nikonian Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hi All, I'm hoping to get some thoughts from my fellow Les Paul fans on my current predicament. I purchased one of the 2014 Les Paul Traditional Bigsby Goldtops (comes with the stop tailpiece as well) and when I went to take off the Bigsby and install the stop tail piece, I found the finish to be marked by the felt pads on the Vibramate adapter plate (there were/are other issues but thats immaterial). I returned it to the retailer and they sent me another. While they promised to check the replacement, it also was damaged by the felt pads. The retailer said this is quality issue with Gibson and I have to take it up with them (or I could return the guitar for a refund). I called Gibson yesterday and was told that it could be an issue with the retailer's storage. Either way, he reminded me that nitro cellulose sealer will remain soft and would be susceptable to blemishes, such as from guitar stands. While I pressed the issue as a warranty repair, he kept on steering me to call the retailer and have them send me an instrument what wasn't damaged (which contradicts his own comments). His point was it would be faster than sending back to them - "it would be months before I'd get the guitar back". Deep breath... I guess what I'm looking for here is to see if anyone else has this same problem. I have a very hard time believing this is normal. Thanks for reading this long post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hello and welcome to the Forums! Sad to hear about that. Very disappointing. To be honest, when these guitars came out, that was my very first thought: will the Vibramate/Bigsby unit carve itself into the finish? The nitro finish is too soft to handle the pressure from the back-and-forth rocking vibrato unit. I hope, it gets solved for You quickly. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesh Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hi All, I'm hoping to get some thoughts from my fellow Les Paul fans on my current predicament. I purchased one of the 2014 Les Paul Traditional Bigsby Goldtops (comes with the stop tailpiece as well) and when I went to take off the Bigsby and install the stop tail piece, I found the finish to be marked by the felt pads on the Vibramate adapter plate (there were/are other issues but thats immaterial). I returned it to the retailer and they sent me another. While they promised to check the replacement, it also was damaged by the felt pads. The retailer said this is quality issue with Gibson and I have to take it up with them (or I could return the guitar for a refund). I called Gibson yesterday and was told that it could be an issue with the retailer's storage. Either way, he reminded me that nitro cellulose sealer will remain soft and would be susceptable to blemishes, such as from guitar stands. While I pressed the issue as a warranty repair, he kept on steering me to call the retailer and have them send me an instrument what wasn't damaged (which contradicts his own comments). His point was it would be faster than sending back to them - "it would be months before I'd get the guitar back". Deep breath... I guess what I'm looking for here is to see if anyone else has this same problem. I have a very hard time believing this is normal. Thanks for reading this long post. This is crazy! How can felt pads do this to a finish?! Are they definitely felt; I always thought that the Vibramate pads were rubber or something...are they quite solid to the touch or soft? Hard to believe, even when it is known that the finish is 'soft' in some ways. I'd say take it back to the retailer; they've got a responsibility to sell an undamaged product and satisfy their customer, so I'd get some refund and go for something else, sans Bigsby, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Well, the nature of the nitrocellulose finish. The ****** luthier, - I use to carry my guitars to - impressed the finish with His fingers just by turning in the bridge thumbwheel posts... ...so can You imagine, what the Vibramate can do to it, (regardless of felt or rubber pads installed), under all the pressure it receives from the bar? I am not trying to make a judgement here, just talking about the characteristics of this type of finish. There are things about it, that You should know and being aware of, if You own a Gibson. Cheers... Bence Correction: "not very careful luthier..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 . You probably won't get anywhere with Gibson as warranty caveat #10 says the warranty does not cover "Cracking, discoloration or damage of any sort to the finish or plating for any reason." The draw of the Vibrate is no need to drill holes into the body. I think pressure marks are understandable from a Vibramate installation on a new nitro finish. I'm curious if any other Vibramate owners will post complaints about a similar situation. These Vibramate marks might be on a lot of new Gibson guitars due to the age of the nitro finish when the installation occurred. So if you don't want the guitar, the dealer's refund offer looks like the way to go. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 the instructions actually advise to remove the felt pads... and if you look really closely at a properly installed vibramte/bigsby, the back of the bigsby should not really touch the body, it should ride about ~+/- 1/4" off the tail of the guitar. (a lot depends on where the strap pin is. The only contact points on my les paul with the V7/B7 is on the dogbone where it's mounted and at the tail end where the strap pin hole is, which is covered with a felt material (same sort of stuff that the strap button washers are made from). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 . ^KB - - are you thinking Gibson installed this Vibramate incorrectly? I wonder if this is the way Gibson is doing all their Vibramate installations. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 There is no good way to install a BeegsBee. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 . ^KB - - are you thinking Gibson installed this Vibramate incorrectly? I wonder if this is the way Gibson is doing all their Vibramate installations. . ah! I missed the fact that GIBSON installed this. but anyway,, I'm just a hack,, right what do I know! :) but.. if you look at the instruction sheet that comes with the V7 clearly says "remove the felt pads"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikonian Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hi Everyone, Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have a sinking feeling all of their stock will look like this. Unfortunately, this was one of those "hit and run" limited guitars Gibson did last year, so what's on hand is it. Anyway thanks again! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaicho8888 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Sorry you're disappointed with the impression left by the pad... pressure from using the tremolo (vibrato). FYI, in general, nitro finish takes about a year to hardened. Although today's nitro appear to harden quicker that the early nitro finishes. I know my sixties Gibson had very soft nitro when new. I even have my thumb prints on the neck from playing. Some had the finish on the headstock displaced like thick gel from hanging in music store! If it bothers you and you like to keep the guitar, use a small flat block and sand it carefully with 600-1500 grit and then polish...but wait at least a year to hardened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickC Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Drop-fill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Put the Vibrato back on and love the guitar... won't see the marks.. enjoy the guitar and its sounds not the finish lots of marked up finishes from very loved guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billymagnum Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 its my understanding that anything that touches nitro can affect it. even if there is little or no pressure, something as seemingly harmless as felt can still at the very least discolor the nitro it touches... you may end up getting lucky with finding one without the issue but you may end up sending back a better playing guitar and the blemish-free one could be a lemon. i would do one of the following: -put the bigsby back on and forget it because bigsby's rule -let it go because the blems are effectively under the tail piece (unless i missed something in the photos) -convince whoever i got the blemished guitar from to compensate me for the issue i lucked out with my bigsby/vibramate install. none of the felt makes any actual contact with the top. only around the strap button but it is different with every paul. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 its my understanding that anything that touches nitro can affect it. even if there is little or no pressure, something as seemingly harmless as felt can still at the very least discolor the nitro it touches... ... Hello! Not necessarily. Nitrocellulose finish is very soft when new, and stays like that for long years. Sure, the Bigsby will impress it. Felt, - itself - shouldn't harm it. If so, Your guitar would be in danger even sitting in it's case. Not even all kinds of rubber or plastic will harm it. If You look closely at the cutaway of my 1978 Les Paul Recording, You'll notice a rubber grommet at the end of the fretboard. It's a stock feature for preventing the pickguard touching the top of the instrument. After 37 years it still did not react with the finish. While at pickguards...Do they go into chemical reaction with the finish of Gibson guitars? No, I have never seen such a case. But their edges will eventually impress the finish if the screws are overtightened. Certain materials don't go well with nitrocellulose, but not all are dangerous to it. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajay Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I would return it, and then contact Gibson about buying one with a bridge and tailpiece. Tell them You want the Bigsby in the case. In other words, You want Your VIBRAMATE "on the side". That's the only way to get a cherry finish. Gibson's tester at the end of the line plays the guitar, and as soon as he tests the Bigsby, those pads will rock back and forth a little bit. The only way to avoid it is to not have the Bigsby installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.