Hiss Hum Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Hey there, I'm kind of coming from a different angle than to what it seems most acoustic guitar tone enthusiasts on message boards are after. People are talking about overtones, and sparkly beautiful top ends most of the time, and that's cool. It's just not my bag. I love lower highs, around 3khz-4khz, and beautiful detailed midrange. That's essentially why I bought my Blues King...and while the 800hz is sometimes a bit over the top, the midrange resonance of this guitar, and the harmonic content is fantastic. Someone suggested I look into the bridge/saddle/nut composition - Someone has suggested fossilized walrus ivory, which sounds incredibly fancy and ruling-class. LORD GIBBSLEY: JEEVES, FETCH MY FOSSILIZED WALRUS IVORY GUITAR JEEVES: BUT SIR, WHICH ONE LORD GIBBSLEY: DON'T MAKE ME REPEAT MYSELF JEEVES JEEVES: BUT THEY ARE ALL MADE OF FOSSILIZED WALRUS IVORY SIR LORD GIBBSLEY: RIGHT YOU ARE JEEVES! RIGHT YOU ARE! BOTH LAUGH UNTIL THEY COUGH, SLAPPING THEIR HANDS ON THEIR THIGHS LORD GIBBSLEY: SERIOUSLY JEEVES, IF YOU DON'T THE RIGHT GUITAR, I'LL HAVE YOU HUNG. JEEVES: COMPLETELY UNDERSTANDABLE SIR. I digress, I'm really trying to steer away from the sort of Tommy Immanuel, 'New Blues' or as my friend calls it 'The guitar nerd sparkle and twang'. Please help me find a more genuine representation of old-timey tone. Think Gillian Welch & David Rawlings. That's a fine example of excellent tone. I'm an engineer, so I understand that a lot of that is microphone, preamp and EQ choice...however, not all of it is, and I'd love it if you could help me figure out some ways to address the issue I'm facing with my tone at the moment. It's too 'pretty' sounding and doesn't have enough meat in the high upper mids. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 A vintage Gibson L-00 from about 1935 - 1937 will cover it, or maybe a Gibson L-00 Legend from the newer guitars...(I have not played one or seen one, but fortunate enough to try a J45 Legend which would also suit your cause.) BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Errrr... J45 or J50. Done. Not nerdy tone. Cool tone. Phlegm in your throat tone. Honk. Growl. Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiss Hum Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 Sorry, I should have been more specific. I have an older Gibson Blues King, and I'm looking into modifications for that to try to get the best out of it. I'm happy with the tone, but would love to modify it to better suit the idea of attenuated highs & detailed high mids. Not a guitar change. I would never cheat on my BK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjunk Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Nice example mentioned with Rawlings. You're talking about purely acoustic tone (not plugged in) right? Have you run the gamut of different string gauges, alloys, brands? Maybe check out the Martin "Retro" ones. I personally keep coming back to Martin SP mediums on my L-1. Bumping up to medium gauge brought that thing to life in a crazy way. I stay away from coated strings because I actually prefer the less sparkly sound of played-in strings. Can't say I have any experience with walrus components though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Sorry, I should have been more specific. I have an older Gibson Blues King, and I'm looking into modifications for that to try to get the best out of it. I'm happy with the tone, but would love to modify it to better suit the idea of attenuated highs & detailed high mids. Not a guitar change. I would never cheat on my BK. Monel strings probably - like Martin Retro lights - all nickel. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/martin-martin-retro-series-light-acoustic-guitar-strings BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 1 - Go for not so bright strings as a first step. 2 - Change b-pins to plastic or wood - try different types of wood. 3 - Shim the saddle under the E'n'B string w. cardboard, , , even (perhaps 2 layers) duct tape. . If this doesn't provide the wanted change, , , change guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I do not know why but there are more than enough players out there who equate bright sounding with better sounding. Makes it easy to understand the allure of Taylors. My take has always been a guitar is born with a voice. You can nuance that voice but you cannot dramatically change it short of having the bracing shaved or something. On saddles, pins and such, if I replace the original (which I only do when condition warrants it) I use those made of hard plastic which is as close to the old celluloid parts as you are going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 My take has always been a guitar is born with a voice. You can nuance that voice but you cannot dramatically change it short of having the bracing shaved or something. . Listen to the zombywoof's words of wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMELEYE Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Perhaps you are looking for an all mahogany guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Try a big ol' fattasss Blue Chip pick. It'll force you to control your tone with a lighter touch on the strings. I use a different flatpick for each of my acoustics and it took some pick shuffling to pinpoint the tone I liked best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Try a big ol' fattasss Blue Chip pick. It'll force you to control your tone with a lighter touch on the strings. I use a different flatpick for each of my acoustics and it took some pick shuffling to pinpoint the tone I liked best. Yeah, both the Blue Chip and the Red Bear will take the nerdy over-brightness out of any guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozz Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I do not know why but there are more than enough players out there who equate bright sounding with better sounding. Makes it easy to understand the allure of Taylors. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: I totally agree that more than enough players equate bright with better. Taylor outsells Gibson 10 to 1. I personally find sparkly, shimmery brightness almost offensive. Perhaps it's just my ringing ears and tinnitus that makes it sound worse to me than it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiss Hum Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Hi all, Thanks for the replies, I'm going to try the Martin Retro strings. I really appreciate everyone taking their time to respond. Yes, I do mean acoustic tone. I have never been happy with any live guitar pickup, so it's always choosing the lesser of many evils with that business. Also I should add this: I'm very, very happy with the tone of my Blues King. It's exactly what I want in terms of midrange tone, but as I said, about 800hz needs some experimentation with materials to control. Most importantly, and in obvious jest - I strongly dislike the overwhelming majority of acoustic players I've come across wanting to get a shimmering sparkle from 5khz up...to me it sounds cheap, and tacky like Trump's 'hair'. In fact...I bet Trump plays a Taylor with Elixer strings, and even when in a nice studio, prefers to DI his guitar because of the 'nice sound' of the contact pickup. I think one poster put it best when he said that he's baffled why people find Taylor guitars a desirable instrument. I couldn't agree more. I'm not doubting that Taylors are beautifully made, and technically well balanced, but that's not my stroke folks. I'm simply wanting to maximize the beautiful midrange my guitar has, and avoid the modifications that would accentuate the top end - in fact - I'm searching for whatever modifications I can search for to underscore the midrange, and attenuate the top end. It just seems as though many products are catering to people who want 'zing!' in their guitar. I am trying to find the products that have, however minor, the inverse properties. I hate zing. I want zing to die. ;) I've ordered the Martin Retro strings. When it comes to saddle and nut material, are there any in particular that will contribute to the warmth cause? A friend of mine suggested Fossilized Walrus Tusk. That sounds like madness. Has anyone had experience with that material on a Blues King? I mean, it has to be ethical if it's fossilized, right? I imagine a hardwood nut/saddle combination would probably lend itself to a warmer tone...I'm not necessarily after volume, in fact, I don't care. I was just hoping that someone out there would have a really cracking idea or two. A few good ones so far, please keep them coming and again, I'm really appreciative of your time. Zing on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiss Hum Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Also, thanks for the pick suggestions, but I'm a fingerpicker. Bare fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickthemiller Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Sorry, I should have been more specific. I have an older Gibson Blues King, and I'm looking into modifications for that to try to get the best out of it. I'm happy with the tone, but would love to modify it to better suit the idea of attenuated highs & detailed high mids. Not a guitar change. I would never cheat on my BK. If all else fails - stuff a towel in it - that'll kill the highs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Hi all, Thanks for the replies, I'm going to try the Martin Retro strings. I really appreciate everyone taking their time to respond. Yes, I do mean acoustic tone. I have never been happy with any live guitar pickup, so it's always choosing the lesser of many evils with that business. Also I should add this: I'm very, very happy with the tone of my Blues King. It's exactly what I want in terms of midrange tone, but as I said, about 800hz needs some experimentation with materials to control. Most importantly, and in obvious jest - I strongly dislike the overwhelming majority of acoustic players I've come across wanting to get a shimmering sparkle from 5khz up...to me it sounds cheap, and tacky like Trump's 'hair'. In fact...I bet Trump plays a Taylor with Elixer strings, and even when in a nice studio, prefers to DI his guitar because of the 'nice sound' of the contact pickup. I think one poster put it best when he said that he's baffled why people find Taylor guitars a desirable instrument. I couldn't agree more. I'm not doubting that Taylors are beautifully made, and technically well balanced, but that's not my stroke folks. I'm simply wanting to maximize the beautiful midrange my guitar has, and avoid the modifications that would accentuate the top end - in fact - I'm searching for whatever modifications I can search for to underscore the midrange, and attenuate the top end. It just seems as though many products are catering to people who want 'zing!' in their guitar. I am trying to find the products that have, however minor, the inverse properties. I hate zing. I want zing to die. ;) I've ordered the Martin Retro strings. When it comes to saddle and nut material, are there any in particular that will contribute to the warmth cause? A friend of mine suggested Fossilized Walrus Tusk. That sounds like madness. Has anyone had experience with that material on a Blues King? I mean, it has to be ethical if it's fossilized, right? I imagine a hardwood nut/saddle combination would probably lend itself to a warmer tone...I'm not necessarily after volume, in fact, I don't care. I was just hoping that someone out there would have a really cracking idea or two. A few good ones so far, please keep them coming and again, I'm really appreciative of your time. Zing on. After trying the Retro strings, ebony bridge pins then if still not there, ebony nut I suppose... Those strings and ebony pins will do it. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I found that Retros made my guitars more brash and more zingy. Let us know how you find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northcntryblues Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Sorry, I should have been more specific. I have an older Gibson Blues King, and I'm looking into modifications for that to try to get the best out of it. I'm happy with the tone, but would love to modify it to better suit the idea of attenuated highs & detailed high mids. Not a guitar change. I would never cheat on my BK. I'm the exact same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromnabulax Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I'm kinda surprised you're getting that tone if you're finger picking without the use if picks. That being said, if Taylor has the market on that high end metallic jangle sound, I think Gibson comes in number two, but that's why I bought my J200. I was needing the big voice jangly Everly Brothers sound to counterbalance the warm woody sound of my Martins. No insult intended here, but maybe a mid to high end Martin better suits your style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparquelito Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 LG, I find that playing with really old, worn out guitar strings will also help to achieve the tone you describe. The older, dirtier, and gummier the better. Every other guitar in any pawnshop in the country will feature such strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Sorry, I should have been more specific. I have an older Gibson Blues King, and I'm looking .. to try to get the best out of it. May have one built in limiter there--if your BK is before 06: the 25.5 scale. That automatically would make it more taught and zingier (one reason Idid not keep the one I had). Ditto some of the RJ L1s and NL specials. Any of the 24.5 scale Gibsons --J45-style, J185 and short scale L-series models like the LG2 Americana, L00 Legend /TV ($$$$$) or Nick Lucas specials would have that sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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