Specs don't match Gibson's website - advice?

[shuvalkin]

This is a new thread related to http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/123401-getting-a-new-hummingbird-pro-advice/

 

But the question is more basic (I think).

 

I just bought a hummingbird pro (see the other thread if you're curious about that). According to the Gibson website, the HB Pro is supposed to come stock with a bone saddle (see here: http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acoustic-Instruments/Square-Shoulder/Gibson-Acoustic/Hummingbird-Pro/Specs.aspx). But the saddle that came with the guitar (manufacture date on the card is March 2015) is obviously tusq.

 

I wouldn't mind this at all if Gibson had simply advertised the product as tusq saddle. But I'm just slightly irritated about this.

 

So what's your advice? I'm very happy with the guitar, and replacing the saddle with one from Bob Colosi (http://www.guitarsaddles.com/) wouldn't be a huge expense or effort. But I'm a little irritated that the product doesn't match what is billed on the website, and I would have ordered the bone saddle in advance if I'd known I'd end up with tusq.

 

So... should I call Gibson about this or just simply put it behind me and order a replacement from Colosi?

[Lars68]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you look at the Gibson site again, I wouldn't be at all surprised if you find some small, lawyer type, print somewhere regarding spec changes.

 

Lars

[Johnt]

Gibson have a reputation for inconsistency on things like this

 

Enough said

 

Go the "Bob" route

 

As Lars says there will be a disclaimer somewhere

 

Complaining to Bozeman will only get you frustrated

[zombywoof]

I would demand nothing short of talking to Henry J. himself.

 

This my friend is one of the minor irritants of buying sight unseen and the interweb making a ton of information instantly available.

 

Specs not matching a description is a tradition. Back in the day, catalogs often carried the same picture and description for years totally ignoring changes in specs. The saving grace was you did not order from the catalog unless it was a Sears or Monkey Wards.

 

And if you like the guitar's voice why even worry about changing the saddle? As they say, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[northcntryblues]

I can certainly understand and relate to the original poster's annoyance when what you get is not what you expected. I once ordered a Martin 000-15S, and I was quite disappointed to see upon arrival that it featured gold tuners. The online catalogue showed it with chrome w/ white buttons. To me, the gold looked out of place and garish and just did not fit the real old school basic vibe of that guitar at all. I never really bonded with that guitar, and I guess the good news is that I ended up next with my one and only Blues King. She is a thing of beauty.

[MissouriPicker]

For myself, I wouldn't keep the guitar. I'd return it while I still could. If the site says it's "bone," then it should definitely be bone. I don't like it when someone misleads me, especially when it involves "my" money........Back in the 90's, I had a brand new Taylor 714ce. Beautiful guitar, and my only venture into Taylors. The ES system was horrible. It was a real hassle whenever I wanted to plug-in. Took it back to the Heartland Guitar and they contacted Taylor. Turns out that the ES system in my guitar was part of the earlier ES stock that they used-up before going to the newer version. Anyway, Taylor offered to install the newer ES in my guitar if I paid the shipping and half the installation cost. I just returned the guitar. Too much of a hassle for a new guitar. I'd do the same with the guitar you have. That's just my opinion. It doesn't necessarily make me right and someone else wrong. I haven't run into this kind of issue with Gibson or Martin, but I do believe it happens with them as well. Let Guitar Center raise hell with Gibson. They're the ones losing the sale. You don't need the hassle. There are lots of great Gibsons and Martins out there that you can bond with. All you need to do is find you one.............Hope you get this settled to your satisfaction.

[GuitarLight]

Gibson uses fine print..microscopic really somewhere in their site that says something like.. "We reserve the right to change specs at any time without giving notification." ....that may be legal, but it's pretty low. Perhaps you should make sure that you really like that guitar ,or return it. I consider such "fine print" ..to be lying to the customer. Also remember that changing the saddle from tusq to bone will change its sound, tone and volume levels..and not necessarily for the better.

 

My Gibson Hummingbird came with a tusq saddle (as per the specs) and I decided to change it to a Colossi bone saddle. I put the bone saddle in...and HATED the sound. Both acoustically AND particularly when plugged in..it became LOUD and very filled with base, even unbalanced I would say. So I returned the factory tusq saddle, and whallah! The sound was returned. Tusq saddles are often better for plugging in and amplification.

 

But remember...hehe..there's always that sweet full scale, mahogany premium sitka Martin D-18 with bone nut and saddle and slim modified easy play matte non sticky neck, man that neck was SMOOTH.. ....Played one the other day on sale with 15%0ff...cost $1996.

[bobouz]

When talking about a part that can be easily swapped-out with no modifications, I'd consider it a non-issue.

 

A while back, I ordered a Martin that was speced as having a morado fretboard & bridge. Instead, it came with richlite (while the website still listed morado). That's an example I consider serious, and the guitar was returned.

 

Further back, Martin did virtually the same thing in 2001, when they eliminated striped ebony from the 16-series (fingerboards & bridges), and replaced it with micarta. Martin did not announce the change for months, and it created a well deserved mini-uproar.

[Motherofpearl]

God forbid.

[Bozz]

There are a lot of high end guitars being built these days with Tusq nuts and saddles. Bone is great material, but I wouldn't necesssary assume that Tusq is inferior. In fact many builders prefer it over bone because of its consistency. Bone, ivory, wood and other naturally formed materials are known to have more inconsistent density and tonal properties.

 

That being said, my persoanl preference is in line with yours. If I have a choice between Tusq and bone, I'm going with bone every time. But, I have guitars with both and they all sound fine.

 

I wouldn't worry about it in this case unless there is actually something wrong with it. I agree with zombywoof, "If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

[shuvalkin]

Well, I'm certainly not going to return the guitar just because the saddle isn't what I expected. Not that anyone would descripe me as an overly optimistic sort, but the upside is that, had it come with bone, I wouldn't have had the chance to compare with tusq, because I wouldn't have gone looking for tusq replacement. Now I'll be able to compare because I will order a bone replacement and simply decide which I like better.

 

As for contacting Gibson, from what y'all are saying, I guess they aren't likely to do more than shrug their shoulders if I make a stink about it. Bobouz's story about the Martins is appalling. But even for something as minor as a discrepancy between specs on a saddle and what ends up leaving the factory, I don't understand why Gibson (or other makers) bothers to say it's one thing if the fine print says it may not be. I have a mental image of a luthier in the Bozeman factory flipping a coin to decide how to finish a guitar before getting it ready to ship out. Since they evidently don't care about causing minor irritation over something like this, perhaps they should just say on the website that they'll put whatever accessories on the instrument that they feel like putting on that day and anyone who has a problem with it can go suck eggs.

[Boyd]

If the site says it's "bone," then it should definitely be bone. I don't like it when someone misleads me

 

I believe the OP bought his guitar at Guitar Center. Isn't this the special model that was made for them? I thought it was discussed here before? Anyway, "the site" does not make any claim as to what kind of saddle is included - look at the specifications below.

 

I agree with Zomby, and it is why I only buy guitars that I can play in person. But the part I don't understand here is that the OP said he played several of the same model at Guitar Center before ordering a new one. Did they have bone saddles? If they did, then you could complain to Guitar Center and maybe they would swap yours. But if the store models also had tusq, then it seems like a case of caveat emptor. :)

 

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson-Hummingbird-Pro-Cutaway-Acoustic-Electric-Guitar-105494314-i1476553.gc

 

Gibson Hummingbird Pro Cutaway Acoustic-Electric Guitar Features:

Body style: cutaway dreadnought

Solid Sitka spruce top

Solid mahogany back and sides

Scalloped advanced X-bracing pattern

Rosewood fingerboard with mother-of-pearl parallelogram inlays

Indian rosewood bridge

Compound dovetail neck-to-body joint bonded with hide glue

Fishman Prefix T electronics with built-in tuner

25-1/2" scale

Vintage Gibson 1960s-style round neck profile

Hand-scalloped top bracing

No. of frets: 20/14 open

Nut width: 1.68"

Neck radius: 12"

Binding: white

Rosette: parallel rings

Bridge: rosewood

Pickguard: tortoise

Finish: vintage sunburst (nitrocellulose)

Tuners: Grovers Rotomatics

Electronics: Fishman Prefix Plus-T

Case: Hardshell

[shuvalkin]

I believe the OP bought his guitar at Guitar Center. Isn't this the special model that was made for them? I thought it was discussed here before? Anyway, "the site" does not make any claim as to what kind of saddle is included - look at the specifications below.

 

I agree with Zomby, and it is why I only buy guitars that I can play in person. But the part I don't understand here is that the OP said he played several of the same model at Guitar Center before ordering a new one. Did they have bone saddles? If they did, then you could complain to Guitar Center and maybe they would swap yours. But if the store models also had tusq, then it seems like a case of caveat emptor. :)

 

 

I never even checked the saddle on the one in the shop... By the time I decided to get the HB Pro, the one in the shop had seen some abuse, and it didn't occur to me to be too concerned about the saddle issue until I ordered the new one.

 

As for the website, it's not the GC website that I was referring to as giving the specs as bone saddle; rather, it's the Gibson website (see original post).

 

Also, as far as the question both here and earlier in the thread about whether the HB Pro is a GC Exclusive. Well, Guitar Center likes to say that it is, but there are other places you can get them (including Amazon). So probably most brick and mortar guitar stores don't carry them, but there may be some other than Guitar Center that do.

[Boyd]

As for the website, it's not the GC website that I was referring to as giving the specs as bone saddle; rather, it's the Gibson website (see original post).

 

Yes, I understood that. But my point was that your relationship is with Guitar Center, and their listing for the item that you purchased doesn't claim to have a bone saddle. Perhaps this is one of the differences in the version that they sell?

[zombywoof]

I am gonna break it to ya'll gently but in 55 some odd years I do not think I ever checked to see what a saddle on any guitar I was holding in my hands was made of. Now the endpin, that was something you had to be mindful of.

 

OK, settling down, the way I look at it is unless Gibson has some kind of a crystal ball they can gaze into and see just how I like my guitars, chances are pretty good I am gong to take it in for a full setup. A saddle is really just part of that so just chalk it up to getting the guitar setup to meet your specifications.

[modoc_333]

I never even checked the saddle on the one in the shop... By the time I decided to get the HB Pro, the one in the shop had seen some abuse, and it didn't occur to me to be too concerned about the saddle issue until I ordered the new one.

 

As for the website, it's not the GC website that I was referring to as giving the specs as bone saddle; rather, it's the Gibson website (see original post).

 

Also, as far as the question both here and earlier in the thread about whether the HB Pro is a GC Exclusive. Well, Guitar Center likes to say that it is, but there are other places you can get them (including Amazon). So probably most brick and mortar guitar stores don't carry them, but there may be some other than Guitar Center that do.

 

 

It IS exclusive to GC. If you look at the ones on Amazon, they ship from Music123 or Woodwind and Brasswind. These are the same company. W and B became music123. and they are both owned by Guitar Center/ Musicians Friend. It's all the same company. They are just selling them on Amazon under different names. Why? Because not everyone knows. Some people don't like GC so they won't shop with them.... then they go to buy the item from someone they think are a GC competitor.... but alas, the money goes right back to the same place.

 

 

 

 

 

-Keith

[BluesKing777]

A little side info:

 

 

I read here or the other forum where the reason Gibson and Martin and I assume others, ship guitars with pickups using Tusq saddles is a matter of percentages. About 1% of bone saddles in a guitar manufacturing plant don't sound right with the u/s pickup while the Tusq are consistent. So to stop those 1% returning ever year, they ship with Tusq. The new owner can change to bone and spend the extra time getting it right.

 

 

BluesKing777.

[MissouriPicker]

I thought the specs for this guitar were on the Gibson site. If not, then that is a different issue. If it's a made-for-GC instrument, then GC is responsible for the specs being accurate on their own site. My point was that if Gibson (or Martin/Taylor/Breedlove/etc) advertised one thing, but provided something different, then they were wrong. In my view, the small print tends to be a loophole that allows the advertiser to not provide exactly what was advertised.............. Regarding this particular guitar--given the doubts about this model to begin with, followed by the confusion over the nut, I'd likely return it. Has nothing to do with the quality of the guitar. For me it has to do with what the buyer is expecting to receive. I wouldn't be surprised if GC were willing to work-out some kind of deal to make the buyer happy. If that works, great. If not, then find another guitar. Lots of good ones out there. Gibson and Martin make special models for GC, Sweetwater, and others and they're all full-blown Martins and Gibsons.

[Hogeye]

Bluesking777 is correct. Gibson ships all of their acoustic/electric guitars with Tusq. Why? Because they are consistent in density and the pick-up will be more balanced with it. No voids in the material as can happen with bone.

 

Gibson is notorious for screwing up the specs on the web-site. The problem is the guitars are made in Bozeman Montana and the folks that put up the web-page are in Nashville. Neither knows what they are doing most of the time so most folks just hope that the body size and the cost are correct then they come here for the proper information. This does not excuse Gibson in any way.

 

If you can't live without a bone saddle P.M. me and I will be more than happy to send you a bone blank. I have a couple of dozen in my repair bin. I'm sure when Jeremy Morton reads this on Monday he will contact you. He's Gibson's go to guy and is very helpful in these situations. Don't believe the folks that say Gibson is unresponsive. They are better than most.

 

Lately folks here try to steer people into buyin' Martin guitars. Not a lot of folks seem to care about this. I do. I don't tolerate trolls. Especially when a newbie is looking for information. This is going to change.

 

A rather shaky start but welcome to the forum and let us know how you and your guitar are getting along. There are folks here that will help you

[shuvalkin]

Thanks, Hogeye. I appreciate your note.

 

I'm delighted with the guitar! The bone saddle may or may not make any difference, or I might end up preferring the tusq. I was just surprised that it didn't match up with the website.

 

At the end of the day this is a pretty minor issue, but I appreciate the feedback people have given about this. I am relieved to hear that you think Gibson is more responsive than others have suggested. The other responses were a little disheartening.

 

The odd thing is that the nut is bone (as per the website specs), rather than tusq like the saddle. (EDIT:

Though perhaps that isn't so strange in light of your point about the likelihood that the tusq was chosen in part because of the improved balance in the pickup. I wouldn't have thought of that, so I appreciate the insight.)

 

In fact, I'm having a strange buzzing on the first string, but only playing the string open when tuned down to d (that note). Not sure why. I cleaned the nut groove and added graphite lubricant, but that didn't seem to help (I also went ahead and checked the other grooves -- there wasn't any lubricant in the bottom four strings for some reason). It sounds as if the groove isn't parallel to the fingerboard, but, as I said, it only happens while playing an open d. So I'm having some trouble trying to diagnose this, and would like to find a fix that doesn't involve replacing the nut.

 

Anyway...

[GuitarLight]

Thanks, Hogeye. I appreciate your note.

 

I'm delighted with the guitar! The bone saddle may or may not make any difference, or I might end up preferring the tusq. I was just surprised that it didn't match up with the website.

 

At the end of the day this is a pretty minor issue, but I appreciate the feedback people have given about this. I am relieved to hear that you think Gibson is more responsive than others have suggested. The other responses were a little disheartening.

 

The odd thing is that the nut is bone (as per the website specs), rather than tusq like the saddle. (EDIT:

Though perhaps that isn't so strange in light of your point about the likelihood that the tusq was chosen in part because of the improved balance in the pickup. I wouldn't have thought of that, so I appreciate the insight.)

 

In fact, I'm having a strange buzzing on the first string, but only playing the string open when tuned down to d (that note). Not sure why. I cleaned the nut groove and added graphite lubricant, but that didn't seem to help (I also went ahead and checked the other grooves -- there wasn't any lubricant in the bottom four strings for some reason). It sounds as if the groove isn't parallel to the fingerboard, but, as I said, it only happens while playing an open d. So I'm having some trouble trying to diagnose this, and would like to find a fix that doesn't involve replacing the nut.

 

Anyway...

Congradulations on your new Gibson! I hope you will enjoy it for years to come! That Gibson sound really can't be beat...not even by Martin!

[Boyd]

Regarding this particular guitar--given the doubts about this model to begin with, followed by the confusion over the nut, I'd likely return it. Has nothing to do with the quality of the guitar. For me it has to do with what the buyer is expecting to receive.

 

I suppose we're just beating a dead horse here :) but did you read the OP's other thread? http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/123401-getting-a-new-hummingbird-pro-advice/page__view__findpost__p__1678954

 

He said he played the display model of this guitar over a period of months in the store at Guitar Center. He subsequently ordered a new one, and that is what he is talking about in this thread. How could he not know what to expect in this scenario?

[badbluesplayer]

First of all, the HB Pro EC is a substantially different model than the Hummingbird Pro. The guitar you're looking at on the Gibson website is not the guitar you bought. Your guitar may very well be a GC exclusive.

 

You need to deal with GC if you think there's something wrong with it. They're the dealer. So you need to ask them if you have any questions. Gibson may be (kind of) ignoring you because it's not their job to get between the customer and the dealer.

 

If it has a Fishman undersaddle pickup, be aware that Fishman recommends synthetic saddles for those pickups because a small percantage of bone saddles have an inconsistent density and won't provide a consistent signal between strings.

 

If it was me, I'd find out what the specs are for that guitar before I contact Gibson. The description on MF's website doesn't say what saddle it's supposed to have.

[MissouriPicker]

You're right, Boyd. I read that other thread again and now I'm more confused than before. It became "lost in translation" for me. From Hummingbirds to trolls to small type to counterfeits, to China to tusq to bone to strings to the proverbial "dead horse," and now maybe the specs on this site or that site might or might not be for the guitar originally mentioned....For many of us, getting that new Gibson is one of those "in a lifetime" experiences. I hope that Shuvalkin now has or ends-up with the guitar he wants.

[blindboygrunt]

Is the buzzing not caused by the loosened detuned to D string ?

Is the action super low ?