EuroAussie Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Gents, one thing that Ive noticed consistently in my stable of Gibsons is that the intonation goes quite a bit off when i capo above 5th fret. Its quite audible and low E is usually the worst offender. Often have to adjust tuning before a song when going up with the capo. This is across several models. Not noticed this problem with my Martin and Furch. Also, I use a G7 capo, not spring loaded which i know can pull the strings a bit out of tune. The G7 I find to be one of the best capo to keep tuning generally speaking. Anyway, are you also finding this issue, and any ideas how to address this ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsharp Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I had similar problems with a different guitar. I believe its strictly a function of how far the strings are from the fret - how much does the capo stretch them when applied. Do you apply the capo in between the 2 frets or as close to the 5th as you can get it? I had this guitar tuned up by a tech - he lowered the saddle a bit, cut the nut depth a little deeper, lowered the action generally, and the intonation is better now, with and without the capo.. Perhaps you have too much relief in the neck as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotneck Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I always tweak the tuning when putting a capo on or off....any guitar...any fret. It doesn't sound right otherwise. My buddy with a D28vs just said the same thing last night. I think its pretty common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Does the G7 capo allow you to adjust pressure/tension on the strings? The Kyser capos I used to use didn't and I hated them for sharping the strings so often, so I moved over to a Shubb capo, which I I now use if I use a capo at all. That may not solve the problem of differential tension on the strings, but it may be one factor. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainpicker Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I went the Shubb route so I could adjust the clamping strength to the barest amount it takes to get the job done. Every Kyser I tried had the effect the OP mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hey Aussie...an interesting topic, but to me for a different reason, perhaps. Do you capo up that high to get a comfortable singing key or to maybe play lead runs more easily in key changes? Guess I feel that for every fret the capo gets away from the nut, the resonance of the top and string efficiency diminishes, at least for small bods. Not sure, but the topic is sure going to give me fun playing time way on up the neck. Haven't done that in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayoubengal1954 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I have found that using a capo gets all my guitars a bit out of tune, sometimes in a very noticeable way, sometimes not. I will say that I have found the low E string on my Southern Jumbo TV does get out of wack much more than on my two Martins (but they experience this as well to a lesser degree). I have just learned to live with it and do a quick re-tune when I am going from no capo to capo and vice versa. In my duo we are both capoing quite bit up and down the neck to get different voicings, and we try to chat up the audience while we are re-tuning to make things go by quickly. If I do quite a few songs in a row using a capo one tuning usually does the trick until I go back to the open position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibby Acoustic Lover Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I have found that using a capo gets all my guitars a bit out of tune, sometimes in a very noticeable way, sometimes not. I will say that I have found the low E string on my Southern Jumbo TV does get out of wack much more than on my two Martins (but they experience this as well to a lesser degree). I have just learned to live with it and do a quick re-tune when I am going from no capo to capo and vice versa. In my duo we are both capoing quite bit up and down the neck to get different voicings, and we try to chat up the audience while we are re-tuning to make things go by quickly. If I do quite a few songs in a row using a capo one tuning usually does the trick until I go back to the open position. I had an HB just as you described, mainly the low E. In playing other Gibby's I find this tends to affect the shorter scales more than the longer, but maybe that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayoubengal1954 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I had an HB just as you described, mainly the low E. In playing other Gibby's I find this tends to affect the shorter scales more than the longer, but maybe that's just me. There may be something to that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Are you guys correcting for the horizontal movement of the strings as your capo is locked in? You may simply need to provide some manual opposition to that force, and it may be different for individual strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacamartin Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Gents, one thing that Ive noticed consistently in my stable of Gibsons is that the intonation goes quite a bit off when i capo above 5th fret. Its quite audible and low E is usually the worst offender. Often have to adjust tuning before a song when going up with the capo. This is across several models. Not noticed this problem with my Martin and Furch. Also, I use a G7 capo, not spring loaded which i know can pull the strings a bit out of tune. The G7 I find to be one of the best capo to keep tuning generally speaking. Anyway, are you also finding this issue, and any ideas how to address this ?? I also use the G7, and find that my L-130 works very well with intonation up on the 4th fret(that's as far as I go)....but my CEO-7 has a problem with high capo intonation>possibly due to the "V" shape of the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Even fretting can alter pitch. David Bromberg recalls that Rev. Gary Davis always tuned his low E flat because he finger pressure would bring it back to pitch (when Bromberg used that guitar, he tuned it back to pitch, but when the Rev picked it up, he prompted flattened it). An aside. Schubb capos wont work on my National past the 2nd fret (trim of the neck). Right now using the dread Kyser but open to suggestions for alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Capo tips from ole big elephant ears: BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Even fretting can alter pitch. David Bromberg recalls that Rev. Gary Davis always tuned his low E flat because he finger pressure would bring it back to pitch (when Bromberg used that guitar, he tuned it back to pitch, but when the Rev picked it up, he prompted flattened it). An aside. Schubb capos wont work on my National past the 2nd fret (trim of the neck). Right now using the dread Kyser but open to suggestions for alternatives. Hey Rambler - I bought a Shubb 12 string capo and it is ok for my Nationals, but THE surprise of the life was the G7 Version 2 working on all and sundry, including the Tricone and...gulp ...ole L50.... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in SLC Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Slightly off-topic, but I find I like how my guitars sound when I'm capoed using the Victor-type capo - the big, honking brass thing with a turnscrew to tighten it up. Dave in SLC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayoubengal1954 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Capo tips from ole big elephant ears: BluesKing777. Very interesting insights. Thanks, BK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I bought a Shubb 12 string capo and it is ok for my Nationals... I use a Shubb 12-string on all my six strings. It doesn't work on my 12-string. When I'm using it, I put it on the 2nd fret. The low e string really goes sharp, especially with the capo and fretted. Drives me crazy. So just tune it up flat, huh? Why didn't I think of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromnabulax Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Capos and I have been a ongoing experiment for 45 years now. First it was those folkie capos with stretchy material with eyelets and a slab of rubber in the middle. Then those new fangled Dunlop capos with webbing and a small lever that folded back on itself. As time went on it was the tension clamp style similar to the modern Kysers. Then on to the more recent Shubb. Nowadays I am using these cute light little Planet Waves models that also allow for screwing down only the very merest amount of tension, similar to the Shubb but at almost half the price. With so little tension being applied to the strings, the sharp effect is almost nonexistent. I have no idea what they'll come up with next year, but I'll probably give 'em a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 EA, when I first got my SJTV, whenever I capo'd at 4, 5, or above I had the same issue. I had Russo's make a new saddle that was compensated at the B string, and they also customized (filed) the blank at the other strings. This made a huge difference. I still have the other straight saddle in the case. Also, my low E still goes slightly sharp whenever I capo above 3. I just tweak it. Finally regarding my Martin D15M (long scale), it capos great up to seven with no tuning adjustments needed. So perhaps it is related to scale legnth (although the sharp capo effect is more noticable on my SJTV than my Bird. Heck maybe it's the nut. Disclosure: I am not an psycho-sonic-physio-neuro-audiophsysiologist as my first trade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 A while back we had a thread on this and someone put a link to Tommy Enmanuel talking to a workshop about capos. It was very useful for me. I'm sure if you search YouTube with Tommy Emmanuel Capo it should pop up Good luck, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 ...I had Russo's make a new saddle that was compensated at the B string, and they also customized (filed) the blank at the other strings. That's what I did with my 12-fret AJ500RC (well, not at Russo's). A good tech can cut a new saddle to compensate each string for near perfect intonation. I really noticed it on the low E string, which was off, but the tech said the high E was even more off, which I hadn't even noticed. Disclosure: I am not an psycho-sonic-physio-neuro-audiophsysiologist as my first trade... That makes at least two of us. I do have pretty good relative pitch, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Capos and I have been a ongoing experiment for 45 years now. First it was those folkie capos with stretchy material with eyelets and a slab of rubber in the middle. Then those new fangled Dunlop capos with webbing and a small lever that folded back on itself. As time went on it was the tension clamp style similar to the modern Kysers. Then on to the more recent Shubb. Nowadays I am using these cute light little Planet Waves models that also allow for screwing down only the very merest amount of tension, similar to the Shubb but at almost half the price. .... I have no idea what they'll come up with next year, but I'll probably give 'em a try. I bet next year, you'll be able to get an iWatch app that enables you to sync your Gibson acoustic guitar with the watch, and will digitally provide an e-Capo (or will that be an i-Capo...?). It will mute the acoustic sound of the guitar and reproduce it thru the iWatch, and it will be as perfect in pitch as if you had tuned the guitar to that capoed pitch. Hopefully, it will work for everything but drop-D tunings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I bet next year, you'll be able to get an iWatch app that enables you to sync your Gibson acoustic guitar with the watch, and will digitally provide an e-Capo (or will that be an i-Capo...?). It will mute the acoustic sound of the guitar and reproduce it thru the iWatch, and it will be as perfect in pitch as if you had tuned the guitar to that capoed pitch. Hopefully, it will work for everything but drop-D tunings... Funny! I like tuners for tuning and gadgets for gadgetry..... until I bought a few Snarks when my much loved Boss TU-12 from the late 80s croaked, I had the Polytunes app and a Peterson Strobo app on my iPhone ..... All good until I was tuning up and the phone rang...scary! Though I have found the flashlight app for the iPhone pretty useful on a dark and stormy night looking for the keyhole in the door lock... Another thing to try with capos - leave the Snark on after tuning, put the capo on - my Shubb right on the fret and the guitar sounds in tune with itself, but check Snark and they are all a fraction high.....fine for soloists! Lousy for band! :mellow: BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I have a Kyser and a G7..... somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Ya, the intonation thing. It has been documented that the new flubber pickguards are responsible for the guitars playing out of tune. It seems that the resonance is interrupted by the flubber. This causes the top to vibrate at a sharp pitch. I personally can't imagine anyone playing with a capo let alone buying one but.... Capos and flubber = frouble. Get rid of the pickguard and the capo and your guitar will play in perfect pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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