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ES-335 Horror Story: Please Help


DavidJCruz

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I have a pretty big problem.

 

I am currently playing a 2013 Gibson ES-335 (bought brand new in 2013 from Steves Music Toronto) as my main guitar (with Fender Stratocaster or Ibanez AF 175 on the side). But my beloved 335 is having a serious truss rod issue.

 

About a year ago I took my guitar to a very reputable tech in the Toronto area named Mark Atkinson for a typical setup. He called me a couple days later with some bad news, he said that the truss rod in my guitar is broken and that it cannot tighten any further. That said, the neck was fairly straight and didn't need any immediate adjustment. Obviously this is a huge issue. He didn't have much in the way of remedying the situation, we discussed heat pressing the neck but we never went through with that.

 

He advised me to take it to where I bought it (Steves Music in Toronto) and discuss warranty procedures with them. So I did that, I brought the guitar in, and I explained the issue- the tech at Steve's said he didn't think anything was wrong with it, but that he would look.

 

He calls a week or so later saying that the guitar is fine and that he's given it a set up. So I pick up the guitar and everything looks good (Keep in mind, the neck was fairly straight before, that wasn't the issue). Over the next few days I talk about this situation with my teachers & guitar playing peers and they all agreed: it is VERY questionable that the Steves guy said the truss rod was fine. Because Mark Atkinson (the first tech I went to) has a spotless reputation, and also has no reason to lie to me about something like that- he would likely have not made a profit on fixing the guitar neck, and he advised me to investigate my warranty.

 

But Steve's...they wouldn't want to lose money replacing or repairing my $2500 guitar.

 

So all of this happens, but I am a university music student, so I really can't go very long without this guitar. So in the mean time I'm playing it all the time- practice, gigs, everything. And I'm not having any issues, but I'm also not adjusting the truss rod.

 

So about a year later (August 2015) I take it to a new tech to get a new nut cut for it. This new tech is Mike Smyth (Smitty), a highly respected Canadian guitar/pickup maker. I bring my guitar in and Smitty is very thorough, he assess my playing style, we discuss intonation, and every things good...then, he goes to adjust the truss rod. He tries to tighten it, and it really doesn't move. He spends more time looking at it and tells me what Mark Atkinson told me about a year earlier.

 

"Your truss rod is broken and can't be tightened any further".

 

He explained that truss rods on Gibson guitars are anchored up around the 17th fret or so, but that essentially my truss rod came "unanchored" and was moving closer towards the 15th fret. The procedure to fix this involves cutting open the fingerboard, pulling the truss rod back down, anchoring the truss rod again, and then re-doing the fingerboard that was ripped up in the process. That will cost me about $500.

 

Smitty's advice was to fix up my 335 as best as we can and then and sell it. He advised I buy something else.

 

So my dilemma is; I like this particular guitar, but the truss rod repair will cost $500,(I'm a student and $500 isn't cheap) and the neck/fingerboard has a curve to it that isn't ideal.

 

Would you sell this 335 and buy something else, or would you try and have it repaired?

 

Either way, I'm never buying a guitar from Steve's Music Toronto ever again, and I probably won't be buying another gibson.

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Sounds like a frustrating situation. What is the warranty period for Gibson in Canada? Have you tried approaching Gibson direct? Or the distributor? Or going back to the original retailer and insisting they demonstrate the truss rod to be working? Even if it's a year warranty, if the first time you took it back to the retailer was within the warranty period and they didn't resolve it then you may still have a case.

 

I wouldn't just sell it on unless you're selling with full disclosure, in which case you'll take a bath on it financially. Far better to try to resolve the situation through Gibson and/or the retailer.

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http://www2.gibson.com/Support/WarrantyRegistration/Gibson-USA-Guitar.aspx

 

Gibson USA and Custom Warranty

 

Your new Gibson instrument is warranted to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for the life of the original retail purchaser, subject to the limitations contained in this warranty.

 

If at any time this Gibson instrument malfunctions as a result of faulty materials or workmanship, Gibson will repair the defect(s) or replace the instrument, as it deems appropriate in its sole discretion. Gibson reserves the right to use materials regularly utilized at the time of repair in the event that original materials are no longer available. If replacement of your instrument is deemed appropriate by our staff, Gibson will replace the instrument with one of the same or most similar style of a value not in excess of the original purchase price of your instrument.

 

This warranty covers the cost of both labor and materials on any repair deemed necessary by our Customer Service Representative for the lifetime of the original purchaser. In the unlikely event that your instrument is destroyed, lost or damaged beyond repair, while in the possession of Gibson for repair,Gibson will replace that instrument with one of the same or most similar style of a value not in excess of the original purchase price of your instrument. Any insurance covering the instrument, including but not limited to collector's value insurance, must be carried by owner at owner's expense.

 

THIS WARRANTY IS EXTENDED TO THE ORIGINAL RETAIL PURCHASER ONLY AND MAY NOT BE TRANSFERRED OR ASSIGNED TO SUBSEQUENT OWNERS. IN ORDER TO VALIDATE YOUR WARRANTY, AND AS A CONDITION PRECEDENT TO WARRANTY COVERAGE HEREUNDER, YOU MUST RETURN YOUR WARRANTY REGISTRATION CARD WITHIN FIFTEEN (15) DAYS FOLLOWING THE ORIGINAL DATE OF PURCHASE. YOUR PROOF OF PURCHASE OR SALES RECEIPT MUST ACCOMPANY ALL REQUESTS FOR WARRANTY COVERAGE.

 

This Warranty Is Subject To The Following Limitations

 

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:

 

Any instrument that has been altered or modified in any way or upon which the serial number has been tampered with or altered.

Any instrument whose warranty card has been altered or upon which false information has been given.

Any instrument that has been damaged due to misuse, negligence, accident, or improper operation.

The subjective issue of tonal characteristics.

Shipping damages of any kind.

Any instrument that has been subjected to extremes of humidity or temperature

Normal wear and tear (i.e., worn frets, worn machine heads, worn plating, string replacement, scratched pickguards, or damages to or discoloration of the instrument finish for any reason).

Any instrument that has been purchased from an unauthorized dealer, or upon which unauthorized repair or service has been performed.

Any factory installed electronics after a period of one (I) year following the original date of purchase.

Cracking, discoloration or damage of any sort to the finish or plating for any reason.

Gibson does not warranty the playability of a instrument whose "action" is lower than the standard "action" as defined in the owners manual.

GIBSON MAKES NO OTHER EXPRESS WARRANTY OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER. ALL IMPLIED, WARRANTIES, INCLUDING WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, EXCEEDING THE SPECIFIC PROVISIONS OF THIS WARRANTY ARE HEREBY DISCLAIMED AND EXCLUDED FROM THIS WARRANTY. SOME STATES AND/OR COUNTRIES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES SO THAT THE ABOVE MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

 

GIBSON SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR OTHER SIMILAR DAMAGES SUFFERED BY THE PURCHASER OR ANY THIRD PARTY, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION. DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS OR BUSINESS OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE INSTRUMENT, WHETHER IN CONTRACT OR IN TORT, EVEN IF GIBSON OR ITS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, AND GIBSON SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY EXPENSES, CLAIMS, OR SUITS ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO ANY OF THE FOREGOING.

 

**Customers who purchased product outside the U.S should contact their local distributor for the handling and resolution of all warranty issues as the above-described Gibson Gold Warranty is not applicable.

 

How To Obtain Warranty Service

 

In the event of malfunction of your Gibson instrument, you should notify your nearest Authorized Gibson Dealer.

 

The Dealer or Owner must ship the instrument, freight and insurance pre-paid, to the nearest Authorized Gibson Service Center. If there is no Authorized Gibson Service Center near you, contact or have your dealer contact Gibson for information and an authorization to return the Instrument to Gibson. No instrument may be returned to Gibson without such prior Return Authorization. Only Authorized Gibson Service Centers may perform warranty service and any service performed by unauthorized persons will void this warranty. Gibson disclaims liability for defects or damage caused by services performed by unauthorized persons or non-warranty service not performed by Gibson or an Authorized Gibson Service Center.

 

When contacting Gibson, you must include a complete written description of the malfunction of the instrument. If non-warranty work is required or recommended by Gibson, a quotation will be issued and must be approved by you before any non-warranty work is commenced. You should consider quotations obtained for non-warranty work immediately and advise the Authorized Gibson Service Center or Gibson of your wishes. You are not required to purchase non-warranty work in order to obtain service on materials covered by this warranty. Following its inspection of an instrument upon its arrival, Gibson or the Authorized Gibson Service Center will advise you or your dealer of the approximate date of completion. The repaired instrument or part will be returned to you or your dealer, freight collect insured.

 

No representative or other person is authorized to assume for Gibson any liability except as stated in this warranty. This warranty gives you specific rights which vary from state to state or from country to country.

 

For further information, write:

Customer Service Dept.,

Gibson Guitar Corp.

PO Box 100087

Nashville, TN 37210-0087

Phone: 1-800-4GIBSON

Email: service@gibson.com

 

Sounds like it may be covered, unless it was damaged by misuse, or one of the tech's you used?

 

Contact Gibson, or a local authorized Gibson service/repair center, in your area. If you truly

Love the guitar, I'd say go ahead and Fix it!

 

Good Luck!

 

CB

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Contact Gibson. So far I'm not sure why you would be upset with Gibson since they have been completely out of the conversation. The good news is that since you are the original purchaser you can potentially get this fixed under warranty. You sell it, the buyer will not have that option. This should've been handled by the store that you bought it from. They send it to Gibson. Hopefully they would get you a loaner while your guitar is being repaired. Then you get your baby back good as new.

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... The good news is that since you are the original purchaser you can potentially get this fixed under warranty. ...

 

AFAIK, the Gibson lifetime warranty is only good in the USA. Outside of the USA warranties are usually limited to 1 year or less, or whatever the retailer warrants. Since it was purchased in 2013, the Gibson warranty is out of date.

 

 

.

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AFAIK, the Gibson lifetime warranty is only good in the USA. Outside of the USA warranties are usually limited to 1 year or less, or whatever the retailer warrants. Since it was purchased in 2013, the Gibson warranty is out of date..

 

And you may be 100% right on that. However I would bring ethics into the discussion and see if Gibson will do the right thing and not adhere to the fine print.

 

IF Gibson repairs it on their dime, they will likely have a customer for life and goodwill that will spread. Cheap and effective advertising.

 

If Gibson refuses to help but I really liked the guitar I would set it in the closet until I had the $500. And Gibson would lose a lifetime customer. And their name would be forever besmirched in my conversations with other players. They won the battle but lost the war.

 

If Gibson will not help and the guitar is so-so I would dump it as is with full disclosure and acceptance that I will take a financial hit. Take the hit, walk away, go buy something 'not' in the Gibson family and then post pictures of you smiling with it.

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... However I would bring ethics into the discussion ....

 

Yes, but I would say the ethics of the repair shops/techs, and or OP. I'm suspect of this whole situation. There has not been nearly enough technical information given here to make ANY assumption whatsoever as to cause, effect, remedy or responsibility.

 

Maybe it's just semantics, but this statement really makes no sense, "Your truss rod is broken and can't be tightened any further".. A "broken" truss rod IS NOT one that "cannot tighten any further". If it is "broken", the rod will either spin freely, fall out, or both.

 

... "He explained that truss rods on Gibson guitars are anchored up around the 17th fret or so, but that essentially my truss rod came "unanchored" and was moving closer towards the 15th fret."

 

WHAT... is the truss rod sticking out of the headstock 1"? That's about the distance between the 15th and 17th frets.

 

... "the neck was fairly straight and didn't need any immediate adjustment."...

 

In some sort of fashion, the truss rod IS doing it's job, otherwise the neck would be bowed.

 

"And I'm not having any issues, but I'm also not adjusting the truss rod."

 

A truss rod adjustment is not something you do, or need to do, very often. I've literally gone decades without touching the truss rod on some of my guitars. On my "working" guitars I do an annual dis-assembly and major cleaning and setup. An annual truss rod check/adjustment is usually adequate.

 

This whole situation sounds to me like the nut has simply bottomed out on the treads of the rod. For what reason? Maybe the treads were cut a little short, maybe the anchorage block is a little close, maybe the anchorage washer has been pressed slightly into the wood, maybe the washer under the adjusting nut is missing or has pressed slightly into the wood.

 

It's seems to me the solutions is to simply put a couple of brass washers under the truss rod adjusting nut......DONE! As recommended adjustments are 1/4 turn, this will give plenty of adjustment room.

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Lose the guy who told you to sell it. Dont dump your problem on someone else. Not good karma dude. Fix it and then sell it. or fix it then keep it and play it. Reason I feel this way, is I am usually the guy who unknowingly buys a guitar with a broken truss rod from somone who wants another, and then it is my problem. I have been stuck before, and I am sure it will happen to me again. If you cant afford to fix it, atleast disclose the problem when you sell it.

 

Anyway. Good luck man.

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The description of the truss rod problem is not clear...I don't know what the luthiers see...difficult to diagnose from a hearsay description.

 

The suggestion of adding washers could help, assuming the wood could have been overly compressed by someone (?)...wasn't this bought new? But then, I would think the experienced luthiers would/should know how to deal with it.

 

I don't know why a truss rod anchor would move.. it's anchored almost to the end of the 20th fret...more than likely compressed wood and not enough thread remaining by the headstock to allow tightenting.

 

126435d1415094601-long-tenon-neck-tenon.jpg

 

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Either something is missing in the story, or your tech people have limited experience.

 

As Larry says, if the truss rod's adjusting nut will not turn, that does not necessarily mean the rod is broken.

 

If the nut appears to be bottomed out in the cavity, with threads protruding out the backside of the adjusting nut, there is indeed a very good chance some wood compression has occurred. This compression might be next to the adjusting nut & half-moon washer which rests against the nut, at the far anchoring end of the rod, or a combination of compression at both ends.

 

Take the nut off, leave the half-moon washer in place, and add enough additional washers so that the rod's threads are no longer protruding out the backside of the adjusting nut. I cannot tell you the exact size, but I've done this with small stainless steel round washers from the hardware store (they must be small enough to slide freely onto the rod without binding against the wood).

 

In my case, I was dealing with a 2010 ES-330L. This fix allowed the rod to again function properly. Five years down the road, it's holding just fine, and the rod remains fully adjustable.

 

Note that care must be taken in retightening the rod, so take your guitar to a person familiar with Gibsons if you are not confident in tackling this. In the USA, Gibson has authorized repair persons in each state, but I'm not sure about Canada, so you should check with customer service.

 

Edit: Just checked Bence's Stew-Mac link, which greatly helps in visually clarifying this technique.

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Looks like the OP is LONG GONE. 2 posts and out.

 

Did no one else get that fishy smell right from the start of this topic (and it's duplicate in another category)?

 

Hello Larry!

 

It is what it is. Horror stories about Gibson quality all over the net... then I never met anyone in person who owns one complaining...

 

Never mind! There is a good side to all bad things: at least, we have learned about something new.

 

Best wishes... Bence

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To be honest, I took it on face value then read your post and did a bit of a face palm, I should have picked up on that sort of stuff. As to the OP, who knows, perhaps he was here to provoke a reaction from Gibson and someone got in contact.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am pleased the person reached out to us, a forum of Gibson fans can only be of great use and support. And Memphis is actually quite new with a mere 159 entries as of today. We are here for you. Great job guys.

 

What are you talking about?

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What are you talking about?

 

I was complimenting you on the great job helping a concerned owner. In that post I also suggested how 'Nice' we (by we, I refer to all of the forum users) can be to provide the good word or advice to those who may seem disgruntled, troubled with their guitar, setup difficulties, failures, or otherwise. This was in reply to Steve, above mine, and the preceding posts questioning whether the OP was still around. Also, I mentioned the new Memphis section, which did not exist only months ago. Not only that, there was no forum for semi-hollow users, aside from 'all other'. It is good to have the Memphis section, good to finally have a chat section for semi and hollow owners. Good to be able to help others with similar interests. If that's too much 'positives' let me know. I'll lay off the sugar coating...

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I'm interested to see what the end result turns out to be. Retailer says no problem, independents say big problem, customer is unfamiliar with truss rod adjustment so is unsure who to believe.

 

I'm sure the importer will get it taken care of. Gibson is a good company and they stand behind their product.

 

I run a portion of a stereo site which deals with planar speakers (Magnepan, Martin Logan, Sound Lab, Quad, that kind of stuff) and when the owners experience difficulties with some sort of QC issue (real or imagined) I always tell them Contact The Manufacturer and then report back.

Don't give the manufacturer a black eye if they don't deserve it.

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