Gibson Guitar Board: pickguard disintegration and corrosion of gold parts - Gibson Guitar Board

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pickguard disintegration and corrosion of gold parts Pick guard disintegration out gassing

#41 User is offline   stein 

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 04:31 PM

View PostMaxiumburnN, on 06 October 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

And the canard that Gibson is actually making the new guitars just like vintage is totally false 1960s L5's for instance has a bridge that has some sort of plastic inserts in the saddles which gives the guitar a distinctive sound the new Gibsons have metal or wooden bridges. when is Gibson going to start making those bridges for the new L5.?

Perhaps before you learn about what type of bridge is "supposed" to go on what guitar, when certain bridges were used, you might do better to learn about what Pickgaurds are "supposed" to be on what guitars, and when certain pickguards were used.
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#42 User is offline   capmaster 

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 04:53 PM

View PostMaxiumburnN, on 06 October 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

And the canard that Gibson is actually making the new guitars just like vintage is totally false 1960s L5's for instance has a bridge that has some sort of plastic inserts in the saddles which gives the guitar a distinctive sound the new Gibsons have metal or wooden bridges. when is Gibson going to start making those bridges for the new L5.?

I think they will analyse the molecular structure of these plastics and make true replicas before releasing an L-5 reissue.

View PostMaxiumburnN, on 06 October 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

Furthermore if it pick guard is toxic which means that ihas a potential to harm a human being why on earth would Gibson continue to make that.?
I hope you guys could forward this discussion to your legal department. Because you guys don't know how to handle this question.

Pickguards were made from celluloid like baby dolls were then. I never wanted to play with those of my younger sister but I liked their smell of camphor. [biggrin]

The danger of being harmful to health is negligible compared to that of self-ignition over 38°C or circa 100°F. Beware of storing items like the one pictured below in the attic!

Posted Image
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#43 User is online   badbluesplayer 

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 07:31 AM

You're the original owner of these guitars, right? Just show us copies of your receipts for the guitar before anybody goes any further. If you are not the original owner, there's no use for you to be crabbing at everybody any more. If you are the original owner of any of them, then take pix and post them. Then you won't be wasting anybody's time any more. If you didn't buy the guitars new yourself, then forget it. I'm assuming you're not the original owner, because you said what people always say when they're not the original owner.
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#44 User is offline   Searcy 

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 10:04 AM

Nitro rott... read all about it.
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#45 User is offline   MaxiumburnN 

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 10:20 AM

View Postbadbluesplayer, on 07 October 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

You're the original owner of these guitars, right? Just show us copies of your receipts for the guitar before anybody goes any further. If you are not the original owner, there's no use for you to be crabbing at everybody any more. If you are the original owner of any of them, then take pix and post them. Then you won't be wasting anybody's time any more. If you didn't buy the guitars new yourself, then forget it. I'm assuming you're not the original owner, because you said what people always say when they're not the original owner.



It doesn't matter if I am the original owner. It is a defective product. The fact that some of them were bought used and some where bought new with the same problem only re-enforces my claim. And why would I show my receipts??? I don't know you and you're not trying to help. It is the light brown tortoise shell pick guards that have this problem.
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#46 User is offline   Searcy 

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 10:23 AM

View PostMaxiumburnN, on 11 August 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

So that's all I'm going to say on this topic fellas.

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#47 User is offline   stein 

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 11:13 AM

View PostMaxiumburnN, on 07 October 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

It doesn't matter if I am the original owner. It is a defective product.

It's really the only thing that is relevant.

What you own, what you bought, is only between you and the seller. If you have a problem with the merchandise, then you take it up with the one you did business with. The one who YOU bought it from.

Why should anyone be held responsible for a transaction they had no part of?

You really expect Gibson to give you a dime when you yourself never did business with Gibson? Never paid them a cent yourself?

Think about it: All YOUR complaints with these guitars, and what you think Gibson should do, could have very well been addressed between the "original" purchaser and the dealer they bought it from.
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#48 User is offline   stein 

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 11:15 AM

View Postcapmaster, on 06 October 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

I think they will analyse the molecular structure of these plastics and make true replicas before releasing an L-5 reissue.


Pickguards were made from celluloid like baby dolls were then. I never wanted to play with those of my younger sister but I liked their smell of camphor. [biggrin]

The danger of being harmful to health is negligible compared to that of self-ignition over 38C or circa 100F. Beware of storing items like the one pictured below in the attic!

Posted Image

Never store your baby in an attic or a place that gets to 100 degress F.
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#49 User is offline   MaxiumburnN 

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 11:53 AM

So Steins logic is that if somebody buys an item secondhand from a company that makes the defective product that the company is no longer responsible but the person who sold it to them is responsible for that only??

If that were the case no cars would ever be recalled if they're sold secondhand that's ridiculous logic and US law does not support that argument because it is defective.
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#50 User is offline   stein 

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 12:24 PM

View PostMaxiumburnN, on 11 October 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

So Steins logic is that if somebody buys an item secondhand from a company that makes the defective product that the company is no longer responsible but the person who sold it to them is responsible for that only??

If that were the case no cars would ever be recalled if they're sold secondhand that's ridiculous logic and US law does not support that argument because it is defective.

Yup. It's a matter of personal responsibility. Something lacking more and more.

If a person is unwilling to take responsibility for their own actions, it is impossible to be able to judge others for THEIR actions.

This is a perfect example. You want to hold Gibson responsible for your guitars. But since you don't want to take responsibility for what you had and how to store them, you fail to see that what you would want Gibson to do for YOU would hurt others more than you would benefit.

If you can't see where you are responsible for your part, how can you be trusted to be responsible for your effect on other people?

Gibson built the guitar right. You stored them wrong. If Gibson was to then build them to be stored the way you want to store them, that line of reissues would then be made "wrong". And the majority who want these would not get what they want.
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#51 User is offline   MaxiumburnN 

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 07:06 PM

Yeah the manufactures always try to blame the defective part on the person who's operating whatever the machinery or the car or whatever and it takes a court case to show them what time of day it is. But nowadays the public sympathizes with the people.
If you work for Gibson a better time to wise up
You can't hang with the debate bro give it up..
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#52 User is offline   capmaster 

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 09:30 PM

View PostMaxiumburnN, on 11 October 2015 - 07:06 PM, said:

Yeah the manufactures always try to blame the defective part on the person who's operating whatever the machinery or the car or whatever and it takes a court case to show them what time of day it is. But nowadays the public sympathizes with the people.
If you work for Gibson a better time to wise up
You can't hang with the debate bro give it up..

In your first post you had added a link to this picture:

Posted Image

Sorry, but this is a photo of a badly neglected guitar. Merely the strings speak volumes of prolonged disregard and mistreatment. I have seen a lot, but I never saw a guitar looking like this. [crying]

I'm in doubt if there's a chance to bring out public sympathy for the owner.
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#53 User is offline   stein 

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 09:59 PM

View Postcapmaster, on 11 October 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

In your first post you had added a link to this picture:

Posted Image

Sorry, but this is a photo of a badly neglected guitar. Merely the strings speak volumes of prolonged disregard and mistreatment. I have seen a lot, but I never saw a guitar looking like this. [crying]

I'm in doubt if there's a chance to bring out public sympathy for the owner.

This is not his guitar.

I'm embarrassed to say, but I think we have fallen for a troll.
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#54 User is offline   capmaster 

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 09:18 AM

View Poststein, on 11 October 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

This is not his guitar.

I'm embarrassed to say, but I think we have fallen for a troll.

This is my impression, too. The guitar pictured in his first post even wasn't a Gibson.

Does he own any guitar at all?
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#55 User is offline   MaxiumburnN 

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 01:21 PM

It is clear all you mother****ers work for the company.
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#56 User is offline   capmaster 

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 02:15 PM

View PostMaxiumburnN, on 12 October 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

It is clear all you mother****ers work for the company.

Why the mofos only? Clearly all of us here are affiliated with the company, regardless if mofo or not.

What company?

;)
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#57 User is offline   Sitedrifter 

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 05:57 PM

This is normal and Gibson says so. It is called Historic accuracy.

Really it is crap materials Gibson used.
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#58 User is offline   j45nick 

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 07:59 PM

I just happened to notice this thread, as it is not a sub-forum I usually post in.

As has been pointed out, the celluloid used in most vintage pickguards--and some high-end modern reproductions--can be both chemically unstable, and highly volatile. Most modern "plastic" pickguards are non-celluloid materials that try to emulate--not always successfully--the look of celluloid.

I have only purchased one vintage guitar with a disintegrating celluloid pickguard--ironically, a 1947 Gibson L-7 archtop. Not only was the pickguard starting to go, it had damaged the adjacent finish, the frets were starting to discolor, and the screws holding the pickguard had rusted.

I removed it, and put it in a Ziploc bag, whereupon it started to deteriorate at a fairly rapid pace, basically decomposing into a sticky mush.

This phenomenon is well-known, and is not unique to Gibson. You also see it in the "tortoise"-look body binding of guitars from the 1960's and 1970's, particularly. As has been pointed out, storing a guitar in a tight-fitting case and never taking it out will aggravate and accelerate the problem, once it starts, but I don't know if it can actually initiate this type of decomposition.

Aa far as I can tell, it's completely unpredictable which pieces will deteriorate, and when. By the way, I believe the old "plastic" tuner knobs are also celluloid-based, and can deteriorate over time in a similar fashion.

It may have something to do with the manufacturing process, which involves taking thick blocks of celluloid and slicing it into the thin pieces that later can become pickguards. I don't know whether those slices need to air-cure until out-gassing is complete, or what. Similar problems can occur with other types of plastics, by the way. I've seen a few large fiberglass boats that literally needed hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of repair to replace blistering, out-gassing plastic materials.

If this had happened on my new guitar, I would be upset, but I don't think any big-name guitar manufacturers use celluloid for the typical plastic parts these days. On vintage guitars, we understand it is a risk. I do check my vintage guitars regularly for signs of celluloid deterioration.

For the record, when I have repro pickguards made for vintage guitars, I insist on---celluloid.

Just so you know, the beautiful lacquer finish on your high-end modern or vintage Gibson or Martin is nitrocellulose lacquer, chemically a close cousin to the pickguard's material.

I'm sorry for the OP's problem, but it's hard to see Gibson as liable for using what were industry-standard materials with a now-recognized but rare downside potential. Nitrocellulose lacquer can craze, but we generally accept that as part of the normal aging process. If the OP had bought the guitar brand new, and stored it in the case, I suspect that Gibson would step it up and make it right. But that warranty is not transferable.
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#59 User is offline   MaxiumburnN 

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 11:56 AM

View Postj45nick, on 26 October 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

I just happened to notice this thread, as it is not a sub-forum I usually post in.

As has been pointed out, the celluloid used in most vintage pickguards--and some high-end modern reproductions--can be both chemically unstable, and highly volatile. Most modern "plastic" pickguards are non-celluloid materials that try to emulate--not always successfully--the look of celluloid.

I have only purchased one vintage guitar with a disintegrating celluloid pickguard--ironically, a 1947 Gibson L-7 archtop. Not only was the pickguard starting to go, it had damaged the adjacent finish, the frets were starting to discolor, and the screws holding the pickguard had rusted.

I removed it, and put it in a Ziploc bag, whereupon it started to deteriorate at a fairly rapid pace, basically decomposing into a sticky mush.

This phenomenon is well-known, and is not unique to Gibson. You also see it in the "tortoise"-look body binding of guitars from the 1960's and 1970's, particularly. As has been pointed out, storing a guitar in a tight-fitting case and never taking it out will aggravate and accelerate the problem, once it starts, but I don't know if it can actually initiate this type of decomposition.

Aa far as I can tell, it's completely unpredictable which pieces will deteriorate, and when. By the way, I believe the old "plastic" tuner knobs are also celluloid-based, and can deteriorate over time in a similar fashion.

It may have something to do with the manufacturing process, which involves taking thick blocks of celluloid and slicing it into the thin pieces that later can become pickguards. I don't know whether those slices need to air-cure until out-gassing is complete, or what. Similar problems can occur with other types of plastics, by the way. I've seen a few large fiberglass boats that literally needed hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of repair to replace blistering, out-gassing plastic materials.

If this had happened on my new guitar, I would be upset, but I don't think any big-name guitar manufacturers use celluloid for the typical plastic parts these days. On vintage guitars, we understand it is a risk. I do check my vintage guitars regularly for signs of celluloid deterioration.

For the record, when I have repro pickguards made for vintage guitars, I insist on---celluloid.

Just so you know, the beautiful lacquer finish on your high-end modern or vintage Gibson or Martin is nitrocellulose lacquer, chemically a close cousin to the pickguard's material.

I'm sorry for the OP's problem, but it's hard to see Gibson as liable for using what were industry-standard materials with a now-recognized but rare downside potential. Nitrocellulose lacquer can craze, but we generally accept that as part of the normal aging process. If the OP had bought the guitar brand new, and stored it in the case, I suspect that Gibson would step it up and make it right. But that warranty is not transferable.

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#60 User is offline   LP335175L5 

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 08:34 AM

Hi,
If for your playing pickguard is unnecessary, so removed this ;)
+ : Archtop's make even more beautiful.
Maybe avoid trouble . . :)
C.
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