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J-15 pickguard


Rsdavidson

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Interesting pickguard on this Gibson J-15.

 

It's a nice looking pickguard.

 

Surprising because it seems moulded and quite thick.....looks about 3/16" thick.

 

High gloss tortoiseshell "look" and while firm, has a gel like quality.

 

I tried applying the edge of my nail, made a mark and it eventually desappeared.

 

So....a departure from what you'd expect on a premium brand acoustic.

 

Has Gibson made any claims about this material?

It looks like a tone dampener but I'm interested in what players think?

 

Has anyone removed one? Any special issues?

 

What have you replaced it with if you did?

 

Thanks

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I'm from the camp that doesn't really think that a pickguard will alter tone. Maybe on a microscopic level. Swapping one for a different material won't radically change what you hear. Change of Strings and pick will alter things much not drastically.

 

Neil Young's guitar has a pickguard and it sounds pretty good to me.

 

 

First the frets aren't right and now the pickguard isn't right...

Are you sure you're going for the correct guitar for yourself? :)

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The frets are sorted now thanks.

 

(The psychology involved in buying that particular guitar is interesting.

I bought in from a guy who had only had it for some days. He was a very limited player and preferred electric guitars.

I went to see it fully prepared to see lower frets and maybe a slimmer neck than I prefer.

I knew what I was doing ...yet... It was only when I got it home and measured the frets that I understood the depth of the issue as described in my other post on fret height variance.

So, I could see to a degree what was going on when I looked at it yet bought it anyway...

 

I did get it for a very good price.

 

As an Avalon/ Lowden player, I was looking for that Gibson family sound as an alternative and did get it.

 

The question we ask (in my circle), is, "is it a keeper"?

 

The answer is "yes" as evidenced by me installing the neck heel strap button. 😏 you know what I mean.

 

Being a keeper, you can look at those things we like to do...

 

Eg thinking about pickguards... I use custom made thin, over sized clear Mylar on my Avalon but obviously this treatment not for this J-15.

 

So....

 

Can we stay with the question of pickguard material?

 

It doesn't sound like it's inhibiting the tone to me but how would I know?

 

I'm very interested to hear what players think and whether Gibson has said anything about this material that I find unusual on a premium brand acoustic.

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All good my friend.

 

You are not alone in pondering the pickguard material. It has been discussed before as this 'flubber' as it's been described had been used on hummingbirds. (If I recall correctly).

 

I've been a lowden owner in the past and found their pickguards (the clear type) to be terrible looking things. And invariably peeling off on a lot that I've seen.

 

 

You'll get replies here on your 'flubber' guard. A lot of them unfavorable.

It's an easy swap if it stops you sleeping at night.

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Yes, its a whole other aesthetic.

 

Lowdens, then Avalons were always characterised by the clear Mylar pickguards.

 

It is very common though on older guitars to see player's wear patterns affecting the top beyond the small standard pickguards.

 

I like to make custom pickguards in that material for those guitars.

 

I would use the clear Mylar material sold by Stewmac and find it superb....however...it does take skill and concentration to do a good job.

 

I'm sure most Gibsons would look wrong with a clear pickguard...and there's always the tan effect to consider.

 

Now, a super thin opaque pguard be it tortoiseshell or black etc?

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This has been an ongoing discussion for months. Lots of opinions. Good and bad. If you think that sticking a big piece of rubber on you guitar top won't hurt the sound then you are wrong. Sorry. Peel the thing off and get a nice celluloid aftermarket guard. I don't think the suntan line will be evident on such a new guitar. When you get the "flubber" guard off roll it up into a little tube and deposit it in the trash can. Just my opinion. I took one and stuck it on my door just next to the doorknob as a protector.

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I'm not being an *** hogeye . or I'm trying not to be an *** might be better phrasing.

 

I replaced my j45 guard into the correct position , did I try it out with no guard? Sure I did ! I noticed no difference at all , maybe thats because its just a regular guard and not this flubbed stuff ?

 

But if the rubber makes a difference then any pickguard would make a difference no ?

Hence hummingbirds / j200's with the larger pickguards are all missing a trick by not removing them ?

 

Or are the builders using pickguards as a kind of baffle to tame the guitars into the tone zone they are after ?

 

 

Yours

Confused

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Another one who does not think the pickgard comes into play in terms of sound. OK, maybe it does if you have dog hearing. It is all about aesthetics.

 

But a question - did anybody actually ever discuss this kind of stuff before the rise of the forums? I cannot for the life of me recall ever sitting around with a bunch of players discussing tone wood, pickguards or whetever. Heck, I never heard the words tone and wood put together until I started hanging around on forums.

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Yes, I understand what you are saying Blindboygrunt.

 

I think if you are interested in the black art/science behind tone, you will be drawn into areas of fine detail.

 

....and faith...as we do things that we think ought to bring improvement.

 

So....I understand that you can't be sure the thing sounds better with the pickguard off.

 

On the other hand, I can't see a purist wanting to stick a big lump of plastic right onto the soundboard if he didn't have to.

 

Intuitively, that thick Flubber pickguard looks wrong.

 

I'm asking the community for input in case there's something I'm not getting...eg it's some new acoustically transparent material developed off the back of the aerospace industry...(don't imagine so...).

 

Maybe Hogeye has some insight into what Gibson were thinking apart from cost maybe?

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Per prior thread, the "flubber" guard was a damper for sure on a newer Hummingbird I own. Large guard, my tinnitis ears and just my opinion. Looks nice in the basement atop my washing machine, but it won't stay down even there.

 

steve

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Yes, I understand what you are saying Blindboygrunt.

 

I think if you are interested in the black art/science behind tone, you will be drawn into areas of fine detail.

 

....and faith...as we do things that we think ought to bring improvement.

 

So....I understand that you can't be sure the thing sounds better with the pickguard off.

 

On the other hand, I can't see a purist wanting to stick a big lump of plastic right onto the soundboard if he didn't have to.

 

Intuitively, that thick Flubber pickguard looks wrong.

 

I'm asking the community for input in case there's something I'm not getting...eg it's some new acoustically transparent material developed off the back of the aerospace industry...(don't imagine so...).

 

Maybe Hogeye has some insight into what Gibson were thinking apart from cost maybe?

 

Gibson was getting beat up on the issue of the paint wearing off the Hummingbird pickguard. They shopped around and found a company that would put the paint on the bottom of a piece of flubber and make the problem go away. Gibson saw a huge opportunity to cut the cost of heat stamping the celluloid pickguards and save a bunch of time as well. People actually liked the "New" material so they tried it on a couple of other guitars. Now they are saving tons of money and time on all the guitars they are putting the thing on.

 

I guess the irony here is that Gibson puts so much time and energy into the nitro finish on their guitars. They buff and polish the thing to death and all in the name of taking the finish weight off the top so it will resonate better. Then they glue a slab of rubber on the thing. I really don't have a dog in this fight. I just think that it's preposterous to think that the flubber won't effect the top vibration and the sound of the guitar.

 

People obsess about the weight of the bridge pins and how different material effects the sound of their guitar but don't bat an eye about this material. There is an ongoing battle over the Tusq bridge pin material as to opposed to bone. Sounds kinda silly when compared to the flubber they have on their tops.

 

I'm kinda interested in the opinions of the folks that debate the bridge pin material. Do you really think that a thick piece of rubber won't effect the sound of your guitar? Can you really hear the difference between Tusq and bone.

 

A question if you will to the nitro finish folks as opposed to the new poly finishes. Can you really tell the difference? If so what do you think of the flubber guard?

Gibson could save a ton of money just going to a poly finish. Is that next?

 

So... It's the money.

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Hogeye...re: pins.

 

I replaced the 25 cent "Hencho en Mexico" lightbulbs in my house with $3.00 ones that come delivered in a small presentation case. I can see a lot better now.

 

[flapper]

 

I personally like the looks of a pickguard on a guitar because it's what I'm used to seeing and often (esp. Hummingbird, J200, et al) it is a huge part of the identity. Peel the guard off a J200 and it just looks weird to me. I have to weigh that against the effect on tone. Tradition wins, even though I'm sure it has some detrimental effect. As to 'flubber', I've had no experience with it.

 

Coming at it from another direction, the thought of putting a guard on a classical is just absurd. Pick or no pick, it just looks weird. I'll take the scratches.

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I'm a firm believer in the old adage, "You get what what you pay for." There are always exceptions and occasionally a better product can be had for less money. But in most instances, cheaper prices mean cheaper quality. Sometimes it matters and sometimes not so much. And sometimes we can't agree on whether it matters, or not...

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Thanks for the replies...

 

On balance, I'm not keen on the Original J15 pickguard.

 

I agree with Hogeye, but in addition, the Flubber guard while pretty, looks wrong...it's too thick, too shiny and too moulded.

 

....and until we get some hard fact to the contrary, it looks like a dampener.

 

Here's what I might do...

 

Last year I was working on an old Gibson Dreadnaught... A "D40" from about 1973.

 

The cellulose pickguard was renewed but I held on to the old black cellulose one.

 

Today, using a warm iron and while sandwiched between damp paper and cloth, I made it reasonably flat.

 

Then using micro mesh cloth, I brought it up to a nice satin.

 

It's a black simple tear drop shape quite similar to the J15 one...

...and we reckon/hope there will be no tan issues on such a new guitar.

 

We'll see how it goes...I'm quite tempted to put that on.

The black looks really good on this guitar and it's got this "history" built in.

The guitar will be individual and that has plus and negative aspect s of course.

I know there are various associated issues but I'll think about it.

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I hope you guys and gals won't be upset with me if I ask a question on this issue and make a comment...I believe that the PG would make minute changes it seems it almost has to but I doubt or question how many people would be able to tell the difference. Now I am new at Guitar still learning and taking lessons so I do not pretend to be an expert. Having said that my question is this, if some believe it makes that much difference how do you hold the guitar if it bothers you so much..I mean to say that doesn't your arm dampen the sound then as well?? Seems that would be a larger impact. Or the arm rest or protector?? Just asking and making an observation and maybe I am missing something.

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I hope you guys and gals won't be upset with me if I ask a question on this issue and make a comment...I believe that the PG would make minute changes it seems it almost has to but I doubt or question how many people would be able to tell the difference. Now I am new at Guitar still learning and taking lessons so I do not pretend to be an expert. Having said that my question is this, if some believe it makes that much difference how do you hold the guitar if it bothers you so much..I mean to say that doesn't your arm dampen the sound then as well?? Seems that would be a larger impact. Or the arm rest or protector?? Just asking and making an observation and maybe I am missing something.

 

 

You aren't missing anything, and the point you are making is important. Most of us rest some part of our anatomy on the soundboard at times when we are playing, whether it's our forearm or our pinky finger. Comparing that to the soundboard damping effect of a pickguard, I would guess the pickguard comes in a distant second.

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I'm on the p-guards influence sound squad. Can't see how it shouldn't.

 

Removed the none-original guard from my 1953 J-45 a few weeks ago (yes I finally went naphtha) and immediately sensed a looser tone.

 

Not sure it would be that obvious now, but it really struck me during the first 4 to 14 chords.

 

Haven't played it for some days - so maybe go over and re-check. Body, mind and intuition might remember the old feel better.

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I hope you guys and gals won't be upset with me if I ask a question on this issue and make a comment...I believe that the PG would make minute changes it seems it almost has to but I doubt or question how many people would be able to tell the difference. Now I am new at Guitar still learning and taking lessons so I do not pretend to be an expert. Having said that my question is this, if some believe it makes that much difference how do you hold the guitar if it bothers you so much..I mean to say that doesn't your arm dampen the sound then as well?? Seems that would be a larger impact. Or the arm rest or protector?? Just asking and making an observation and maybe I am missing something.

 

 

The arm on the top is exactly spot on. Anyone can try this experiment at home. It's actually a salesman's trick. This guitar sounds terrible as he places his arm on the top and strums your prize. I'll give you $20.00 for it.

 

Classical players are well aware of this and your very first classical lesson will show you how to hold the guitar properly. I actually know how to hold a guitar and I suspect that your guitar teacher taught you how to hold yours as well.

 

This problem is just one of bad habits. You can easily correct it yourself with a little patience and practice. A sound sucking pickguard can't be fixed as easily. You pay a lot of money for the beauty of the Hummingbird engraved pickguard and when you get something like the flubber guard they should discount the price.

 

Just for the record. I can easily tell the difference and anyone familiar with the rich heritage of the Hummingbird will be able to tell as well. You might as well just go out and buy a J-30. It will cost you a third less and sound better.

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