Zentar Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 See how the bridge appears flat all the way across? Check closely this pic. You can see the screws are arched(radius). The screws are not in a straight line. Look at the rails the saddles move in forwards and back as you intonate them. See the depth of the outside railing is deeper than the next inside string and the two inside string rails are the most shallow. The saddles are all identical. It is their location that determines their height and the bridges' radius. However when you notch the saddles you are affecting the radius. A poorly notched saddle will screw up the radius. For instance if you notch the G string notch too deeply you are in effect creating a sag in the radius. The ABR-1 bridge contains a lot of engineering yet they appear to be made from a mold rather than machined. I have no aftermarket ABR bridges so perhaps they may be machined. If they are that explains the prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hello Zentar. Indeed, and there is much more about the ABRs. Only the notch itself, could be talked about a day long. Improperly cut depth, width, angle, and so on. The main problem with these (and also with the retainer-wire version), that the saddle screws might eventually lift under string pressure, touching and dampening the strings in result. I have been through this with the GFS Nashville to ABR conversion kit. It was horrible. Settled with Faber - a very accurate desing, built to tight tolerances, and - mainly - with the intonation screws fixed at both ends: Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 You can see in Bence's fotos another potential problem. See how the strings leave the tailpiece and travel to the saddles. Look how close the strings are to the bridge just before they touch the saddles. Sometimes they do touch if the bend over the bridge is too severe. The tailpiece can be easily raised using the two tailpiece pole screws to make sure this does not happen. This is why some folks top wrap the strings. They don't want the tailpiece sitting too high because in theory it bends the two tailpiece poles more easily the higher it sits thus effecting the tuning. Notice how the longer scale Stratocaster style guitars don't use an ABR style design because they require more string tension. The shorter Les Paul scale length lends itself to the ABR design because it requires less string tension pulling on the tailpiece poles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 You can see in Bence's fotos another potential problem. See how the strings leave the tailpiece and travel to the saddles. Look how close the strings are to the bridge just before they touch the saddles. ... Every once in a while a question comes up on which way to put the ABR bridge on it's posts. The problem Zentar mentions is why the screw side of the ABR should face the pup - if the screws face the stop, the stop can't be lowered as far because the strings might touch the screw heads. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 You can see in Bence's fotos another potential problem. See how the strings leave the tailpiece and travel to the saddles. Look how close the strings are to the bridge just before they touch the saddles. Sometimes they do touch if the bend over the bridge is too severe. The tailpiece can be easily raised using the two tailpiece pole screws to make sure this does not happen. This is why some folks top wrap the strings. They don't want the tailpiece sitting too high because in theory it bends the two tailpiece poles more easily the higher it sits thus effecting the tuning. Notice how the longer scale Stratocaster style guitars don't use an ABR style design because they require more string tension. The shorter Les Paul scale length lends itself to the ABR design because it requires less string tension pulling on the tailpiece poles. The design and development of the strat bridge is so well documented in so many places that these last sentences are nearly laughable. top wrapping is nothing but preference, it effects nothing. As a defense against "bends the two tailpiece poles" well that's not something I've experienced. Ever. Or known anyone that has. At least, not caused by a good drop or like when we used to spin them over the shoulder and try not to mess up the hair thingy. "break angle" is an insignificant nit picking that started in the 90's. I've never owned a stop bar/bridged guitar that didn't have the tailpiece all the way down. I've never had a problem of any sort, never not got a gig, never had to stop a recording, never fired from a tour. Along with tens of thousands of other guitar players who also never had any bad experiences because the string could possibly touch or <gasp!> actually did touch the back of the bridge. Carry on. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hello! Problems come when You crank down the tailpiece. Then, not only the strings will touch the rear edge of the bridge, put also push the entire until forwards, which will bend the posts on longer term. I always maintain the same break angle from bridge to tailpiece, as it's from nut towards the machine heads. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Notice the thickness of the tailpiece pole screws vs the thinner bridge screw poles. The bridge has mainly downward force on it while the tailpiece has a significant sideways force pulling on it. Too much string angle over the saddle begins to exert side to side force which can effect tuning by causing the bridge to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Ok. I'll nicely ask both of you to tell me of the times you've had to abandon your bridge/stop bar guitar for another, recording or live, because you developed tuning problems because the pins bent. And from that point on you raised your stop bar because keeping it down "causes problems". I can easily point to the literally lots of dozens of bridge/stop bar guitars that I've never had any other way but all the way down, and I've never ever had to do anything about it and never had or knew of anyone else that had "tuning problems" because it was down flush. My current Les Paul is...15 years old, been through a lot of stuff in a lot of places, never had the bar anywhere but all the way down, it doesn't know what you guys are talking about. And I'll ask however many other guitar players are reading this to tell me of their troubles as well. I've been around an awful lot of guitar for an awful long time, and this just isn't part of my experience, so I'd be glad to hear of others having these "problems". rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 You won't hear it from here... Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The pressure is in the other direction over there. Cracked myself up. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 You can get a brighter sound using a brass bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 So yer sayin you have no such experience? rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. C.O. Jones Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The proof is on the photo! There you have it. It was so much tension that the TP fell off!!! Look near his foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 The proof is on the photo! There you have it. It was so much tension that the TP fell off!!! Look near his foot. The warranty had probably run out the day before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I've always looked at the abr1 and,based on appearance and materials, I've just accepted this issue of bending posts. I mean proper abr1's not Nashville bridges with their much thicker and harder posts. I have no evidence but I do remember a post on here about a year ago where a chap's abr1 clearly was leaning forward. Don't know about the cause. It just seems to ring true with me. My tail piece on my reissue (proper abr1) is all the way down but if the strings were touching the back I'd raise it. RCT might be absolutely right. No reason he shouldn't be. I wonder what the total resultant force in that direction is with 10 at standard tuning? As I'm writing I'm realising the wood those studs are in would give way before the studs bent. No? 1 thing I'm sure of. A casting is appropriate and would, I think, b3 better than a machined item the same shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 1 thing I'm sure of. A casting is appropriate and would, I think, b3 better than a machined item the same shape. Appropriate? Yes. But 'better'? Why? Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starpeve Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The design and development of the strat bridge is so well documented in so many places that these last sentences are nearly laughable. top wrapping is nothing but preference, it effects nothing. As a defense against "bends the two tailpiece poles" well that's not something I've experienced. Ever. Or known anyone that has. At least, not caused by a good drop or like when we used to spin them over the shoulder and try not to mess up the hair thingy. "break angle" is an insignificant nit picking that started in the 90's. I've never owned a stop bar/bridged guitar that didn't have the tailpiece all the way down. I've never had a problem of any sort, never not got a gig, never had to stop a recording, never fired from a tour. Along with tens of thousands of other guitar players who also never had any bad experiences because the string could possibly touch or <gasp!> actually did touch the back of the bridge. Carry on. rct I had break angle problems on an old beater I have and love, but not the usual things. This old Sakai has a really strange trem/ bridge on it. The trem is a self- contained unit that drops into a routing and has the spring inside the housing, all capped with an ashtray style cover that pivots up to re-string. Actually works rather well . The bridge is a strange version of a roller in that all the saddles are discs that are threaded and spin onto a threaded shaft, all differing diameters to achieve a bridge radius, and enabling you to alter the string spacing. Unfortunately, the break angle was so shallow that the high e string would pop out of it's slot with any encouragment. I solved this by ignoring the trem and stringing thru body with ferrules to give a much steeper break angle. Solved the problem but changed the way it played quite a bit. Nowhere near as 'loose' as it was, which was one of it's endearing qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I had break angle problems on an old beater I have and love, but not the usual things. This old Sakai has a really strange trem/ bridge on it. The trem is a self- contained unit that drops into a routing and has the spring inside the housing, all capped with an ashtray style cover that pivots up to re-string. Actually works rather well . The bridge is a strange version of a roller in that all the saddles are discs that are threaded and spin onto a threaded shaft, all differing diameters to achieve a bridge radius, and enabling you to alter the string spacing. Unfortunately, the break angle was so shallow that the high e string would pop out of it's slot with any encouragment. I solved this by ignoring the trem and stringing thru body with ferrules to give a much steeper break angle. Solved the problem but changed the way it played quite a bit. Nowhere near as 'loose' as it was, which was one of it's endearing qualities. hey Steve, did you pick up the Sakai on Oz ebay a few years back - if so I think I remember it cos it stood out as interesting.... yellowish thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The pressure is in the other direction over there. I thought that was how Peter Green got his "out of phase" tone? No? :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starpeve Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 hey Steve, did you pick up the Sakai on Oz ebay a few years back - if so I think I remember it cos it stood out as interesting.... yellowish thing? No, but that's the exact same one!! Colour and all. It actually belonged to a friend, I remembered him telling me about it over 25 years ago.he's not a player, and I recalled it a couple of years back and asked him what happenned to it. Would you believe it had been sitting in his shed all that time completely unprotected and exposed to all sorts of horrors. It looked dead! So covered in crud that I dismantled it, had to scrub it with STEEL WOOL toget it clean, sprayed contact cleaner throughout all the electrics, and it didn't even need a truss rod tweak!!! It is such a fun guitar, made in Japan in late 60's/ early 70's for Woolworths chain, as far as I've been able to find out. Linear switches, huge single coils, even a bound neck! Zero fret, you can bend the guitar about a 1/2 step with ease, it really is fun to play. Could be made of balsa wood for all I know, but it sounds really good as you could tell from that Youtube clip. It's ironic that I hear so much about guitar care and yet this freak plays so well after all she's endured. Kills through effects! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Very enjoyable thread folks. The ABR-1 bridge contains a lot of engineering yet they appear to be made from a mold rather than machined. I have no aftermarket ABR bridges so perhaps they may be machined. It is what we used to call "diecast" I think. But forum members correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Callaham makes theirs from solid billet... I have not used their ABR bridges, but their Strat and Tele bridges are the best I've ever owned http://www.callahamguitars.com/products.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Callaham makes theirs from solid billet... I have not used their ABR bridges, but their Strat and Tele bridges are the best I've ever owned Surfpup, a friend of mine recently had one of their Strat bridges installed and is raving about it (and he owns several Strats and has played Strats exclusively for many years). Steve, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I have to agree with rct. The stop piece on my LP is screwed all the way down and the strings do touch the back side of the bridge because of the steep angle. I've never noticed any effect on my tuning, intonation or sustain. I also think Farns has a point that the wood is more likely to give out before the metal post bends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 ......other guitar players who also never had any bad experiences because the string could possibly touch or <gasp!> actually did touch the back of the bridge. Carry on. rct That happened to me the other day. I thought it was touching, but it wasn't. What I ended up doing was adjust the truss rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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