Fret buzz troubleshooting

[btoth76]

Hello!

 

After creating a thread on fret levelling and dressing, I thought it would be useful to start another thread on evaluating the condition of frets and other hardware components, which if fail, will cause buzzing and rattling of strings.

 

Fret buzz is, - probably - the most annoying problem each and every guitar player will face sooner or later. I would like to give a short presentation on how to trace the source of the buzzing or rattling issues.

 

What is a fret buzz, to begin with?

 

Very simply, it's when a string's vibration is affected by an object, that shouldn't affect it. Normally, You want the string to vibrate between the two anchoring points:

 

1.) Between the nut and the bridge - open string played.

2.) Between a fret and the bridge.

 

So, if there is something wrong with anchoring points, and/or the string is incorrectly fretted by the player's finger, fret buzz will occur. It will also occur, when the vibrating string hits a fret - it should not!

 

Let's go through these possibilities...

[btoth76]

When changing strings, it's a good time to check the condition of a couple of things. Especially, if You aren't happy with the instrument.

 

For this presentation, I will use my 1978 Gibson Les Paul Recording. It's a wonderful instrument with very comfortable neck, and a fretboard with very nice, low action. But it recently started to buzz on the E6 string.

 

These are the tools You need:

 

 

A fretboard rocker, a straight-edge (preferably a notched one), a piece of paper and a pen. Also, when You remove the strings, keep a piece of each one. Mark them with their sizes - they can be useful, if You don't have feeler gauges!

 

...

[btoth76]

Prior to removing the strings, play all the open strings. Do they buzz, played unfretted?

 

If so, play the first fret. If it's not buzzing anymore, You have a nut problem. Press the string down at the third fret with normal playing pressure:

 

 

You should have minimum 0.010" of clearance between the first fret and the fretted string. If it's below, the nut groove has been worn down, or poorly cut before. Replace the nut, and have the string grooves properly cut.

 

On my guitar, the clearance is 0.014", which is OK. However, if it's too high it would result dissonant chords and notes, in the first few positions, as You need to push the strings too much to fret them properly. In fact, with high nut, when a note is fretted, it's like bending it too meanwhile.

 

Even, if the clearance is OK, we still can't disclose the nut as the culprit of fret buzz - just as in this case...

[btoth76]

Check how the strings sit in the nut grooves.

 

The groove should be as wide as the string's diameter, and as deep as the string's radius at the inner edge of nut (towards the fretboard).

 

On my guitar, the slot of the low-E is too wide!

 

 

I have been using 10-46s on this guitar since I've bought it, however the previous owner was using 10-49s! So the grooves were cut accordingly! (That's why the luthier asks about what gauges are You using when You take the guitar for a setup).

 

Obviously, grooves wear - just like every other part on Your guitar that is exposed to string vibration! So check Your bridge the same way:

 

 

What has been said about the nut grooves is also true for the bridge saddles. The slots should be as wide as the string's diameter. It's depth, as the string's radius.

 

As You can see, the bridge slot on the picture is too wide for a 0.046" string.

 

...

[btoth76]

While at the bridge, check it for loose parts! Can You move the saddles back-and-forth with Your fingers, or sideways? You should not be able to! It can cause rattle, and loss of sustain.

 

 

Sometimes, the culprit of rattling can be any other part on the guitar. Not necessarily only those which are parts of the string suspension or intonation. A loose pickguard, or a pickup. Especially the P-90s can be too loosely fitted in their cavities. Check these components too:

 

 

If You suspect any of these parts being the cause of unwanted noises, try to fix them with a piece of paper, and test play Your instrument.

 

...

[btoth76]

Fretboard!

 

Visually inspect the frets. Are there any areas on the fingerboard where frets became flat? Are there any grooves on the fret surface below the strings, like that?

 

 

Also check all the frets for lifting. Inspect the frets from the sides. Are there any gaps between any of them and the surface of the fretboard? If so, they should be corrected.

 

These symptoms should be all taken into account when considering a fret levelling.

 

...

[btoth76]

To check the condition of the frets, first set the neck straight:

 

 

If it leans forward (relief) turn the truss rod nut clockwise to tighten the rod. If it bows back, - normally should not happen, though - release the tension by turning the nut counter-clockwise.

 

Turn the rod in 1/8th of a turn increments. The rod reacts immediately to the adjustments, however it takes some time until the neck settles. Wait approximately 10-15 minutes between adjustments. Normally, a quarter turn should be enough to set the neck straight. If it requires much more, there is a problem. Don't risk Your instrument, take it to a pro luthier, in that case. You can eventually break the rod with overtightening the nut!

 

...

[btoth76]

With the neck straight, check whether the frets are in level.

 

At proper lightening conditions, place the straight-edge over the frets:

 

 

Aim a lamp at the fretboard, and look for gaps between the straight-edge and the frets.

 

If You see that the frets are worn in spots: couple of worn ones next to each other here, some others at another point of the fretboard, it wise to level the entire fretboard.

 

But to get a more accurate picture on the condition of the fretboard, use a fretboard rocker. Place the rocker on the first three frets and rock it. If it makes a knocking sound, the first, and/or the third fret is lower than the second. Place the rocker a fret higher, covering the frets 2-3-4. Rock it. Do it all along the entire fretboard, for all the strings.

 

 

Make notes. Write down the number of the low frets:

 

 

As, You can see, my Recording has a low spot at 5th-6th fret, and a wider worn area at the higher frets. In this case, levelling is the only way to breath new life into the fretboard.

 

The process is described in details here: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/118680-fret-levelling-and-dressing/

 

...

[btoth76]

One thing important to note here.

 

If the rocker knocks at the very end of the fretboard, it is not necessarily a sign of a problem.

 

 

Some players (and luthiers) prefer to step the last few frets! A slight slope there, helps getting more sustain with low actions. Did You ever notice, when making a bend at around 19th-22nd fret, the note decays too quickly? Especially, if You prefer super-low string height? This is how to achieve those wonderful John Sykes vibratoes at last frets.

 

Just make sure these sloped frets are each a bit lower than the one below. Otherwise, it won't work.

 

...

[kidblast]

Hi Bence

 

 

Another good post from ya on this topic. One thing that I have found, not sure if you have as well, but often times, this requires two passes. The first pass will sometimes actually create "new" frets that need to be re-dressed (depending on the starting condition of the frets).

 

The second pass requires removing far less fret wire.

 

The the last step for me, is to polish all frets with 0000 steel wool.

 

I go a little nuts with taping off the body too. Covering all pickups first, then I will use a few pieces of paper towels taped together, and I will loosely cover the entire body, been using blue painters tape for that, plus for covering the fretboard, underneath the fret guards.

 

It's all time consuming, it's a job for a "patient person" but the results can be significant.

[btoth76]

Hello Ray!

 

You are correct - of course.

 

But this thread is supposed to be about evaluation only. I will not cover the repair processes in detail - just general thoughts. That's is why I didn't cover the delicate components of the guitar. Nor, I will talk about fret dressing this time. It's rather about the causes and what to consider when different kind of problems met.

 

I have noticed that about levelling. Often it needs too passes - right! Weird, but true. As far as the polishing is concerned, there are many approaches I've seen or readed about. Personally, I am fine with finishing off with 2500-grit polishing paper.

 

Cheers... Bence

[kidblast]

yes of course, I didn't want to hijack your post, just was curious if you noted that "second" pass thing.

 

I think I need to get myself to an auto parts store to see what's available. most of the home goods stores around here have nothing over 300 grit. probably could order inline too.

[btoth76]

yes of course, I didn't want to hijack your post, just was curious if you noted that "second" pass thing.

 

I think I need to get myself to an auto parts store to see what's available. most of the home goods stores around here have nothing over 300 grit. probably could order inline too.

 

I had to do the L6S and the Studio 50s Tribute twice to get them correct. Now I am aware of this, and do not restring instruments immediately. An accurate, and careful checking with the fretboard rocker is highly recommended after levelling process. It can be exhausting, but it's critical.

 

I have problems finding polishing papers. Locally, noone I have asked have heard about 2500+ grits! Not even 3M. However, Micro-Mesh (3000 to 12000 grits) are good to have for finish repairs. I am very happy - so to say - that I have to order them from the USA. :D

 

Cheers... Bence

[kidblast]

yea same here even to get 400 grit, I had to search it out.

 

and yes,, it can be a process that takes a lot of time, more than you would think.

 

I find that it takes me a few hours, (3 or 4) start to finish.

[btoth76]

Spot repairs.

 

If the rocker knocks at one fret only. Let say, it makes a sound while it's over frets 5-6-7, and 7-8-9. Then, suspect the 7th fret has raised. It is very unlikely to have just one worn fret stand on it's own. The fretboard usually gets worn in spots, areas. Inspect the fret - as described above. It might be needed to hammered back.

 

But, You might find eventually, that the first few frets are in level, than suddenly the rocker knocks at one fret, then it won't for the rest of the frets. It means, the guitar wasn't played much in the first few positions, but the rest of fretboard is more or less uniformly worn. It usually happens to me. Lead players, who doesn't play chords so often can find this.

 

Let's say, the rocker knocks laid over frets 2-3-4, but above, it doesn't. Then, You can correct this by spot levelling: basically, filing all the frets between the nut and the 4th fret down. Make sure they are all in level. File a little, check with the rocker often! Dress the lowered frets after.

 

 

If it happens, - let's say - at fret number 10, consider levelling the entire board, again. Use Your common sense. Spot levelling so many files is too exhausting.

 

Rhythm players, - who strum chords in the first few positions often, usually have grooved frets.

 

I hope it helped!

 

Good luck... Bence

[btoth76]

Assumptions.

 

Often fret buzz is the result of movement of the neck. It's wood, so it reacts to changes of climatic conditions. Normally, a neck that has been set straight at set up, will have a slight relief when stringed up. If it's not, adjust the truss rod. However note, adding relief raises action! Adjust the bridge to achieve comfortable string height. Every adjustment has effect on the rest of the components of the string suspension.

 

To put it very, very simple: when You can't achieve a comfortable string height without buzzing whatever You do, the time has come to check whether the frets are in level (meanwhile, the parts of the string suspension too!). Probably, the fretboard has got worn beyond the point where You can correct buzzing issues with raising the action without compromising playing comfort at the same time. Or the nut, bridge slots got worn out.

 

Nut, bridge, frets and loose components can cause buzzes and rattling.

 

In the case of the Recording, the nut and bridge grooves were the main causes of the buzzing. Even though, the frets are worn to the point where it would be necessary to level them, after stringing it up with strings that fit the nut and bridge slots perfectly, the buzz is gone! Of course, to compensate for the fret wear, I had to raise the action a bit. It still plays comfortable, so I decided not to level this time. But very soon, I will have to.

 

Cheers... Bence

[DBRUCE]

Hello!

 

After creating a thread on fret levelling and dressing, I thought it would be useful to start another thread on evaluating the condition of frets and other hardware components, which if fail, will cause buzzing and rattling of strings.

 

Fret buzz is, - probably - the most annoying problem each and every guitar player will face sooner or later. I would like to give a short presentation on how to trace the source of the buzzing or rattling issues.

 

What is a fret buzz, to begin with?

 

Very simply, it's when a string's vibration is affected by an object, that shouldn't affect it. Normally, You want the string to vibrate between the two anchoring points:

 

1.) Between the nut and the bridge - open string played.

2.) Between a fret and the bridge.

 

So, if there is something wrong with anchoring points, and/or the string is incorrectly fretted by the player's finger, fret buzz will occur. It will also occur, when the vibrating string hits a fret - it should not!

 

Let's go through these possibilities...

 

Hello, Issue is E6 and G buzz "open" not fretted. This and 3 rocking frets after just having Dress, crown, an polish done. E6 sitting at .012 at 7th fret

[btoth76]

Hello!

 

Considering You have a rather high action, I suspect the nut primarily. Did You check the action at the first fret while fretting the third? The condition of nut slot? See post #3 and #4.

 

Good luck... Bence