old guy Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 i have several late 70's customs and none of them have the inlay on the head-stock have a 3/8 inch reveal on one side and 1 inch on the other end of the same reveal. I agree that is it probably the real deal, and i did do research and could not find any reissue of a 75 made in 2005. I am not claiming to be an expert on Les Pauls, because I am not, but over the past 40 years, I have owned a lot of them. I am just saying if I was going to drop a large amount of change on something, I would not want anything that was questionable, as far as year, authenticity, or anything. I would want to be absolutely certain what it is. There are a lot of Knowledgeable people here, and it has us all stumped, I pretty much think that it is genuine, and the patina if right for that age with the yellowing, and all the parts are correct. If i were going to buy it, I would want to look at in person and loot to see what type of tenon is holding the neck on ( long. short, or transitional), look at the wiring, take the PU off and look at the thickness of the face and just really examine the crap out of it. that is a lot of cake to drop down for something if someone is not absolutely certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 i have several late 70's customs and none of them have the inlay on the head-stock have a 3/8 inch reveal on one side and 1 inch on the other end of the same reveal. I agree that is it probably the real deal, and i did do research and could not find any reissue of a 75 made in 2005. I am not claiming to be an expert on Les Pauls, because I am not, but over the past 40 years, I have owned a lot of them. I am just saying if I was going to drop a large amount of change on something, I would not want anything that was questionable, as far as year, authenticity, or anything. I would want to be absolutely certain what it is. There are a lot of Knowledgeable people here, and it has us all stumped, I pretty much think that it is genuine, and the patina if right for that age with the yellowing, and all the parts are correct. If i were going to buy it, I would want to look at in person and loot to see what type of tenon is holding the neck on ( long. short, or transitional), look at the wiring, take the PU off and look at the thickness of the face and just really examine the crap out of it. that is a lot of cake to drop down for something if someone is not absolutely certain. I agree. But also, if it is sure that it IS an actual Gibson LPC, but you don't know what particular LPC it is (including year, etc.), then average or standard pricing might be a consideration as well. I guess really, the bottom line from where I sit and type is it LOOKS like the real deal, but more and better photos (such as pics of some of the stuff you mention) would be in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelma1 Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 when I finally see it I'll check out everything with details. Thanks folks cause I didn't even expect such a response. That opened my wiev on the subject. I appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Fake.. 100 % What? This would mean all of the 1970's Gibson Les Paul guitars were fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 What? This would mean all of the 1970's Gibson Les Paul guitars were fakes. Sure.. they really were afterthoughts of Gibson.. the first post of the so called angus is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Hello! The problem is the following. The "00 XXXXXX" serial number format of model year 1976 looks like that: This is very different from today's format - which can be seen on this guitar. Also, the ABR-1 bridge was phased out during 1975, but this instrument is still equipped with it. The headstock angle (14 degrees), the pointy cutaway, and all the other details clearly indicate this guitar was made between 1970-1975. I guess, it has a pancaked body too. (Just open up the control cavity to see how many layers of wood the body is made of). ...but the serial number is a big puzzle here. I would really like to see detailed, high resolution pictures. Maybe the neck has got refinished, - and meanwhile - someone added two more digits to the 6-digit serial of pre-'75 instruments? But why? This is the pre-'75 serial format: Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 The transition period lasted several years. You may find 1976's with eight-digit impressed serial numbers as well as 1979's made in Kalamazoo using the pre-1975 six digit system. Even Gibson refers to the decals as "typically" during 1975 to 1977, not as "exclusively". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Hello Capmaster! I can imagine that. However, the presence of ABR-1 dates it prior to 1976. Best wishes... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Not sure, but the ABR thing might be a transition phenomenon, too. Perhaps their stock of the gold-plated ones lasted longer until they were used up. One can never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 The transition period lasted several years. You may find 1976's with eight-digit impressed serial numbers as well as 1979's made in Kalamazoo using the pre-1975 six digit system. Even Gibson refers to the decals as "typically" during 1975 to 1977, not as "exclusively". If this is true, that would explain it, and make everything fit. But my info tells me, that the embossed seriel#s that occured alongside the decal #s didn't follow the same format as the decal ones, but rather the 6 digit format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 This is very different from today's format - which can be seen on this guitar. Also, the ABR-1 bridge was phased out during 1975, but this instrument is still equipped with it. The headstock angle (14 degrees), the pointy cutaway, and all the other details clearly indicate this guitar was made between 1970-1975. I guess, it has a pancaked body too. (Just open up the control cavity to see how many layers of wood the body is made of). ...but the serial number is a big puzzle here. I would really like to see detailed, high resolution pictures. Maybe the neck has got refinished, - and meanwhile - someone added two more digits to the 6-digit serial of pre-'75 instruments? But why? Cheers... Bence Great post. I have a question for you: I have always wondered about the pointy cutaway, as in not just when did it stop, but it SEEMS like it could be a Kalamazoo thing. It SEEMS to me that the pointy and the "regular" were both happening at the same time (for a time)...anyway, evidence seems to lean toward it being a way to tell where it was made, but I just never heard or read anything more than it existed for a time. I thought about the idea of Gibson putting a "new" seriel# on it, however, that would mean the guitar went back to Gibson at some point. Seems a long shot. As far as the number being "todays format", we have to know where that number came from in the first place. To me, it seems just as likely they used an impressed number for the '76 format as they made an accurate "75" reissue in 2005. The number has got me stumped, that's for sure. As for the details, I agree, but all I can see in the photos is an accurate (I think) headstock shape/inlay, correct body carve and pointy horn for 70's era. I would be afraid to date a Gibby by the bridge, except to say a Nashville bridge would mean "no earlier than". Was there ever a time when no Gibby had an ABR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Couldn't find another one with ABR-1 and embossed eight-digit number, but take a look at these: http://shop.guitarpoint.de/de/Gibson/1976-Gibson-Les-Paul-Custom-Ebony1 http://shop.guitarpoint.de/de/Gibson/1976-Gibson-Les-Paul-Custom-Ebony WARNING: Better don't look around further on the guitarpoint website - might cause GAS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Hello Stein! As we know Customs were regular run instruments back in the day, not Custom Shop models as now. I know, that ABR-1 wasn't discontinued at all, but sometime during 1975 it was changed to the Nashville unit on Les Pauls. The 1975 model year catalogue still shows a picture of a Custom with the ABR-1 bridge. I googled 1976 Customs, and haven't found one with an ABR-1. It came back when the Custom Shop started doing Les Paul Reissues. Hard to tell when the pointy cutaway first appeared (1969/70?), but it lasted until 1983 - which is around the time the Kalamazoo Plant was shut down. You might be right, when saying these two things are connected. Those 70s Customs have lots of tiny, almost unnoticable peculiarities. Even, the carving of the top is different than on an instrument made before and after that decade. These don't have that slight valley around the perimeter, instead the arch ramps up from the binding. Interesting case for sure. Whatever is the story behind the serial, the guitar is genuine. Pot codes might help with dating it. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Hello Capmaster! The guitar in first Your link has the 1976 serial numbers in the correct form, and ABR-1 bridge: The second one is even more interesting: 6-digit (pre-'75) serial number format, and Nashville unit. That proves You are right: this decade is messy indeed! :D Best wishes... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 You name it - that's what I wanted to say! I guess that Jon S. from Gibson Customer Service chiming in here would indeed be of help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I love a good guitar mystery. I have put WAY too much thought into it, but it's a fun thing. Likely, we will never know, and since it isn't our guitar, I don't see Gibson getting too involved. And likely also, we will never see more pics or be in a position where we are asked. So, here is MY thought: I think, the most likely is that it started life as a decal serial#, but was repaired and embossed with the same, correct serial#. 1) Can't find any evidence of an 8 digit # that would be these numbers. Numbers pressed in at 8 digits would, or should always be with a date code (excepting numbers starting with 94xxxxxx). Of corse, 00xxxxxx doesn't work either. 2) For the above, adding numbers would assume it started with one "0". That doesn't work. 3) From what I can tell, the stamping doesn't look exactly like others. They are placed higher than typical for a 70's era stamp. I think. Also, the "Made in U.S.A seems a little more crooked than it seems it should be. The headstock, while I think the crazing around the inlay and logo is more or less consistent with others, the craze lines (cracks) that run all thorough see to me, to be evidence of an over-spray. Combine that with the fact that the back looks pretty darn near perfect, and it adds up. It's weak evidence, but it points that way. And of corse, all the details that one could see in these photos are consistent with "76". Or if you would rather, the seriel number adds up correct if you follow the decal format, and the guitar, Best guess: it's a '76 with re-applied serial #. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelma1 Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 Unfortunately I still can't match in time to pay a visit to the seller to look , touch and feel the guitar. Maybe next week. I'll let you know then. Thanks guys for such a huge responce that I even wouldn't expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josee Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 EUREKA! Quoted from http://archive.gibson.com/Files/downloads/bluebook/GibsonSERIALNUMBERS.pdf "During the period from 1975-1977 Gibson used a transfer that had eight digit numbers, the first two indicate the year, 99=1975, 00=1976 and 06=1977, the following six digits are in the 100000 to 200000 range. MADE IN USA were also included on the transfer and some models had LIMITED EDITION also applied. A few bolt on neck instruments had a date ink stamped on the heel area." So the relevant Gibson Les Paul Custom in Ebony from http://olx.pl/oferta/okazja-gibson-les-paul-custom-usa-CID751-IDbFgN9.html#17673b17cc was made in 1976. Argh... No wonder where the counterfeiters get their serial numbers. My question: why is the Bluebook made available to the public? There's too much detail in there imo... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Argh... No wonder where the counterfeiters get their serial numbers. My question: why is the Bluebook made available to the public? There's too much detail in there imo... :( Hello! They can get it from everywhere. The net is loaded with photos. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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