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Living in the material world


E-minor7

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Okay, this belongs in the Strings-Nuts-Saddles-Pins - section and will be posted there as well.

 

But, , , , in the spring I decided to learn how to carve'n'craft my own nuts over summer.

It's a splendid thing to be able to do, 1 to avoid the price at the luthier, 2 for the enormous thrill it is to bring the exact right spacing on to your favorite guitars.

 

Made about 6 until now and it doesn't happen one after the other. Whenever the spirit is there I move – not least because it takes quite an amount of concentration as you don't want to fail by fx getting one groove too deep after everything else is right and ready.

 

Wednesday it was time to replace the pre-slotted black tusq factory made PT 6010-00 on the re-necked 1966 Country Western with a piece of waterbuffalo horn - also black.

The hardest part is to get the 5 spaces between the strings identical – first by knifing the extremely precise measured pencil-marks, then by accurate special-tool filing.

But there I went and it turned out good.

However it wasn't really the succes I thought. Yes, the thing provided more room, which was nice, but the sound, , , , was different.

 

I have never been a big believer in sonic effects of nut material. That definitely changed.

And I'm absolutely sure as the two blackies have been on and off in 4 rounds (also because I needed to file a bit more each time).

 

The horn might be smoother – more elegant and classy. It's not bad at all.

 

But the tusq delivers a more pronounced hyper warm tone, which probably in comparison leans a degree toward the primitive.

It simply blends better with the rest of the components and my playing.

 

Ahaa, , , ergo the tusq is back on and though it's possible to live with it, the new spacing was fantastic. This means there only one way to go now :

Get a piece of clean tusq and begin again.

In fact I already ordered 2 blank black blocks this morning - PT 4025-00's - and can't wait to continue the experiment.

Will the new one sound as good as the replaced. Will I hit bulls eye with the flown in home-carved spacy tusq, , , or is this pre-cut 6010-00'er something real special, hehehe. . .

 

September will tell – I will report.

 

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You are a brave brave soul. I did this exactly once. Looks awful, but sounds great, go figure. Got this link in my emil today - great timing. http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Trade_Secrets/setting_the_string_spacing_at_the_bridge.html?lac_guid=45f76b5f-084d-e511-b169-bc305bee17b9&utm_campaign=ts0248&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

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Mmmmmm, well thanks, Duluth - but I don't believe there are any big risks involved in this process.

 

You go slow and careful, all senses open and if the thing fails, a block of bone, horn or tusq is affordable :-)

 

Remember the original is always there on the table.

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I have a lot of admiration for this. I don't think I'd have the patience.

 

I've got a Martin M-36 with an Italian Alpline spruce top. It is a phenomenal guitar, but it peels the paint from the walls. I have tried many things to tame it. Putting a capo on does the trick, which makes me wonder if a "quieter" nut might also help. (I did try sticking in a Tusq saddle, which doesn't seem to have much effect.) Maybe a Tusq or ebony or Grafteq nut or something... if I had the skill, which I don't. :)

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Making nuts is a piece of cake. I just read the directions in this book I'm reading:

 

Measure the space between the inner edges of the two E strings, subtract the total thicknesses of the remaining four strings, divide the result by five (for the five remaining spaces), take the result and measure that much in from the inside edges of the E strings. That tells you where the outside edges of the B and A strings should go. Cut slots for B and A. Rinse and repeat.

Yeah, I think I'll just pay someone to do it.

 

I admire your industriousness to learn to do this EM7. Despite the math in the paragraph above, I think the precision of getting it right would be kinda zen-like. Very cool.

 

 

FMA

 

(Paragraph above stolen from p. 303 of Guitar: an American Life, by Tim Brookes. A good read.)

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I admire your industriousness to learn to do this EM7. Despite the math in the paragraph above, I think the precision of getting it right would be kinda zen-like. Very cool.

 

No impressing craftsman with hammer, nails, screwdriver and saw, so doin' something related in an smaller scale is quite satisfying.

We all need little private victories.

 

Btw. was out of town this weekend and after comin' home the first thing to do was to re-check the nut-sounds with clean ears.

Simply because I found it hard to believe the difference is that significant (well, significant in the micro way).

So back and forth the tusq and horn went and I'm absolutely sure the same changes was heard.

 

Way to test :

 

Built up a 5-6 riffs and short examples of playing styles in certain chord-changes you really like and know inside-out.

Use them with extreme focus each time you A/B anything between guitars.

And have faith in you are able to learn to sense beyond the normal frame of listening - fx like a pro musician, producer and engineer in a studio situation.

 

In this tusq/horn case the most obvious check position is a fingerpicked G chord in dropped D with D note on the B string and the pinky doin' an A on the high E.

But also ordinary flatpicking like Young's Tell Me Why in the Salvation-Army-chord zone works fine.

 

 

So there we are - I'm another man on the topic whether I like it (or you believe it) or not.

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How do they do the nut cutting (yikes) at the Gibson factory?

 

Surely they have a template for the first cut of every slot, or they would be doing them over and over just like Em7?

 

I had a look on StewMac but they don't appear to have anything except a little ruler with spacings marked. Too much room for error for me - I have had new bone nuts with the high E too close to the B strind and even the plain old cowboy C chord is impossible - so I would want something more definite.

 

On another track, my OM28 Marquis came with Fossilized Walrus Ivory nut, saddle an pins and I really like them. A thread I read claimed the FWI was used to 'soften' the sound of the stiff Adi top over EIR in the OM shape and bone gave the wood combination a brittle sound until the top broke in over the years. Have you tried FWI, Em7?

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

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Have you tried FWI, Em7?

Have not, but would like to. Not on the CW mentioned above tho. This particular guitar simply hits bulls eye with tusq.

 

The difficult part of slotting is that the 2 E's in relation to the fretboard width itself as step 1, defines the 5 spaces between all 6 strings.

That of course is if you want to change the spacing. If you only go for new material, it would be fairly easy to copy the factory grooves from the original.

 

But hey, , , might try FWI on another western at some point. Why not. .

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On another track, my OM28 Marquis came with Fossilized Walrus Ivory nut, saddle an pins and I really like them. A thread I read claimed the FWI was used to 'soften' the sound of the stiff Adi top over EIR in the OM shape and bone gave the wood combination a brittle sound until the top broke in over the years. Have you tried FWI, Em7?

 

Interesting... My M-36 is definitely glassy-sounding, maybe similar to brittle, and I don't think a little softening would be the worst thing... It is EIR, same shape as an OM (just larger)--different bracing... Italian Alpine spruce maybe shares some qualities with red spruce in that it's not as "soft" as sitka in tone.

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I have been meaning to cut a new nut for my old resonator - what tools are you using to do the cuts?

 

You should give it a go, , , , or two. It's a good challenge.

 

After the pencil-marks are made correctly - (often have to erase and redo them twice/trice) - I pre-cut with a knife.

 

Then this set is brought on. Fairly simple and I'm sure there are better options, but it works, , , , as long you are able to filter out the right file.

 

http://i62.tinypic.com/2vb22jt.jpg

 

After that a good buff and perhaps some pencil-graphite in the grooves.

 

 

 

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I tried doing it a few times after buying all of the files and a bunch of Colossi bone blanks. Never again, I ruined 3 nut blanks so I call that a lesson learned. Find a good tech and you can spend more time playing your guitar rather than working on it.

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How do you stabilize the nut while filing? Just hold it in your hands or do you have a teeny tiny vice?

 

Hold it tight with 3 fingers on the table.

 

In the final round when the finer adjustments take place, the nut is on the guitar and held in place by the stings which aren't removed.

 

1-2-3 at a time - and with the tr-cover and headstock lacquer protected by a slice of thin cartboard or a ditto pick. Important as you want the right downwards slot-angle.

 

 

 

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I'm having a really hard time finding ebony nut and saddle blanks. Going to make the local repair guy do it though. :)

 

Ahaa, , , never heard of ebony nuts. Please tell about the sound change. It'll probably be quite obvious.

 

And are you talking ordinary sized ebony saddle ?

 

 

 

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Ahaa, , , never heard of ebony nuts. Please tell about the sound change. It'll probably be quite obvious.

 

And are you talking ordinary sized ebony saddle ?

 

Yep, just a regular saddle and regular nut. I'm hoping it will be kind of a more mild, woody sound than bone! I know people say Tusq is supposed to sound more mild, but that hasn't been my experience.

 

A fellow on the UMGF recently swapped his J-35's Tusq nut/saddle for ebony (that he found in a ukulele kit and modified himself), and he's really happy. He said it took away the cutting brightness the modern J-35 is known for. I have to wonder what bone would have done.

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Yep, just a regular saddle and regular nut. I'm hoping it will be kind of a more mild, woody sound than bone! I know people say Tusq is supposed to sound more mild, but that hasn't been my experience.

 

A fellow on the UMGF recently swapped his J-35's Tusq nut/saddle for ebony (that he found in a ukulele kit and modified himself), and he's really happy. He said it took away the cutting brightness the modern J-35 is known for. I have to wonder what bone would have done.

 

Tell us about it if you succeed - it's really something else.

 

From the adjustable inserts we know rosewood/ebony makes the voice of a guitar 20 to 30 % mellower. I'm almost certain you will experience the same.

 

But exchange the nut first and report about that before the saddle goes the same way. The effect of an ebony nut with the rest of the components untouched is highly interesting.

 

 

 

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Tell us about it if you succeed - it's really something else.

 

From the adjustable inserts we know rosewood/ebony makes the voice of a guitar 20 to 30 % mellower. I'm almost certain you will experience the same.

 

But exchange the nut first and report about that before the saddle goes the same way. The effect of an ebony nut with the rest of the components untouched is highly interesting.

 

Well, the way I figure, the nut only has an effect on open strings, so if I capo, I won't hear it. (I've noticed this because I use my capo a lot to mellow out the guitar!) But saddles are easy to swap in and out and examine the differences, too! I think I will have him leave the nut unglued too so I can also swap that in and out... It will definitely be interesting. I have a feeling I might like it enough that I might want to swap other guitars' nuts (!) too.

 

By the way, I can't remember if I mentioned, but I couldn't find any wood blanks at all. So, I ordered an African Blackwood bridge blank and am hoping the local dude can just cut that up into a nut and saddle. I also bought some buffalo horn nut/saddle blanks, figuring if he laughs in my face at the bridge blank, I can at least get him to work the horn for me (oh man all the puns tonight). I had assumed horn would be the same as bone, but apparently bone is mellower. I doubt it's as mellow as wood, though??

 

NutSlotCompare.jpg

 

 

Keith

 

I hope my luthier has one of those! :)

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Did something extraordinary yesterday :

 

One of the reasons I'm interested in replacing the (black) tusq nut is that the low E groove is a hair too deep when the guitar is perfect set (neck angle, saddle height and the other 5 slots).

 

Got the idea melted plastic - instead of glue and bone-powder - could do the trick.

 

Found one of those flexible plastic clams with a thin steel wire in it, which is used fx around a bag of bread, then lit up a candle.

Lifted the 'clam' into the flame and after testing the nature of this experiment a few times, quickly placed the dripping stick over the E-slot.

The melted material hit precisely where it should and neatly coated the hole zone with a fine layer of plast, which naturally hardened faster than fast.

Blew air on the area and waited a while. Removed a stiffened minor stain from the fret-board then cringed the fat E string back in place. Voila - done - YES

 

A micro-metre up it went and now is perfectos.

I frankly couldn't believe this luck, but there it was, no extra filing needed at all.

 

How does it look ? Well, the operation was done after midnite and the light was not optimal (a bit hazardous, but I used a looking glass).

First thing to do this Saturday morning of course was to evaluate the result. Still immaculate.

The whole zone between the E-slot and the end of the nut is smoother than this world.

Besides the surface is high closs so if you know it and zoom in, a small difference is noticeable. No aesthetical issue as it's only covers a 10th of the entire nut.

 

It's still sounds as if it worked too. Don't know if tuning back'n'forth between E and dropped D will wear the plast - we'll see.

 

Can only recommend the stunt so far.

 

'Ave a good weekend

 

 

 

Must be added that the clam for a good start is black like the tusq. Would of course have used white had it been a white nut.

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EM7, good read. i agree - piddling like this is rewarding at several different levels. I've got a nice piece of FWI which I got 10 years ago to make into a knife handle. It's a tad small - so I've held off doing it. Maybe a couple of nuts would be fun.

Made one of those fancy, raised, carved bridges for a 5 string banjo a few years back - beautiful, fiddleback maple with an ebony insert on top for the strings. Just finished it and someone broke in and stole the banjo before I put it on. Too tall for the new banjo - so it sits in my sock drawer.

How do you remove the original nuts? Do you glue the replacement when done? What kind of glue? Thanks!

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EM7, good read. i agree - piddling like this is rewarding at several different levels. I've got a nice piece of FWI which I got 10 years ago to make into a knife handle. It's a tad small - so I've held off doing it. Maybe a couple of nuts would be fun.

Made one of those fancy, raised, carved bridges for a 5 string banjo a few years back - beautiful, fiddleback maple with an ebony insert on top for the strings. Just finished it and someone broke in and stole the banjo before I put it on. Too tall for the new banjo - so it sits in my sock drawer.

How do you remove the original nuts? Do you glue the replacement when done? What kind of glue? Thanks!

 

Thanks - Step 1 is to use a little knife or free blade where the nut meets the surroundings.

Then a right-sized block of wood is held against nut from the fretboard side - and gently gogged off like nothing with a hammer or hammerish tool.

 

No I actually don't use glue at the moment. Maybe because I'm on the learning curve and predict the ones made could be improved.

The strings hold the thing down - which gives the ability to micro adjust. This is after all experimenting with spacing - also from the E's to the neck edges.

 

Some would say glue is necessary to get max sound - I'm not sure why.

 

The hardened glue is a layer between the materials and though it probably transmits vibes fine, I believe the strings press the nut in absolute contact with the even sanded headstock-base without it. (Done with light sandpaper tight around a wooden ruler-like paint-blender-stick).

 

 

 

Who knows - might glue when time is right.

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Thanks - Step 1 is to use a little knife or free blade where the nut meets the surroundings.

Then a right-sized block of wood is held against nut from the fretboard side - and gently gogged off like nothing with a hammer or hammerish tool.

 

No I actually don't use glue at the moment. Maybe because I'm on the learning curve and predict the ones made could be improved.

The strings hold the thing down - which gives the ability to micro adjust. This is after all experimenting with spacing - also from the E's to the neck edges.

 

Some would say glue is necessary to get max sound - I'm not sure why.

 

The hardened glue is a layer between the materials and though it probably transmits vibes fine, I believe the strings press the nut in absolute contact with the even sanded headstock-base without it. (Done with light sandpaper tight around a wooden ruler-like paint-blender-stick).

 

 

 

Who knows - might glue when time is right.

 

Thanks.

Maybe I'll try a saddle before a nut. I've just fine-tuned Colosi's pre-cut ones at this point - might buy some blanks. Crawl before I run.

I can see how the glue might completely seal any minute gaps, sanding irregularities.

One small thing I learned - the best way is by making the mistake myself - is to do all of the fine, final sanding and finishing before you glue. If you try to sand in a 90degree space - you'll scratch the headstock, even if protected - as you try to get right down in the space where they meet.

Again - rewarding at many different levels.

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