't feel like razor blades, but close. The guitar needs a neck re-set. and along with it, a complete fret job and fret planing to avoid that finger extension hump once the angle is changed. Estimate is $1,000. This reinforces my original position that I have no business dipping my toe into "Vintage". Still - its fun to play - but even capped up, you can tell the action is pretty "proud". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fp Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Dan, so how tall is the new saddle now ? A neck reset and a refret at $1000 sounds a few hundred to high to me. Do you have a picture of the new saddle height ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Been there done that….lol….sorry to hear……might try to use lighter gauge strings….that can lower the action a little…also using capo automatically lowers the action……good luck Dan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Wow...you're lousy with J-45's. Do they sound similar? Maybe sell the blonde and buy a smaller easier player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Wow...you're lousy with J-45's. Do they sound similar? Maybe sell the blonde and buy a smaller easier player. I wish I knew how to do a multi recording/video thing. These 3 slopes do indeed sound different, and I like them all. The J-45 Legend has a rather thick round deepness to the sound, the J-45 TV ha a nice raw edginess to it that can be sweetened. The J-50 has a rather crisp tendency to it, takes strumming with a thick pick very well. I will take the J-50 up to the Homecoming in Montana and see what the consensus is - lots of knowledge fills those rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 ……might try to use lighter gauge strings….that can lower the action a little…also using capo automatically lowers the action…… Blasphemy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 What is it like to play with that capo on it? Still too high, Dan? Back it goes - worth getting the neck right. Ha Ha! Too late she cried....On my Martin CEO7, the tuners are Golden Age Restoration - 'relic'd': the buttons are ivory finish (plastic) instead of bright white and the metal is scruffed up. I may get some put on my old Gibson L-0 instead of the shiny Klusons I just got. http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Guitar_and_Solid_Peghead/Golden_Age_Restoration_Guitar_Tuners_3and3.html They have the strip versions, but the pic makes the buttons look a bit white so I put the other link first.....: http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Guitar_and_Solid_Peghead/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Solid_Peghead_Guitar_with_Scallop-end.html BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Trundled my j-50 over mountain passes and around freeway closures, 3 1/2 hours one way to the Luthier. Needed to install the bone saddle insert for the ADJ bridge, cut the nut slots deeper, or replace, look at the frets, give it a once over. Good news is that the bone saddle is now installed, took a bit of tweaking and shaping to get it to fit. The nut was Nylon !!! Replaced with a nicely aged piece of bone. While there I had him age the tuners and tuner buttons. These were replacements, stark white and shiny chrome, which looked way out of place. Gave the tuners and buttons a nice bath in his secret etching solution of acid and stain. the tuners came out nicely - yellowed the white, and knocked that shiny chrome way down. Pics below - first is after, last is before. The tone, to me, is not very different from what it was before the bone installs. Okay, now the bad news. Action is set as low as it will go - 8/64ths on the low E, and 6/64ths on the high E. Might be okay for a flat picker, but I'm a quiet finger picker/strummer. The action is a the top of my comfortable range. My J-45 is at 6/64ths, and 4/64ths. Doesn't feel like razor blades, but close. The guitar needs a neck re-set. and along with it, a complete fret job and fret planing to avoid that finger extension hump once the angle is changed. Estimate is $1,000. This reinforces my original position that I have no business dipping my toe into "Vintage". Still - its fun to play - but even capped up, you can tell the action is pretty "proud". Darn Dan! Some folks just don,t get it on with Vintage.....I think you always thought that!? Best of luck to you. Did you indeed, drive 3.5 hours to the luthier and then 'watch' as he did these procedures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Darn Dan! Some folks just don,t get it on with Vintage.....I think you always thought that!? Best of luck to you. Did you indeed, drive 3.5 hours to the luthier and then 'watch' as he did these procedures? Good lord no. I am not one for operating rooms, I would cringe and weep. Did a restore of the chewed up bridge plate - using maple plugs, I'll try to get a pic in awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 A neck reset and a refret at $1000 sounds a few hundred to high to me. I was thinking the same thing. I had one of the top guys in the business do this for me, and I think it was a bit less... Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Ok, here's the maple plugs, compared to what it was. The cost estimate is what it is. There will be a bit of planing required here too, in addition to all new frets with the re-set. You guys are thinking post-war prices right? This time, I will just ship him the guitar, and run down and back in a day to pick it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 It will be worth it... Old wood and all that. I have spent a grand on worse for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splake Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Agreed with I have been stung once or twice before, once on a 67 - J 50. Like old cars dude, that is the chance you take and sometimes you gotta buck up and pay. Stick with vintage man. Many of the The new ones, although sound stellar. They are soul less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Look at it this way. You may have just joined the "I Ended Up Putting More Into a Guitar Than it was Worth Club." I have been a proud member for decades. Funny thing is that while folks may scratch their head and mumble something about me being on puppy chow, I have never once regretted it. Those guitars bring a smile to my face whenever I play them. Plus, if you spend enough time with "Fixer Uppers" it tends to all come out in the wash. I have a couple that would have run me maybe three to four times what I have in them had I stumbled across them in good to go condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 The thing to remember is that you never come out on the negative side if you don't sell it. I have one like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Sorry to hear that diagnosis, Dan. But as others have suggested that estimate is more than a bit steep. Luthiers on the country's short list of vintage Gibson & Martin repair people do a reset for $450. Refret, bound or unbound neck, $250. This includes planing of the fretboard. The tuners came out nice, btw. And appreciate your honest assessment that you didn't notice much difference in tone in going to the bone saddle. As others with ADJ experience have previously said, maybe the hardware and contact points may not be letting the bone saddle give it's maximum effect. Another thing to keep in mind is our stewardship of these older guitars; doing what's best for them for while we have them, and for those who will make music with them when we're gone. We don't plant a tree for today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 That is a shame. Did you have a chance to play this guitar before you bought it? I am still very happy with my 1965 J-50 ADJ that I bought about the same time as your 1957. Was planning to take it to the luthier for a setup, but have gotten used to the way it plays and sounds so I'm just going to leave well enough alone. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Dan, Sometimes you can work with the truss rod and nut and get the guitar in real good playing condition from the 1st to the 7th fret which may suite your style. A good luthier can take car of this or if you were close enough I would do it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Thanks for the suggestions. Look at the picture below. This adjustable saddle is as low as itr can go. Note the rather shallow break-angle. Also note the ball-end sting wing=dings. Before the bridge plate restoration, these windings did tend to want to creep up onto the saddle. The Curt Mangan strings, I believe, may have slightly longer windings than some other brands. Now that the plate restore is done, it really is, I suppose, time for this guitars first neck re-set. I think I bought this guitar right - similar models are listing for between $4,500 and $6,000 on GBase, and I bought in the low 3's, so I suppose after all is said and done, the invested capital into this guitar is not in the substantial negative territory, and it does have a great tone - in spite of the hardware. So. I will probably box this up and send it away for the work to be done. I did have a few days grace period, but it sounded s good, and I thought at first it was low worn frets, the straight edge test came out spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Around here 1955-1959 Gibson J-45/50/SJs generally sell in the $4K range, give or take a couple of hundred bucks. Reverb puts an estimate of $3200 to $4800 on a similar year J-45. But all in all it sounds like you will about break even which ain't too shabby. I am not really sure if the 1950s guitars with the ADJ Bridges are the exact same as later ones but the other thing that could come into play is that Gibson tended to overset the necks on guitars in the 1960s. This is why you often saw these guitars with saddles that looked like they were a mile high. If so, it might be that the repair guy is contemplating having to put some shims under the heel to bring the neck back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I am not really sure if the 1950s guitars with the ADJ Bridges are the exact same as later ones but the other thing that could come into play is that Gibson tended to overset the necks on guitars in the 1960s. This is why you often saw these guitars with saddles that looked like they were a mile high. That has been my experience as well, but in this case, it looks like the saddle is cranked all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorick Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Hi Dan, I feel your pain. But if the guitar sounds and feels right, you'll likely forget the sting of a reset after a while. For one thing, you're getting new frets, so think of that as "routine maintenance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Wash it all out of your head and enjoy the guitar for what it is. The vintage experience is filled with buyer's remorse and player's joy sometimes. The original price you paid is pretty high anyway so jump in and play the crap out of it for fun. I'd swap those plastic bridgepins out for bone though. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Camel-High-Density-Bone-Acoustic-Guitar-Bridge-Pin-String-Peg-Plain/141197938956?_trksid=p2059210.c100148.m2813&_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140127102845%26meid%3D801b8c1fa4524ebd8f0c8030fca99a4e%26pid%3D100148%26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 That has been my experience as well, but in this case, it looks like the saddle is cranked all the way down. Exactly. That would make it seem that the neck angle is way out of kilter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splake Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Wash it all out of your head and enjoy the guitar for what it is. The vintage experience is filled with buyer's remorse and player's joy sometimes. The original price you paid is pretty high anyway so jump in and play the crap out of it for fun. I'd swap those plastic bridgepins out for bone though. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Camel-High-Density-Bone-Acoustic-Guitar-Bridge-Pin-String-Peg-Plain/141197938956?_trksid=p2059210.c100148.m2813&_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140127102845%26meid%3D801b8c1fa4524ebd8f0c8030fca99a4e%26pid%3D100148%26 This is probably the smartest thing I have read on this forum yet. So True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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