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Poor QC from Memphis


Sitedrifter

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I really thought Memphis stepped up it's game over the past 4 months with their QC checking and finishing techniques. But sorry to say they have not. I checked out the new ES 335 Government edition at Sweetwater and on one of the guitars the F holes are chipped and look terrible. Guess the UPS guy did it.. LOL Well that is not actually funny because Gibson quality is not getting better and has become harder to find a premium finished guitar of theirs that it is a shame. I love the Gibsons I have and they are all players yet when purchased were cosmetically outstanding but that took alot of effort on my part. I gave up on buying a few guitars even though they played great because of 3k to 8k that I purchase they not only have to be players but be outstanding lookers. If anything I hope Gibson Memphis reads this forum and gets the hint that there are low cost brands that rival and out perform their finishing.

 

That was my rant for today. [cursing]

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Hmmmm, well that surprises me, in that Sweetwater USUALLY has the best of their examples, for sale.

NOT "damaged" goods, unless they specify it as a "return," or possibly "used/Demo." Some of

the other "Big Box" stores, may be more hit and miss, regarding their tolerances. But, Sweet-

water is usually outstanding.

 

As to Gibson's QC? It goes through "phases," seemingly. We've all seen it, regardless of

model, or place of origin. Which is why I rarely buy guitars, sight unseen, and/or un-played,

first! But, I have a great dealer (E.M. Shorts), in Wichita, whom I've dealt with, for 30+ years,

and they've never let me down, so far!

 

Cheers,

CB

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Hmmmm, well that surprises me, in that Sweetwater USUALLY has the best of their examples, for sale.

NOT "damaged" goods, unless they specify it as a "return," or possibly "used/Demo." Some of

the other "Big Box" stores, may be more hit and miss, regarding their tolerances. But, Sweet-

water is usually outstanding.

 

As to Gibson's QC? It goes through "phases," seemingly. We've all seen it, regardless of

model, or place of origin. Which is why I rarely buy guitars, sight unseen, and/or un-played,

first! But, I have a great dealer (E.M. Shorts), in Wichita, whom I've dealt with, for 30+ years,

and they've never let me down, so far!

 

Cheers,

CB

 

I tend to use Dave's because they know what I want and expect and they are as anal as I am which is great!

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I just bought a 2011 es339....When I received it, I was like a kid in a candy store but the I started to think it was a fake....

the finish was lumpy and thick....it was soft enough for me to make a dent in it with my nails....the horns are small unlike the Epiphone's which are more robust...

 

I took off the truss rod cover and you can see the overlap of the veneer on the headstock..... There is no QC and this is a Gibson CS Memphis model?????

I called Gibson and they assured me the ID was authentic and that there was no problem with fake CS Gibson 339.....

 

SO whats happening.....I have a few chinese guitars that kick *** as far as QC. I had as of a week ago bought an Epi es339 that sounded great but then I

thought, What if I bought a real Gibson 339?

 

Although I admit the guitar sounds great!!!!! Would like to hear from other experiencing like situation

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I have had several Gibson 335's and Southern Jumbo acoustics and cannot fault them. I only have one Gibson SJ now but have found that Washburn have several acoustics that are as good and a fraction of the price of Gibsons. And my Epi EJ-200 is not too different in tone to the Gibson and a flawless finish.

 

A friend told me some time ago that he had often gone into a store to look at Gibson 335's and was not impressed with their finish. I think there are good and bad out there and probably there is no consistent QC. Bit like getting a Friday afternoon car.

 

Bob

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Would you mind posting a link? From what I've seen in stores, the quality really has improved. I didn't used to say that, you can search my past posts, but from what I've seen I recant those statements for what is currently coming off the lines. They are putting out fantastic guitars right now (although I may not agree with the pricing structure or some of the "improvements" to the Les Paul line). Please post a link if you have minute.

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Just some random thoughts:

 

Maybe it was trainee day when that one was rolled out? Maybe they were going for the genuine hand-crafted look? Maybe they were following a "ugly-a$$ color scheme warrants ugly-a$$ work" philosophy?

 

FWIW I just bought a 2015 ES-335 and it is perfect eusa_dance.gif I spent an hour in the showroom trying three of them and had a hard time deciding on which one. All three were perfect.

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Just some random thoughts:

 

Maybe it was trainee day when that one was rolled out? Maybe they were going for the genuine hand-crafted look? Maybe they were following a "ugly-a$$ color scheme warrants ugly-a$$ work" philosophy?

 

FWIW I just bought a 2015 ES-335 and it is perfect eusa_dance.gif I spent an hour in the showroom trying three of them and had a hard time deciding on which one. All three were perfect.

 

 

I am not saying none are perfect, rather too many are imperfect. I think it is the typical worker not giving a crap that day or even hour.

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You can see the edges of the F hole are terrible and along the lines of a chinese knock off.

 

Image1_1.jpg

 

Sweetwater has four of those guitars that you can look at online and they probably have at least ten in stock total. So you found one with an unacceptable finish around the f-hole. BFD. You could probably get about 30% off their asking price if you wanted it. But you don't. Or you could have them send you pictures of every one they had in stock. But you didn't.

 

Gibson has excellent QC these days. They have outstanding customer service. Sweetwater is as good as they get. They have a 30 day no questions asked return period.

 

Go ahead and try to find another Gibson on Sweetwater's site with a finish defect. And compare that to the total number of Gibsons on their site. I dare you. 2015 is a really good year for Memphis as far as I'm concerned.

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Sweetwater has four of those guitars that you can look at online and they probably have at least ten in stock total. So you found one with an unacceptable finish around the f-hole. BFD. You could probably get about 30% off their asking price if you wanted it. But you don't. Or you could have them send you pictures of every one they had in stock. But you didn't.

 

Gibson has excellent QC these days. They have outstanding customer service. Sweetwater is as good as they get. They have a 30 day no questions asked return period.

 

Go ahead and try to find another Gibson on Sweetwater's site with a finish defect. And compare that to the total number of Gibsons on their site. I dare you. 2015 is a really good year for Memphis as far as I'm concerned.

 

You read like you ride the train of bliss and drink the koolaid which is fine but you say, BFD to QC issues for that kind of money? This has nothing to do with sweetwater or Gibson's customer service so why try and bring them into this situation of problematic finishing and construction? This has to do with the builders of the guitars who sometimes do a poor job, which FWIW is unacceptable! Your level of expected quality is pretty low which is evident. I would also not dare someone to look at pictures on sweetwater's site, even Gibson's site and other retailers because they are out there and scary that they are so easy to spot.

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You read like you ride the train of bliss and drink the koolaid which is fine but you say, BFD to QC issues for that kind of money? This has nothing to do with sweetwater or Gibson's customer service so why try and bring them into this situation of problematic finishing and construction? This has to do with the builders of the guitars who sometimes do a poor job, which FWIW is unacceptable! Your level of expected quality is pretty low which is evident. I would also not dare someone to look at pictures on sweetwater's site, even Gibson's site and other retailers because they are out there and scary that they are so easy to spot.

 

Sorry for the confusion. I didn't say BFD to quality control, I said BFD to your opinions about it. [thumbup]

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As Great as they are, Gibson's are factory "mass produced" guitars! So, try as they might,

some will "slip through the cracks!" I've been buying, and using "Gibby's" since the early

1960's. So, I've seen almost "everything" in terms of fit and finish problems. Most weren't

serious, and those that were, they repaired or replaced, as they will do, now, if called for.

 

In my own (humble) experience, the "worst" offences occurred when Gibson was playing "catch up,"

on massive back orders (like after the flood, or the Government raids), and had to get as much

product out, to dealers, as possible in a short(er) period of time. My dealer, sent back several

guitars, as unacceptable (mostly finish problems), during that period. Gibson quickly replaced

them, and those were as close to perfect, as I've seen yet.

 

There's always been SOME talk, here, about "Shoddy QC," some valid, some not so much. But, in

reality, Gibson's quality is a LOT more consistent, instrument to instrument, than it was when

I first started using their guitars, back in the "Glory Days," of the Kalamazoo factory. That's

not to say they were bad, or worse...just that they had their own little quirks, not only in pickup

winding, but some handwork differences (bevels on SG's, neck radius's, etc.) as well. They still do,

but not as much, from what I have experienced.

 

Your own experience(s) may vary! [biggrin] And, remember, the Best QC person, is YOU! If it's not

up to snuff, simply don't buy it! In the case of mail order, or Internet purchases, use the return

policy. There are plenty of folks on this forum, that do that, as often as it takes, to get the

one they feel is up to their own standards. It can be a pain, but worth it, if you get "The One!"

Just try to be realistic, in your expectation(s), as well. "Perfect" is an ideal.

 

Cheers,

CB

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Thank you for posting the pics. I can see what you are talking about. The validation of your concerns is in your view of what is an appropriate level of perfection. In your situation, if you want a Gibson, then you need to really take the time to find the one you're looking for. Don't rush and just always watch for it. Once you find that guitar, you will then know why they are so special. Just know that when you are looking for that guitar you could pass up a massive number of great guitars looking for that one that is visually perfect. I still feel that they are putting out phenomenal instruments right now because they play so well out of the box. It wasn't always that way. Happy hunting though! Don't give up. :)

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I've been to the Memphis factory tour many times since they opened around 2000. You quickly realize that they are mass produced commodities. With thousands of guitars made a month, I'm actually impressed with the overall quality maintained by Gibson. I've seen guitars at the factory that look OK to me but they were slated to be destroyed!

 

Of course, there are minimum standards the product must meet; but many times defects are there due to use of natural materials. A certain amount do go out the door with what the customer perceived as defect or possibly damaged in transit. That's why stores have a return policy... should you be unhappy with your purchase. Customers have certain expectations that sometimes supersede and do not equate to the dollars they want to spend. If you are not satisfied...1) get a refund, 2) try another one, or 3) spend more to get the quality you want.

 

 

FWIW...

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  • 2 weeks later...

You read like you ride the train of bliss and drink the koolaid which is fine but you say, BFD to QC issues for that kind of money? This has nothing to do with sweetwater or Gibson's customer service so why try and bring them into this situation of problematic finishing and construction? This has to do with the builders of the guitars who sometimes do a poor job, which FWIW is unacceptable! Your level of expected quality is pretty low which is evident. I would also not dare someone to look at pictures on sweetwater's site, even Gibson's site and other retailers because they are out there and scary that they are so easy to spot.

 

This is typical of the techniques the Gibby Bashers use. They are aghast that anyone dare not buy into their false ideology.

I see this bunch is trying to do to this forum what they did at another well known Gibby forum. The Bashers have alredy taken over one section of this forum and they will eventually take over all of it. Their goal is to run Gibson Guitar Company out of business..

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I've looked at that f-hole picture a few times... I still don't see anything unusual with it. It looks better angular CNC cut than some of my 50 year old Kalamazoo ES axes. It's difficult to get a sharp cut on a 3-ply on the edge. The 3-ply edge will always look rough cut; unless there's binding to hide the 3-ply edge.

 

But then, I just play for fun and I don't spend that much time with a magnifying glass.

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Sitedrifter, can you tell, if the slight overlapping black paint is over the top of the clear coat, or underneath it?

IF it on top, you can (most likely) remove it, with polish, or a very very light, and careful sanding!

True, one shouldn't have to do that, but...if you like/love the guitar, otherwise, it would beat sending it

back, and risking another one, you don't like as much? And, if you're not comfortable doing the polish

sanding, you can have a qualified Luthier, do it for you. Just a thought.

 

CB

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  • 2 weeks later...

Would like to hear from other experiencing like situation

 

I bought a $289 MIC Xaviere XV900 from Guitar Fetish. Its what started this whole persuit into semi-hollow territory for me. Not a bad guitar. Scarf joint neck, its biggest detractor, and solid maple make it heavy. If you buy one of these, it is implied that you will be working on it. Nothing is tight. Nothing. But that's a plus, because every part should be replaced. I didn't know that at first.

 

After this one a real 335 came home and it has none of the same concerns. To compare them was unfair because the 335 was professional and the XV900 was a little leaguer. That wasn't going to stop me from improving upon the XV9.

 

Tuners were upped to Schaller locking 18:1, and these remain the nicest tuners I have. There is no string wrap with them, maybe 1/2 wrapped, and they are sensitive and respond well. The nut was too high as well, the truss rod loose, these two areas helped bring the guitar around to playable. Frets are the itty bitty ones, very playable. Once the neck was straight this eliminated the sharp notes at 1-5. The cheap plastic nut is hollow, when the shim is removed underneath it, gives it that extra 1 mil less space between string and fret, less sharps. I would complain about the nut, but strings glide though it SO well, I kept it. No pinching. Moving down to the bridge, I had rattle issues with retention springs at the saddles, so I ordered a piezo LRBaggs and CtrlX, which meant drilling some new holes. That's OK, it was $289. Wiring in all new parts was interesting, at first I enjoyed all the fishing... but soon became frustrating. I let the battery rattle around for a few weeks and it ended up taking out some solder joints, oops. For round 2 I found all the crap solder joints and clipped the 9V battery to the pick guard with a bread tie. Simple, household McGyvering. And then it was down to the mag pickups. Fat Pats were driving me nuts because any C note played anywhere around the neck was honking. I now realize pole pieces are adjustable, but the move to Gibson prompted me to add 57 classic pups in both positions. Now, it is all tight, been through a lengthy remodel, and has piezo on tap. The action was set to compare with a Gibson, but is not as low. I would have had to fill the maple bridge holes and redrill them to get my bridge lower, but instead have the barrel plugged into the existing barrel... double barrel. I don't recommend it. ;). I dropped the stop bar down tight to the body... you know where I'm going with this.

 

Now that everything is overhauled, now how do they compare? I tried to level the playing field. The XV9 sounds really cool, decent pickups helped this thing handle cranked amps and produce wonderful high gain sounds. And I would have never guessed that piezo bridges could enhance grind, when the feedback is controllable. Learning 'The Confessor', by Joe Walsh it was the first guitar I reached for, and it nailed it.

 

The 335 remains in original state. It is a wonderful charmer, bodacious is what I called it, probably not even a real word, but it is so loud and outspoken, low action, big frets, lotsa vibrato... and stunning. Gibsons controls are much better, silent switches, "Memphis Tone Circuit" that fine tunes mixing. Mahogany neck, priceless playablilty, and did I say stunning?

 

Overall diameter of the XV9 is larger than a 335. Horns are shaped a bit diff, pick guard is diff style. But these F holes are bound on a MIC, most every one I see is also detailed with 5 ply perimeter. But not the case with 335s, which are unbound at the F Holes. On mine, the wood is raw unfinished. I have no splintering. I have had no issues with my 335, compared to all of the operations the XV9 underwent. There is no comparison.

 

With all of that said, this Govt series 335 is a unique one, a keeper or a collector, because of its butt ugly appeals, surely wondrous tone, and of noted history, the right buyer will be enamored enough to remedy that F Hole. Or appreciate it as natural. Flaws can sometimes be admired as a signature from the factory. Wood grains are full of them.

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He's talking about the black finish that they put around the inside edge of the f-holes. Above the knob there is a slight over run onto the top of the guitar. For him, it is visually unappealing...does not effect the pick guard.

 

The F-Hole is chipped because the finishing work is poor either due to dull cutters on the CnC machine or poor finish sanding or both.

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I've looked at that f-hole picture a few times... I still don't see anything unusual with it. It looks better angular CNC cut than some of my 50 year old Kalamazoo ES axes. It's difficult to get a sharp cut on a 3-ply on the edge. The 3-ply edge will always look rough cut; unless there's binding to hide the 3-ply edge.

 

But then, I just play for fun and I don't spend that much time with a magnifying glass.

 

You have to look at guitars besides Gibson and you can't compare 50 year old technology to today using CnC machines. For example, anything Collings puts out is perfection and most of theirs do not have bindings.

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I get confused on what some call "poor craftsmanship" these days, especially on guitars that are generally revered because they are supposedly the same as the old ones.

 

What I mean is, a 335 is an old design. If you want a 335 built "right", then you might compare it to 60's 335's, right? I can say that the stuff memphis puts out today has a LOT less ""flaws"" (double quotations) than the stuff Kalamazoo made.

 

Find an old Gibson, especially the cheaper models, and look past the wear and tear. the effects of age and time, while lovingly admiring HOW something so "old" can still play and sound so good, and most of these would be sent back to "mail-order.com".

 

One of these days, someone is going to mail-order a vintage 50's/60's Gibson and sent it back for poor QC in a finish flaw that got overlooked because all people seemed to care about is how collectible it is for the past 3 generations.

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