how come my j45 lost the bass when i got it setup

[lovemyj45]

not happy with my 2011 j45 after my professional set up ... i just got the action lowered and it plays great but lost alot of the warm bass.. please help...

[BigKahune]

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A guess - Lowering the strings sometimes results in less volume and/or a thinner sound. Possibly your guitar might have lost more volume on the low end than the high end. You could test that if you've got a saddle shim - loosen the strings, put the shim in, tune up and see if your lost low end comes back.

 

 

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[Boyd]

Seems like this is something you need to discuss with the luthier who did the work. Personally, I got a used 2008 J-50 a couple years ago and took it in for a setup after playing it for a couple months. I didn't mind the original action, although it was slightly high. So I told the luthier that I wouldn't mind a lower action, but if it was going to change the sound (which I already liked) then he should just leave it the way it was. He assured me that lowering it wouldn't affect the sound, and according to my ears, he was right. Sounded and played even better after the setup.

 

Did your luthier put a different brand or gauge of strings on the guitar after the setup? That could certainly affect the sound.

[modoc_333]

Different strings could certainly do it... going to low could also cause a loss of bass and volume.

This is part of why many bluegrass players keep their action high. so they can beat on them harder and have them sound fatter and fuller.

 

 

 

-Keith

[zombywoof]

I agree with BigKahune. With a lower action you tend to drive the top less. Less energy transmitted by the strings means less oomph. A higher action and heavier gauge string will bring out the best a guitar has to give,

[lovemyj45]

I agree with BigKahune. With a lower action you tend to drive the top less. Less energy transmitted by the strings means less oomph. A higher action and heavier gauge string will bring out the best a guitar has to give,

same strings put back on martin sp lights .. he sanded the saddle down but it plays much better .. maybe i should have put a bone saddle and nut on... i lowerd my d28 martin and it sounded much better

[jedzep]

Lowering at the saddle is always a last resort for me. Have your guitar guy check to see if the action can be lowered by filing the nut slots. Sometimes this is overlooked, but I'm thinking the saddle height changed your soundboard dynamics.

[lovemyj45]

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A guess - Lowering the strings sometimes results in less volume and/or a thinner sound. Possibly your guitar might have lost more volume on the low end than the high end. You could test that if you've got a saddle shim - loosen the strings, put the shim in, tune up and see if your lost low end comes back.

 

 

.

thank you .. im going to try that..what can i use for shimms

[jedzep]

That's a good question. To test it since you don't have bone saddle strips to slip under, you have to fashion something out of what you have lying around which may not transmit the change you need to pin down the issue. Have your setup guy deal with it and tell him why you aren't happy.

[BigKahune]

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Bone, tusq or plastic saddle shims would be nice. Ebony shims work well. In the absence of those items, a flat toothpick (temporary) might work well enough to give you enough transmission to tell if there's a difference.

 

I'm curious if you live in an area where the humidity levels have the big seasonal switch. Humidity can move the action a good bit. In areas affected like that, some players like to have two saddles - a winter (dryer/shrunken, so higher) saddle, and a summer (wetter/expanded, so lower) saddle.

 

 

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[j45nick]

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I'm curious if you live in an area where the humidity levels have the big seasonal switch. Humidity can move the action a good bit. In areas affected like that, some players like to have two saddles - a winter (dryer/shrunken, so higher) saddle, and a summer (wetter/expanded, so lower) saddle.

 

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It's the opposite where I live, in Florida. In the summer (like now), the house is sealed and the air conditioning is on 24/7, and the inside temperature is a steady 77F (25C), and the humidity is 43-46% in my office, depending on how much the AC is actually running to maintain temperature.

 

In the winter, with the windows open, I typically see slightly lower temperatures (say a high of 72F or 22C) and a relative humidity 0f 55-65%.

 

All the guitars get muddy in the winter, and crisp in the summer. They seem to love 45% humidity. The action moves around as well as the guitars shrink and swell. Keeping them in their cases--(no need for humidifiers or de-humidifiers--keeps them reasonably happy and damps out the extremes.

[lovemyj45]

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Bone, tusq or plastic saddle shims would be nice. Ebony shims work well. In the absence of those items, a flat toothpick (temporary) might work well enough to give you enough transmission to tell if there's a difference.

 

I'm curious if you live in an area where the humidity levels have the big seasonal switch. Humidity can move the action a good bit. In areas affected like that, some players like to have two saddles - a winter (dryer/shrunken, so higher) saddle, and a summer (wetter/expanded, so lower) saddle.

 

 

.

yes i live in pei canada and the weather dose change quick hear,i think ill take it back to the tec and get a bone nut and saddle fitted ..i guess i shouldnt have told him to drop the action lower

[lucille64]

not happy with my 2011 j45 after my professional set up ... i just got the action lowered and it plays great but lost alot of the warm bass.. please help...

 

 

Ok what everyone so far has said can definitely affect some of your tone and volume.

 

When you lower the saddle you also decrease the string break which is the angle the strings set at behind the saddle.

 

This causes a somewhat lower volume and creates less string vibration intensity traveling thru the saddle to the bridge plate which directly affects the movement of the top soundboard at the lower bout area.

 

Since the soundboard movement in the lower bout area is where a majority of your volume and tone originate you are diminishing the ability of the saddle to produce as much intense string vibration which affects volume and tone.

 

In many cases depending on how much you lower the saddle this can create a negative affect on what your instrument sounded like before the saddle adjustment.

 

String break is a player in the tone and volume of your guitar. I have found that 4/64ths at the low E string at the 12th fret and 3/64ths at the high E string at the 12th fret are pretty good action settings as long as your not hammering your guitar when playing it.

 

In most cases, not all, this action setting will still get you the tone you want without a large amount of volume or tone loss assuming of course.....

 

that at this setting you still have enough saddle height to create a decent string break. Most of the factors affecting string break are total saddle height and how deep the saddle slot is cut in the bridge. Of course neck angle plays in to action height as well as neck relief but on a fairly new guitar that should still be ok.

 

Your tech should know this and take all this in to consideration before he makes a major saddle height adjustment and should explain that to you before making the adjustment.

 

As for saddle shims, Bob Colosi sells excellent ebony saddle shims pretty cheap and they work very well and don't interfere with string vibration transfer.

 

Just my 2 cents from 60 plus years of playing and building guitars.

[Willie King]

Since you got it setup have their been any environmental changes like temp and humidity? The strings can do it and also saddle height. I lowered my SJ saddle height a small amount and got tremendous dividend in overtones. There is an alchemy to all of this.

[lovemyj45]

Ok what everyone so far has said can definitely affect some of your tone and volume.

 

When you lower the saddle you also decrease the string break which is the angle the strings set at behind the saddle.

 

This causes a somewhat lower volume and creates less string vibration intensity traveling thru the saddle to the bridge plate which directly affects the movement of the top soundboard at the lower bout area.

 

Since the soundboard movement in the lower bout area is where a majority of your volume and tone originate you are diminishing the ability of the saddle to produce as much intense string vibration which affects volume and tone.

 

In many cases depending on how much you lower the saddle this can create a negative affect on what your instrument sounded like before the saddle adjustment.

 

String break is a player in the tone and volume of your guitar. I have found that 4/64ths at the low E string at the 12th fret and 3/64ths at the high E string at the 12th fret are pretty good action settings as long as your not hammering your guitar when playing it.

 

In most cases, not all, this action setting will still get you the tone you want without a large amount of volume or tone loss assuming of course.....

 

that at this setting you still have enough saddle height to create a decent string break. Most of the factors affecting string break are total saddle height and how deep the saddle slot is cut in the bridge. Of course neck angle plays in to action height as well as neck relief but on a fairly new guitar that should still be ok.

 

Your tech should know this and take all this in to consideration before he makes a major saddle height adjustment and should explain that to you before making the adjustment.

 

As for saddle shims, Bob Colosi sells excellent ebony saddle shims pretty cheap and they work very well and don't interfere with string vibration transfer.

 

Just my 2 cents from 60 plus years of playing and building guitars.

thank you very much for the info..it was very helpful .. i lowered the action on most of my guitars and didn't notice to much change but they were jap guitars ..thank you Gibson forum you the best

[lovemyj45]

so i put a shim under my saddle and got my sound back..not 100 percent like it was... if i put a bone nut and saddle will it still have the nice warm sound the j45 has..

[jedzep]

Well, you're on to something, however don't forget that you initially tried to lower the action for easier playing. The saddle should be swapped out, no doubt, not so much the nut, except for the fact that a new nut properly slotted can contribute to string height. I don't want to dis your luthier, but all these settings have to be integrated for max top response and playability. I've made plenty of my own saddles but cutting nut slots is a different thing. To get off easy you could just have a bone saddle installed at the higher end of your tolerable hand comfort. All the puzzle pieces have to fit to get prime tone from your instrument. A piece meal approach might be frustrating and actually lead you away from the solution.

 

I would have your guitar dude reinstall a bone saddle at the original string height, play it for a while and see how you can get accustomed to the strain. If you still want easier playing, have him look at the nut slots, truss rod adjustment, and/or tune down the strings a half. You'll need 12's to get a big J to respond.

 

Good luck.

[lovemyj45]

Well, you're on to something, however don't forget that you initially tried to lower the action for easier playing. The saddle should be swapped out, no doubt, not so much the nut, except for the fact that a new nut properly slotted can contribute to string height. I don't want to dis your luthier, but all these settings have to be integrated for max top response and playability. I've made plenty of my own saddles but cutting nut slots is a different thing. To get off easy you could just have a bone saddle installed at the higher end of your tolerable hand comfort. All the puzzle pieces have to fit to get prime tone from your instrument. A piece meal approach might be frustrating and actually lead you away from the solution.

 

I would have your guitar dude reinstall a bone saddle at the original string height, play it for a while and see how you can get accustomed to the strain. If you still want easier playing, have him look at the nut slots, truss rod adjustment, and/or tune down the strings a half. You'll need 12's to get a big J to respond.

 

Good luck.

thank you ..very helpful ...i hear mixed reviews when it comes to bone saddle but im going to try it out

[jedzep]

For saddles...bone rules! Hope your luthier recalls the original height.

[lovemyj45]

For saddles...bone rules! Hope your luthier recalls the original height.

im not taking my j45 to the same luthier..he should have known that dropping the action too low would take from the sound.. ill drive 2 hrs. and take it to a authorize Gibson repair shop ..i talked to him on the phone and he told me the same info that i got from this forum ..he said that the Gibson forums knows what there talking about and they love there guitars and there a great help in the gibson world ..he just done a set up on a j200 and it was the same thing too low and the customer couldn't get over the sound of his j200.. thank you all for your help .. ps how do i upload pic to this forum.. it says my pic are too big ..

[jedzep]

I shrink them down through my Windows Photo Gallery, but I've also loaded them to a gallery on the pic site Photobucket pre-sized and it syncs up well with the forum. Mine come through with poor quality but most here know how to take quality photos and display them in full bloom. I also have a crappy camera.