gearhead Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Howdy everyone! Haven't been here in a while. Hope everyone is doing fine! Ok, I just bought a Special II, Ebony finish, Serial #P6004723 and it has a sticker that says MADE IN INDONESIA. A sticker that says SPECIAL II. Has the GIBSON truss rod cover. Just says SPECIAL on the front of the headstock. I pulled one of the pickups and they do not say Epiphone like all my other Epi's do. They have SAMSHIN stamped on the base plate, and no adjustable pole pieces, two conductor wiring, open coils (no covers). May have been changed out? The body is laminated, not Mahogany. I was looking to date this thing and was wondering if anyone has seen pickups like these on any of their Special II's. Got a really good deal, gave $30 for the guitar and a Peavey Audition 110 Transtube, a decent stand, a microphone & cable and a guitar cable. Figured I couldn't go wrong. Any info would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 You have a 1996 Les Paul Special II, from the first year of production. I have never seen a "P" serial from Indonesia, however. "P" serials are from the Peerless factory in Korea and did not produce LP Specials. Not sure why your serial reads the way it does, but anything is possible with these 1990's era Epiphones. It could be an early Indonesian serial or an unknown factory. No big deal. The SAMSHIN pickups were used in some models at that time as well. They are of Korean origin and not stamped with any Epiphone logos. For $30 it sounds like you got a great deal and a lot of stuff. Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Thanks for the info RTH! I figured it was an older unit, but didn't know it was first year. I swapped the bridge PU for a 700T I had sitting here. Had to do a little soldering inside the Peavey and cleaned/lubed the controls. Works great! And the mic I got is a Shure HighBall, an older one. Actually doesn't sound too bad. NOT a Pro stage mic, but good for practice and a little recording. Again, thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 No problem! And you cant really go wrong for $30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusonline Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Serial No. P6004723 suggests your guitar was made at Peerless Guitars Co., Ltd. 529-6, Hadan-dong, Saha-gu Busan Korea, April of 1960. Since this is obviously not true I am not sure where the serial came from. The serial number is also not a match for any Epiphone serial number template, other then one that suggests the letter corresponds to a month. Jan = A Feb = B etc. As far as it being made in Indonesia the only OEM I have run across there is PT. SAMICK INDONESIA JL.Perkebunan Desa Kidul Kec. Cileungsi, Kab.Bogor Jawa Barat. Also I do not know of the Special II being made with any pickups other then Epiphone 650r 700t. I hope this helps. I have tried to be sure this information is accurate. However as always you should fact check for yourself. You may see something I missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Can you post a pic of the front and back of the headstock , particularly the stickers on the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusonline Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I agree pics could be very helpful to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Here's pics: And as I said, it does have a laminated (plywood) body. Didn't take a pic of it when I had it apart. Everything looks like original, I didn't see any signs of anything being taken apart, although the pickups may have been swapped. I found a pic of the '96 Special II's from an Epi catalog and the pickups look the same with non-adjustable pole pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusonline Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Well here is some pickup info. 584-12,Jayang-Dong, Gwangjin-gu Seoul, Korea (South) 143-864. I am guessing this is an OEM. They appear to make pickups for a company called Tesla. So I'd say they were for sure a mod. As far as the guitar goes it deferentially appears to be a Special II they started production in 1996 and are still made. I have the 'wine red' version, it was made by DeaWon Musical Instrument Co. Ltd. Xixiaomozicun, Yingchengzizhen Ganjingzigu Dalian, China in Dec. 2011. I still am not sure about the serial number. However I did come up with one possibility. P = Manufacturer 6 = June 00 = 2000 4723 = Unit Number/ The "real serial number" I have never seen this configuration before. But that is the only way I can make sense of the number. Curious though how the manufacturer is still P, that is for sure the factory code for Peerless. Perhaps that plate came from a different guitar. I would think the Gibson truss rod cover did. Because I do not see any special II's that came with them. They usually say "Les Paul Special II" or "Special II" and some times they are blank. Then again I of course have not seen every Epiphone Special II in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 That pickup looks alot like the Tech II's from the mid to late 1980's Epiphones. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that I have them anymore to compare. Anyway, that is definitely a 1990's guitar. The headstock logo and stickers dont lie, especially the model sticker on the heel. Those are usually long gone by now too. Funny to see it on there and in such great shape. Not sure whats up with the serial and we will probably never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Well here is some pickup info. 584-12,Jayang-Dong, Gwangjin-gu Seoul, Korea (South) 143-864. I am guessing this is an OEM. They appear to make pickups for a company called Tesla. So I'd say they were for sure a mod. As far as the guitar goes it deferentially appears to be a Special II they started production in 1996 and are still made. I have the 'wine red' version, it was made by DeaWon Musical Instrument Co. Ltd. Xixiaomozicun, Yingchengzizhen Ganjingzigu Dalian, China in Dec. 2011. I still am not sure about the serial number. However I did come up with one possibility. P = Manufacturer 6 = June 00 = 2000 4723 = Unit Number/ The "real serial number" I have never seen this configuration before. But that is the only way I can make sense of the number. Curious though how the manufacturer is still P, that is for sure the factory code for Peerless. Perhaps that plate came from a different guitar. I would think the Gibson truss rod cover did. Because I do not see any special II's that came with them. They usually say "Les Paul Special II" or "Special II" and some times they are blank. Then again I of course have not seen every Epiphone Special II in the world. Yeah, you could be right about the serial number config. The Peerless serials use a similar format, only with the year before the month. As far as the pickups, I would say they are not a mod. Some Epiphones came with these pickups, but not consistently. I would say it was more of a supply issue. And there have been other instances of these pickups in LP Special II's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Epi's early serial numbers are VERY flaky. I have a Junior with serial # SJ02092609 Dating it seems easy, 09/2002, "SJ" is Sae Jung Plant, China I had an Epi E-5 I think it was, like a Junior but with a smaller (3/4 size) body and full size neck. It was made in Indonesia, but I've never figured out where. The serial # plant code was strange too. Don't have it any more though. I guess we'll never know what factory "P" is............. But the headstock logo position and color is consistent with a '96 model. And the pic I found has pickups that look the same with non-adjustable pole pieces. Definitely not like the 700T in my Junior. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 These pickups have also been installed on some Indonesian Ibanez guitars as well. I'm wondering if maybe these were made at the Cort factory for a short time. There were some Epiphones produced there, however, we are only aware of them with a "CI" factory code. I have no doubt in my mind that the pickups are factory. During this era, many Korean Epiphones (most notably from Samick and Unsung) came with SAM SUNG pickups. Gibson/Epiphone claims that these were never used, but there are plenty of people that found them in their Epiphone. Again, this was probably a supply issue and not spec'd to the guitar, which would make sense as to why Epiphone claims they were never used...even though they were. As far as the headstock logo is concerned, that positioning was used until 2002-ish. Not sure about the labels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusonline Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 RTH. I think you are right on the pickups. I had not considered that. Generally I way over rate management competency. But I was struck by the oddity of putting pickups like that in after market. Plus I really like the 650r and 700t, I put them in an Austin LP and people keep askin' me what it is. I am researching Epiphone manufacturers/ OEM's in general. I have not gotten to Cort Guitars yet. But I did know of the factory in Indonesia (CI). I would appreciate any reference info you have. It has been quite taxing to get info on some of these OEM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I have an up-to-date list here, but no references to where the info came from. All of the less common factory designations have been sourced from various forums and other peoples' experiences with these serials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 I found a couple forums where people had mentioned SAMSHIN pickups. One dude on My Lespaul said he bought a Special and it had the same pickups, but he gave no other info about the guitar. I've PM'd him about it but don't know if I will get a reply. Another guy on the Seymour Duncan Forum said: "The Washburn 421/423 and 621/623 pickups are all stamped SAMSHIN the bottom. The Oscar Schmidt Delta King that I just sold a few weeks ago had them in it." I also found a guy that said he had a '94 Goth Explorer, made in Korea, that had these pickups in it. It appears that SAMSHIN applied for a US Trademark license to sell pickups under the name TESLA: TESLA trademark by KIMEX TRADING CO., LTD. Here's their website: Tesla Pickups Just a little extra info. If I find out anything else I will be sure to post it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1Coyote Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I have no info that will solve any unanswered questions. That said, my son has a Black Les Paul Special II that has the identical "Special-II / BK" sticker where the neck & body meet. His has the serial # stamped into the neck plate also, with an additional stamp of "Made in Indonesia". According to his serial starting with SI: Your guitar was made at a factory not yet added to the database May 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusonline Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 A1Coyote your guitar was made at/by Samick Musical Insturment Co. PT. SAMICK INDONESIA JL.Perkebunan Desa Kidul Kec. Cileungsi, Kab.Bogor Jawa Barat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusonline Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 A1Coyote what is your full serial number? I wonder if the format corresponds with Gearhead's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I would be cautious about sharing serial numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 I know what ur saying about serial numbers, but I really dont think anyone wants to try to forge a guitar that might be worth $80 max. No profit margin in that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1Coyote Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 A1Coyote what is your full serial number? I wonder if the format corresponds with Gearhead's. SI07053033 SI - SAMICK INDONESIA(?) 07 - 2007 05 - May 3033 - Production Number Sorry for the delayed answer, was away for the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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